Democrat campaign promises to tax the rich! we heard it all before!

[top gun]

USMC the Almighty;14556]You make a decent argument, but I still believe that the tax system is unfairly biased against those who earn more money.

We can agree to disagree.

And this is our fundamental disagreement. I, like this country's Founders, believe firmly in the concept of self-responsibility. This is not mutually exclusive with the idea of helping people, but the federal government is NEVER the solution to social issues. Everything the federal government gets involved in just becomes slower, inefficient, and expensive.

This is why I support charity and faith-based programs. It should come as no surprise that, for this reason, conservative individuals and capitalist countries are more charitable. Conservatives and capitalists believe in personally helping one another out through direct action. Liberals and other big-government countries have this feeling that the government will take care of everything and the government is the source of every solution.

This is the fundamental departure of ideals. I believe that the government which governs least, governs best. You believe that the government that governs most governs best.

You are right this is where we part ways. I'm emphatically against the American people being put at the mercy of the church when they need help. The church with today's population just absolutely could never handle the load and if left only to them they would do a 1000 times worse job than the government know matter what flaws may be in the current system. Remember the Reverend Jim Baker... PTL TV network, and Heritage USA theme park???

Social Security was nothing more than another one of FDR's "reform" measures in attempting to create a welfare state of perpetual dependence on the government. A lot like today's Democratic party.

And it makes sense. The Democrats depend on this impoverished bracket (the "lazy bums" as steveox refers to them) to vote for them. So they really have no incentive to get these people out of poverty. Because once they start making money, and paying taxes, well -- that's when people start moving right.

I hate to see people write stuff like this because it is so unfair and completely untrue. Social security was never meant as a major retirement plan nor was is some welfare for bums. Social Security was designed the same way a "Christmas Fund Account" is. You pay into it your whole working life (YOUR OWN MONEY) and you can't draw from it until Christmas or in this case RETIREMENT. It was developed as a self enforced savings plan to give some small measure of income to help prevent poverty stricken old age.

The fact that the government has raided the fund so many time that if it's not shored up some while the baby boomers move through it will face shortfalls is certainly no indication that the plan is bad.

That's like saying if I rob the hen house and eat all the chickens I have a right to complain about the lack of eggs for breakfast.

Of course, but you always have to keep the intent of the Founders in mind. If nothing else, they stood for limited federal government. It was most certainly never the intention of the Founders to have a state where the top 1% of the country pays for themselves and the lower third of the country, for example.

Read Jefferson. He wanted a country where everyone built nice families, worked with their own land out on the farm, and made a good, decent living with absolutely no interference from the federal government.

The Founders would absolutely hate welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and all these other big-gov't programs, but moreso they would fear that this is the beginning of the one thing they unanimously wanted to avoid: a large federal government that could potentially deteriorate into tyranny.

Come on... We don't really know any of this to be true. People change with the times. It's like saying the Founding Fathers would hate automobiles because they loved their horses.

So you support cutting taxes?

I support the Democrats version of "pay as you go". You have to work at a balanced budget. If you want to spend more over here... then you have to find a place somewhere else to cut.

 

[DrWho]

Remember Bill Clinton said he promised to raise taxes on people making $200,000 and more? Well after he made those promises when you elected him

He Raised the Gas tax 5 cents a gallon more.
Raised the BTU tax 10% more.
Raised Communcations Tax 10% more.
Raised the Cigarette and Alcohol tax 15 cents more.

Now who does that hurt? IT DOESNT HURT THE WEALTHY!!! It Hurts people like you and me the little guy.

Just like BUSH LIED too on his Tax cuts. He promised to cut taxes on all americans. But he really cut taxes for BIG OIL Companies and gave the wealthy tax breaks. But Middle class people didnt get a tax break.The Moddle class people didnt see a bigger paycheck.And they Continue to work longer and harder for less. So DONT BUY THIS FROM THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATES! Cause when they get in office theyre gonna turn right around and give everyone the shaft like BILL CLINTON DID!

I do believe the democrats. They will raise the taxes on those making more money. And they will raise a bunch of other taxes too. An they will eliminate the Bush tax breaks. And make some new useless social programs. So by all means don't vote for them.

And P Bush did not do as well as I had hoped in many areas. But I clearly remember getting a check from the government as a result of his tax breaks. And my income taxes have been lower each year since.

 

[PLC1]

I do believe the democrats. They will raise the taxes on those making more money. And they will raise a bunch of other taxes too. An they will eliminate the Bush tax breaks. And make some new useless social programs. So by all means don't vote for them.

And P Bush did not do as well as I had hoped in many areas. But I clearly remember getting a check from the government as a result of his tax breaks. And my income taxes have been lower each year since.

