Democrat campaign promises to tax the rich! we heard it all before!

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The top 50% pay 97% of all taxes, so the "little guy" doesn't really have a right to complain.

Personally, I have no problem with user taxes so long as it lowers the damn income tax.

Well of course the "little guy" has every right to complain. An earned income credit or a larger child deduction or college tuition deduction might make the difference between a child going to college or a family possibly buying a small home instead of forever renting or for that matter just more food on the table of a large family. On the other end you're talking about buying a summer home or another big boat.

This benevolent upper income group you're talking about pays a higher amount in dollars and why wouldn't they? It's an "INCOME TAX". The more you earn the more the dollar amount would be as a percentage of that income. It's not the dollar amount paid... it's the relationship between that dollar amount and how much you make overall. And if you're already at poverty level you shouldn't be paying any income tax... YOU'RE WORKING AND STILL IN POVERTY!
 
Well of course the "little guy" has every right to complain. An earned income credit or a larger child deduction or college tuition deduction might make the difference between a child going to college or a family possibly buying a small home instead of forever renting or for that matter just more food on the table of a large family. On the other end you're talking about buying a summer home or another big boat.

If everyone was taxed the same percentage (excluding those in poverty for you) then that would be fair, but that's not the case. There is no ratio. This is why all tax cuts benefit the rich because they pay the most.

For instance -- if you have 4 guys go out to dinner every day and the bill is $100. Person 1 doesn't pay anything, person 2 and 3 pay $25, and person 4 pays $50. If the owner gets generous and reduces the bill by 25% and thus the amount everyone pays gets reduced by 25%. Now obviously, the guy who pays $0 doesn't benefit from this and the guy who pays the most (the rich guy) benefits the most.

This benevolent upper income group you're talking about pays a higher amount in dollars and why wouldn't they? It's an "INCOME TAX". The more you earn the more the dollar amount would be as a percentage of that income. It's not the dollar amount paid... it's the relationship between that dollar amount and how much you make overall. And if you're already at poverty level you shouldn't be paying any income tax... YOU'RE WORKING AND STILL IN POVERTY!

I know you're a proponent of big government, quasi-Socialism, but one thing is certain: the Founding Fathers never intended for a country where people are forced to pay half of everything they earn to the government.
 

This benevolent upper income group you're talking about pays a higher amount in dollars and why wouldn't they? It's an "INCOME TAX". The more you earn the more the dollar amount would be as a percentage of that income. It's not the dollar amount paid... it's the relationship between that dollar amount and how much you make overall. And if you're already at poverty level you shouldn't be paying any income tax... YOU'RE WORKING AND STILL IN POVERTY!

Actually, it's a "progressive" income tax. "Income tax" really only means that income is being taxed, without defining any of the workings of the tax. Tacking on the word "progressive" is what makes the income tax do what you're talking about here.

Don't you love semantics?
 
Well i didnt see a raise in my paycheck.When When Bush became president i didnt see a decrease in my tax deduction witholds.

You have to fill out a w-4 if you want your withholding to change. Your withholding doesn't change just because your tax rate changes.
 
The top 50% pay 97% of all taxes, so the "little guy" doesn't really have a right to complain.

Personally, I have no problem with user taxes so long as it lowers the damn income tax.

BULLSH&T

the little guy works every year till june 4 to pay his taxes
 
USMC the Almighty;14355]If everyone was taxed the same percentage (excluding those in poverty for you) then that would be fair, but that's not the case. There is no ratio. This is why all tax cuts benefit the rich because they pay the most.

Being a good person I'm presuming you too would be against taxing people already in poverty.

There are tax brackets with higher income earners paying a stepped up rate that is true. But something that's never mentioned in these "unfair to tax the rich more" discussions is this. What about all the tax shelters available and often used by this group? I'll ask you this question... Are you taxed on your total income?

No you are not. You are taxed on your TAXABLE income. This is the part often forgotten. Once you have enough money to become "comfortable" it is then possible to shelter some of your assets "income" so it is not taxed at all. Even something as basic & common as the mortgage interest deduction is something not available to those of less means that do not have the money to buy a home and must rent a place to live.

These are just examples and I'm not against various types of tax reform. I don't however think it's a blatant raping of the rich as some might have you believe.


I know you're a proponent of big government, quasi-Socialism, but one thing is certain: the Founding Fathers never intended for a country where people are forced to pay half of everything they earn to the government.

Well comrade... LoL:D ... I'm not all that big on taxes either. I do stand up for basic social needs programs. I think they are necessary in our modern day society. I'll take Social Security for an example. There was a time when many generations stayed together in one residence (usually a farm) and took care of each other. As times changed and city life became more the norm families started separating by generation more and more and we had a rampant outbreak of poverty stricken old age where the elderly were in many cases living on the streets homeless.

