Creationist school's plea is denied by state board

[9sublime]

He was saying creationists believe it was 6,000 years old - those who believe in "intelligent" (lol) design can believe what they like.

 

[PLC1]

He was saying creationists believe it was 6,000 years old - those who believe in "intelligent" (lol) design can believe what they like.

I suppose it's as easy to believe in the 20,000 year old myth as it is the 6,000 year old one. Hey, just pick a number. Forget about all that science crap, carbon dating and such. I say it's exactly 31,567 years and 21 days old. God told me. Now, prove me wrong as I ignore any scientific evidence you may produce.

 

[top gun]

Isn't that exactly the idea behind the FIRST CAUSE -- that the first cause is the cause of EVERYTHING IN EVERYTHING?

In the beginning, there was void.....

I said one "could" even say... but I personally don't believe it.

Researching creationist theory such as in the highly publicized and laughable "Creation Museum" they go off in all kinds of tangents. When I find something I believe is provable as a deception I tend not to believe other variations around the same theme... unless some hard evidence appeared of course.

Hey people should believe whatever makes them happy. I just don't see creation theory as anything but a thinly veiled religious explanation.

Just my take...

 

[top gun]

I suppose it's as easy to believe in the 20,000 year old myth as it is the 6,000 year old one. Hey, just pick a number. Forget about all that science crap, carbon dating and such. I say it's exactly 31,567 years and 21 days old. God told me. Now, prove me wrong as I ignore any scientific evidence you may produce.

Well if around 6000 years old isn't the number then someone had better pick up the phone and call a whole bunch of TV Evangelists.

I've only heard that silliness about 100 times. Every time a show on the galaxy or dinosaurs or fossils or rock formations or anything and everything in the study of any science comes on TV...

I LoL and yell out to my girlfriend... How can that be 3 million years old the whole earth is only 6000 years old damn it!!!

 

[numinus]

I said one "could" even say... but I personally don't believe it.

Researching creationist theory such as in the highly publicized and laughable "Creation Museum" they go off in all kinds of tangents. When I find something I believe is provable as a deception I tend not to believe other variations around the same theme... unless some hard evidence appeared of course.

Hey people should believe whatever makes them happy. I just don't see creation theory as anything but a thinly veiled religious explanation.

Just my take...

When you think of all physical phenomena as FINITE AND CONTINGENT, as the natural sciences do, then the proof of creation becomes plain.

A phenomena that is contingent can either exist or not exist. That the universe exists at this very moment suggests that it could very well not exist at all, yes?

Since something cannot come from nothing (or you might want to phrase that the way the principle of conservation of matter and energy does), then the conclusion becomes inescapable -- the universe is CREATED.

Hard evidence enough for you?

 

[top gun]

Since something cannot come from nothing (or you might want to phrase that the way the principle of conservation of matter and energy does), then the conclusion becomes inescapable -- the universe is CREATED.

Hard evidence enough for you?

No I'm sorry but it's really not. We don't know... nobody knows how everything began. Through exploration, science and technology we've learned much... but not all. And we've learned that many things that were once firmly established as the way God created it or things attributed to an act of God to really be explainable scientific phenomenon. The world is flat state of mind.

You yourself run into the same argument you present with "you can't get something from nothing". If a God created everything... where did God come from? The answer is the same as the assumption in science... just always been.

Possibly the most basic elements in the universe just eventually matched up in a way that evolution from the most basic organisms to today became possible over millions or billions of years... we don't know.

But I still believe whole heartedly that creationism is an attempt to explain the unknown through a religious prism without any back up or test... before, during or after. It's not science and should not be taught in the context of being science. I'm in favor of church for creationism study.

 

[Coyote]

P.S. christians dont beleive the world is 6000 years old. that is a lie. most of us beleive it is around 20,000 years old. dont put words in our mouths.

6,000 or 20,000....when the reality is billions either figure is ludicrous.

 

[Coyote]

When you think of all physical phenomena as FINITE AND CONTINGENT, as the natural sciences do, then the proof of creation becomes plain.

A phenomena that is contingent can either exist or not exist. That the universe exists at this very moment suggests that it could very well not exist at all, yes?

Since something cannot come from nothing (or you might want to phrase that the way the principle of conservation of matter and energy does), then the conclusion becomes inescapable -- the universe is CREATED.

Hard evidence enough for you?

Numinus - is your idea of "creation" defined by the the creation of whatever began the universe? Something from nothing? Because...if so...I don't think that is what Creationists or even ID'ers are arguing - they are arguing an intellegence guiding the development of all life, including the creation of all species as they currently are.

And who then created the creator?

Why even, does it have to be viewed as a linear cycle beginning at creation? Maybe the universe always was? Maybe it is an endless cycle of birth-death-rebirth out of death? No beginning?

 

[Coyote]

hmmm...maybe the universe is God's body.