The Democrats will probably let the Bush tax cuts sunset, should they have enough votes or should they win the White House. They could raise some other taxes as well. They probably will increase spending, too. All of this is quite different from the Republican strategy of increasing spending, lowering taxes, and borrowing the difference.

 

[steveox]

Thats why we need a GREEN PARTY REVOLUTION!!!! Give them a chance to see what they can do!!

 

[PLC1]

Thats why we need a GREEN PARTY REVOLUTION!!!! Give them a chance to see what they can do!!

Or, better yet, a Libertarian Party revolution.

 

[9sublime]

Agreed PLC1

 

[Dr.Who]

The taxes on the rich are unfair. It makes no sense for a progressive tax in which a person pays more than another person just because he has more. If his lifestyle means that he is benefiting more than another then it makes sense. So if he has a bigger home and needs more fire protection than another person his real estate tax would logically be higher than the person's with the small home.

However, the taxes on the poor are unfair too. It makes no sense for a person who has nothing to go get a loaf of bread and pay sales tax on it.

But as long as we get caught up in the game of rich verus poor instead of realizing that the problem is politicians versus taxpayers we loose.

Everyone should pay a flat tax between 5 and 10%. This would limit the size of government. Everyone should get a standard deduction high enough so that the legitimate poor are not paying any tax.

There should be no special exemptions that everyone cannot take. Not even for being married or having kids. This is just uncle sam's way to influence social decisions we make and it's none of his business.

Once your money is yours then you should not pay taxes on it again. And if you want to give it away or leave it to your kids then that should not be taxed. When you use it to engage in commerce then it can be taxed.

The taxes we pay should make sense. Why should the spanish american war be funded with money on today's telephone tax? Not only is it over but it has nothing to do with telephones. When we need to regulate phone service through the FCC then it makes sense to have a tax just high enough to cover the costs of running the FCC.

The taxes we pay should be clearly described and easy to understand and track. I should know every time I am being taxed and how much I am paying and what it is being used for. Does that seem like too much to ask?

 

[PLC1]

Everyone should pay a flat tax between 5 and 10%. This would limit the size of government. Everyone should get a standard deduction high enough so that the legitimate poor are not paying any tax.

There should be no special exemptions that everyone cannot take. Not even for being married or having kids. This is just uncle sam's way to influence social decisions we make and it's none of his business.

I think that would work, but the government would have to be a whole lot smaller than it is right now. The first step would have to be to cut back the federal government until it was only doing what the Constitution allowed it to do.

Consider the federal budget currently being debated for the coming year. It totals 2.9 trillion dollars, or about $10,000 per person, children included. If the flat tax was 10%, the average income would have to be $100,000 per year over the standard deduction, and that average would have to include people with no income (children, homeless, etc.), so productive working people would have to have incomes much higher than that for the current budget to work.

Not that cutting back is a bad idea, but that would have to come first.

The taxes we pay should be clearly described and easy to understand and track. I should know every time I am being taxed and how much I am paying and what it is being used for. Does that seem like too much to ask?

I really like the idea of tracking taxes. Do you know where your taxes are going right now? You would have to wade through over 400 pages of budget data to know.

How many realize that the war in Iraq has already cost over $5,000 per taxpayer, for example, or that $1,770 each was "borrowed" from SS to sort of balance the budget to only a $3,000 per taxpayer in additional deficit?

 

[FRYandBENDER]

Everyone should pay a flat tax between 5 and 10%. This would limit the size of government. Everyone should get a standard deduction high enough so that the legitimate poor are not paying any tax.

Have you heard of the fairtax?

http://www.fairtax.org

Here are the reasons I support it.

1) It gets rid of the IRS. No more income tax, "death" tax, as well as many other idividual taxes and it also gets rid of taxes on businesses (They only include it in the price of their products anyways). With our businesses being able to make their decisions based on what is best for their company, and not on the tax implications, not only will we see our businesses coming back to America, but we will also see more foreign businesses coming here.

2) It is a sales tax that will be included into the price of NEW goods and services we purchase. With the taxes on businesses having been removed, and the fairtax added on, the price of goods and services will stay the same, and in many instances be lower. It will be fair to everyone be they rich or poor. When a poor person spends $100 dollars only $23 will be in taxes. When a rich person spends $100,000, $23,000 will be paid in taxes. The government will collect taxes only on what we spend, and not what we earn.

3) A prebate check will be given to everyone (rich and poor) at the beginning of every month, based on family size, to cover the amount of tax that would be spent on the necessities of life; food, clothes, baby formula, etc. This will ensure that the most destitute of citizens will not pay taxes unless they purchase something that is not a necessity; cigarettes, booze, rims, whatever. Also, since people will be getting their whole paycheck, there will be more opportunity for people to save, invest, or decrease their debt.