Somethings are just relevant now that weren't back in 1776. If we base everything as only being the right and necessary things for that time period and not today you can see there would be a problem. We'd still have slavery and women wouldn't be voting. So I try not to get too stuck in the past.

I agree with you though... a 50% income tax would of course be excessive.
 
You make a decent argument, but I still believe that the tax system is unfairly biased against those who earn more money.

Well comrade... LoL:D ... I'm not all that big on taxes either. I do stand up for basic social needs programs.

And this is our fundamental disagreement. I, like this country's Founders, believe firmly in the concept of self-responsibility. This is not mutually exclusive with the idea of helping people, but the federal government is NEVER the solution to social issues. Everything the federal government gets involved in just becomes slower, inefficient, and expensive.

This is why I support charity and faith-based programs. It should come as no surprise that, for this reason, conservative individuals and capitalist countries are more charitable. Conservatives and capitalists believe in personally helping one another out through direct action. Liberals and other big-government countries have this feeling that the government will take care of everything and the government is the source of every solution.

This is the fundamental departure of ideals. I believe that the government which governs least, governs best. You believe that the government that governs most governs best.

I think they are necessary in our modern day society. I'll take Social Security for an example. There was a time when many generations stayed together in one residence (usually a farm) and took care of each other. As times changed and city life became more the norm families started separating by generation more and more and we had a rampant outbreak of poverty stricken old age where the elderly were in many cases living on the streets homeless.

Social Security was nothing more than another one of FDR's "reform" measures in attempting to create a welfare state of perpetual dependence on the government. A lot like today's Democratic party.

And it makes sense. The Democrats depend on this impoverished bracket (the "lazy bums" as steveox refers to them) to vote for them. So they really have no incentive to get these people out of poverty. Because once they start making money, and paying taxes, well -- that's when people start moving right.

Somethings are just relevant now that weren't back in 1776. If we base everything as only being the right and necessary things for that time period and not today you can see there would be a problem. We'd still have slavery and women wouldn't be voting. So I try not to get too stuck in the past.

Of course, but you always have to keep the intent of the Founders in mind. If nothing else, they stood for limited federal government. It was most certainly never the intention of the Founders to have a state where the top 1% of the country pays for themselves and the lower third of the country, for example.

Read Jefferson. He wanted a country where everyone built nice families, worked with their own land out on the farm, and made a good, decent living with absolutely no interference from the federal government.

The Founders would absolutely hate welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and all these other big-gov't programs, but moreso they would fear that this is the beginning of the one thing they unanimously wanted to avoid: a large federal government that could potentially deteriorate into tyranny.

I agree with you though... a 50% income tax would of course be excessive.

So you support cutting taxes?
 
Also USMC, I notice that you harp on Clinton for cutting back the military...which is fair to a point because the military was down sized during his tenure, but the process was started during the Daddy Bush administration. Also keep in mind that there wasnt the need for as much military forces after the end of that little misunderstanding we called the Cold War. The GOP were in on that as well. Unfortunately, with our current administration and the wars going on, piss poor planning resulted in a real stretching of the military resources available to them. Rummy himself said you go to war with the force you have and not the force you wish you had. I will also point out that he said he wanted a smaller, more mobile military which is exactly what one has now compared to 1992-93. I dont think many would disagree that we have/had more than enough military resources to handle what was the real pressing issue of importance and that was Afghanistan. It was the diversion of men and materiel to Iraq and attempting to settle whatever score lil' Bush did have with Saddam that has caused the serious drain on the military.


There is a lot that can be blamed on Bush's policies, but is he really in charge of the price of beer in Alaska?

The point is, the power of the president is limited.
 
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There is a lot that can be blamed on Bush's policies, but is he really in charge of the price of beer in Alaska?

The point is, the power of the president is limited.

I didnt suggest that he was souly responsible for the price of beer, or anything for that matter. I was merely giving a snapshot of how the price of things have increased somewhat dramatically since Clinton left office, despite the notion that Bush decreased taxes and therefore the price of a commodity should be less. Some of it can be credited to inflation. But the point of the whole thing was to point out that things were cheaper in many cases under Clinton. A huge part of this is the increasing price in energy which the President does have plenty of influence on. Keep in mind that there are no roads connecting towns in rural Alaska, so goods must be flown in. When 7 years ago, the cost of jet fuel was much less than it is now about a dollar a gallon vs about $4 now. This comes from energy and foreign policy that is the responsibility of the President.
 
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