 

[arbitor]

6,000 or 20,000....when the reality is billions either figure is ludicrous.

once again you sit there and say "we are right youre wrong. the end" you state your beliefs as "reality." why are you on a debate forum when you arent even willing to debate? all youre cappable is saying "we're right becuase we have the most popular belief." you know what? you claim that us "religiuos nuts" have no evidence and all we do is say we're right but youre no better.

 

[arbitor]

And who then created the creator?

nobody. it is beyond our comprehension. do you honestly think humans can ever truly know everything?

Why even, does it have to be viewed as a linear cycle beginning at creation? Maybe the universe always was? Maybe it is an endless cycle of birth-death-rebirth out of death? No beginning?[/QUOTE]

then try to explain the soul. oh yeah, i forgot. you must not beleive in the soul and you probably think that all we are, are biological robots that think we have a soul when in reality all we are is a temporary chemical reaction in the infinate cosmos. thats comforting. i think i will stick with trusting god. not only becuase it is easier to beleive but it can explain everything in existence. all atheism can lead to is a world without morals. we are here for a reason. thats what i beleive. science cannot explain the universe or existence and it never will.

 

[9sublime]

And who then created the creator?

nobody. it is beyond our comprehension. do you honestly think humans can ever truly know everything?

Argh! Your so close to understand why I reject organized, man made religion all together! If we are unable to comprehed the creator, why have you chosen to believe you can and follow a religion!? Don't you see the contradictory flaw?

You don't know ANYTHING about the afterlife, NOBODY does. Instead you have chosen to follow what other humans around you, namely your elders tell you, and follow a man made religion, CHRISTIANITY.

then try to explain the soul. oh yeah, i forgot. you must not beleive in the soul and you probably think that all we are, are biological robots that think we have a soul when in reality all we are is a temporary chemical reaction in the infinate cosmos. thats comforting.

It doesn't matter if its comforting or not - sometimes the truth isn't comforting - are you saying you are willing to reject the truth and make believe something to make it more comforting?

Anyway, I'm not saying we don't have a soul, I'm saying its beyond our knowledge and comprehension, like you have stated above, so saying we do or we dont is only an assumption.

i think i will stick with trusting god. not only becuase it is easier to beleive but it can explain everything in existence. all atheism can lead to is a world without morals. we are here for a reason. thats what i beleive. science cannot explain the universe or existence and it never will.

But why do you believe there is a God if you admit that very knowledge is beyond our comprehension? Because its easier to believe? So you admit you are willing to believe in lies if its easier? I think deep down, you are actually an agnostic judging by this post and you have just taken pascal up on his wager.

I'm an athiest/agnostic, and I live a moral life; probably more moral than many so called Christians. Explain that.

Christanity does not explain existence, it fabricates a story to fill the void of knowledge about existence.

 

[top gun]

Argh! Your so close to understand why I reject organized, man made religion all together! If we are unable to comprehed the creator, why have you chosen to believe you can and follow a religion!? Don't you see the contradictory flaw?

You don't know ANYTHING about the afterlife, NOBODY does. Instead you have chosen to follow what other humans around you, namely your elders tell you, and follow a man made religion, CHRISTIANITY.



But why do you believe there is a God if you admit that very knowledge is beyond our comprehension? Because its easier to believe? So you admit you are willing to believe in lies if its easier? I think deep down, you are actually an agnostic judging by this post and you have just taken pascal up on his wager.

I'm an athiest/agnostic, and I live a moral life; probably more moral than many so called Christians. Explain that.

Christanity does not explain existence, it fabricates a story to fill the void of knowledge about existence.

Very realistic synopsis and I agree with you totally.

One works hard at living a good and moral life yet because they won't buy into a man made religious sect and all the theory and proselytizing that comes along with it... they're somehow not as deep or need a spiritual answer to everything thrust upon them.

Religion and creationist theory has it's place... and that place is in a church of ones choice. It's not like they're hard to find or join. School should be a neutral environment not hocking any particular religious view.

 

[PLC1]

I'm an athiest/agnostic, and I live a moral life; probably more moral than many so called Christians. Explain that.

An athiest believes that there is no god.
An agnostic says (admits?) that he does not know.

Neither an atheist nor a theist can prove themselves correct.

I think there are a lot more agnostics than will admit it. As you said, none of us really knows.

But, if you really don't believe in religion, how do you measure who is more moral than someone else? Where does your moral code come from?

 

[top gun]

An athiest believes that there is no god.
An agnostic says (admits?) that he does not know.

Neither an atheist nor a theist can prove themselves correct.

I think there are a lot more agnostics than will admit it. As you said, none of us really knows.

But, if you really don't believe in religion, how do you measure who is more moral than someone else? Where does your moral code come from?

You don't have to be in any particular religious group to know right from wrong... good from bad... kindness from meanness. A person knows how they would want to be treated.