4) Since this will be a sales tax, there will be no loop holes for anyone. Illegal immigrants, drug dealers, those with enough $$ in the bank to not work and therefore have no income to tax, etc. will all be taxed like every other American.

There are a lot more details on the website. Virtually any answer to any question can be found there.

What do you think so far?

 

[ChairmanMeow]

Tax the rich! I’ve never heard that before!

 

[Dr.Who]

Have you heard of the fairtax?

http://www.fairtax.org

Here are the reasons I support it.

1) It gets rid of the IRS. No more income tax, "death" tax, as well as many other idividual taxes and it also gets rid of taxes on businesses (They only include it in the price of their products anyways). With our businesses being able to make their decisions based on what is best for their company, and not on the tax implications, not only will we see our businesses coming back to America, but we will also see more foreign businesses coming here.

2) It is a sales tax that will be included into the price of NEW goods and services we purchase. With the taxes on businesses having been removed, and the fairtax added on, the price of goods and services will stay the same, and in many instances be lower. It will be fair to everyone be they rich or poor. When a poor person spends $100 dollars only $23 will be in taxes. When a rich person spends $100,000, $23,000 will be paid in taxes. The government will collect taxes only on what we spend, and not what we earn.

3) A prebate check will be given to everyone (rich and poor) at the beginning of every month, based on family size, to cover the amount of tax that would be spent on the necessities of life; food, clothes, baby formula, etc. This will ensure that the most destitute of citizens will not pay taxes unless they purchase something that is not a necessity; cigarettes, booze, rims, whatever. Also, since people will be getting their whole paycheck, there will be more opportunity for people to save, invest, or decrease their debt.

4) Since this will be a sales tax, there will be no loop holes for anyone. Illegal immigrants, drug dealers, those with enough $$ in the bank to not work and therefore have no income to tax, etc. will all be taxed like every other American.

There are a lot more details on the website. Virtually any answer to any question can be found there.

What do you think so far?

I didn't actually go to the website but you mention some interesting things. However, if all taxes were sales tax would that mean that things like fire protection were paid for with taxes on the kinds of things that one buys in the store. So the really wealthy single guy who lives in the vintage wood frame mansion has a high fire risk but buys very little to support the fire department that protects him. Meanwhile the average family of 4 living in a brick apartment building with the latest in smoke alarms and sprinklers buys a ton of groceries per week and ends up paying more for fire protection.

I suppose that a tax system that included a variety of taxes (sales, income, real estate, direct billing) would end up being more balanced and fair.

 

[PLC1]

I didn't actually go to the website but you mention some interesting things. However, if all taxes were sales tax would that mean that things like fire protection were paid for with taxes on the kinds of things that one buys in the store. So the really wealthy single guy who lives in the vintage wood frame mansion has a high fire risk but buys very little to support the fire department that protects him. Meanwhile the average family of 4 living in a brick apartment building with the latest in smoke alarms and sprinklers buys a ton of groceries per week and ends up paying more for fire protection.

I suppose that a tax system that included a variety of taxes (sales, income, real estate, direct billing) would end up being more balanced and fair.

Doesn't that single guy living in the vintage wood frame mansion have to pay the fair tax on the mansion? My understanding is that the tax covers everything, including real estate.

 

[steveox]

The Only Sales tax id support is Luxery Sales tax. Like 10% Extra whern you spend on Jewlery Gold & Diamond Watches,Gold or Diamond Necklaces,Cars thats over $40,000,Yachts, Mink Fur Coats,Private Planes,Suits over $500 and Homes over $500,000.Thats the sales tax i support

 

[FRYandBENDER]

Sorry, duplicate.

 

[FRYandBENDER]

I didn't actually go to the website but you mention some interesting things. However, if all taxes were sales tax would that mean that things like fire protection were paid for with taxes on the kinds of things that one buys in the store. So the really wealthy single guy who lives in the vintage wood frame mansion has a high fire risk but buys very little to support the fire department that protects him. Meanwhile the average family of 4 living in a brick apartment building with the latest in smoke alarms and sprinklers buys a ton of groceries per week and ends up paying more for fire protection.

I suppose that a tax system that included a variety of taxes (sales, income, real estate, direct billing) would end up being more balanced and fair.

I'm not sure I understand. Why would a wealthy single guy not buy anything? And for the average family buying groceries, technically they won't pay taxes on those groceries because at the beginning of the month they will get a prebate check, based on family size, to cover the cost of the fair tax for the necessities of life... like groceries.

Meanwhile, if the rich single guy goes out and buys expensive clothes, or a new car, he will be paying his share of the fairtax to the government.