Capitalism works for Capitalists.

[dogtowner]

"The capitalist who invests or the people who do... nothing ?

"

Since when do the people do nothing. Does the small farmer do nothing,does the machinest do nothing?
Does the investor who calls his hedge fund manager or clicks an order on line and makes millions ;what does he do?[/quote]
The farmer, small or large is a capitalist and so puts himdelf on the invedtor side. The machinist who does not open his own shop and thereby put himself on the capitalidt side gets to be a machinist due tosome capitalist investing in opening that machine shop. The laborer trades his time and skill for compensation. The capitalist trades his money on the hope that thee us a need for his product. He risks where the laborer does not.

 

[manolete]

"

Since when do the people do nothing. Does the small farmer do nothing,does the machinest do nothing?
Does the investor who calls his hedge fund manager or clicks an order on line and makes millions ;what does he do?

The farmer, small or large is a capitalist and so puts himdelf on the invedtor side. The machinist who does not open his own shop and thereby put himself on the capitalidt side gets to be a machinist due tosome capitalist investing in opening that machine shop. The laborer trades his time and skill for compensation. The capitalist trades his money on the hope that thee us a need for his product. He risks where the laborer does not.

That's your opinion ,PAL!
The capitalist also buys out a business and sends the work to CHINA,PAL!

 

[dogtowner]

That's your opinion ,PAL!
The capitalist also buys out a business and sends the work to CHINA,PAL!

Opinion ? No just applying the definitions. Dont be mad about off shoring, once upon a time America was where work was off shored to. Bemoan the fact that tax disindentives have made it harder to foot the R&D to replace the now low tech manufacture with new high tech replacements that we used to be quite good at rolling in. Of course with the degrading of education and the inadequite workers it leaves you with it is nearly moot. But its good to know where you are really coming from.

 

[manolete]

Opinion ? No just applying the definitions. Dont be mad about off shoring, once upon a time America was where work was off shored to. Bemoan the fact that tax disindentives have made it harder to foot the R&D to replace the now low tech manufacture with new high tech replacements that we used to be quite good at rolling in. Of course with the degrading of education and the inadequite workers it leaves you with it is nearly moot. But its good to know where you are really coming from.

Government and all the genius politicians have an obligation to protect the citizens that live in the nation and have elected them to office.

The needs of the investor class can never take precedence over the welfare of the workers and small farmers.

Other nations which have huge populations such as India , China, and Brazil use their populations as economic weapons against other more advanced countries.
The usa can no longer produce cheaper and better ,but who is responsible ?

What are the workers and farmers supposed to do ? Slowly starve or wait for handouts from the investor class.

What kind of american would want that?

 

[dogtowner]

Government and all the genius politicians have an obligation to protect the citizens that live in the nation and have elected them to office.

The needs of the investor class can never take precedence over the welfare of the workers and small farmers.

Other nations which have huge populations such as India , China, and Brazil use their populations as economic weapons against other more advanced countries.
The usa can no longer produce cheaper and better ,but who is responsible ?

What are the workers and farmers supposed to do ? Slowly starve or wait for handouts from the investor class.

What kind of american would want that?

where exactly is that bit about protecting in the constitution ? America became great via innovation and we surrendered that which is what changed us. Workers can make themselves more skilled to lend confidence in investment to gin up high margin stuff. Thw 3rd world is not running around jungles and hunting and gathering. They are literate, know their math and sciences. Everybody loves small farmers but yiu are obsessing over them. They are actually in the best position these days since they quit growing corn and moved to higher margin crops like asperagus.

 

[Texas_tea]

where exactly is that bit about protecting in the constitution ? America became great via innovation and we surrendered that which is what changed us. Workers can make themselves more skilled to lend confidence in investment to gin up high margin stuff. Thw 3rd world is not running around jungles and hunting and gathering. They are literate, know their math and sciences. Everybody loves small farmers but yiu are obsessing over them. They are actually in the best position these days since they quit growing corn and moved to higher margin crops like asperagus.

Talking sense to useful idiots is a waste of time .... iggy is your friend!

 

[GBFan]

Other nations which have huge populations such as India , China, and Brazil use their populations as economic weapons against other more advanced countries.
The usa can no longer produce cheaper and better ,but who is responsible ?

What are the workers and farmers supposed to do ? Slowly starve or wait for handouts from the investor class.

What kind of american would want that?

Answer your own question ... who is responsible for that?

Your comment about India, China, and Brazil is true ... the use their population as economic weapons ... but at whose cost? Isn't it reasonable to assume that their people are the ones being damaged? Isn't it reasonable to assume that their people are even less satisfied than the Americans you purport are going to overthrow the government?

Where do YOU think the next revolution is going to be?

 

[dogtowner]

Answer your own question ... who is responsible for that?

Your comment about India, China, and Brazil is true ... the use their population as economic weapons ... but at whose cost? Isn't it reasonable to assume that their people are the ones being damaged? Isn't it reasonable to assume that their people are even less satisfied than the Americans you purport are going to overthrow the government?

Where do YOU think the next revolution is going to be?

Who is responsible ? Labor but were we shooting for cheaper & better or what you couldnt get anywhere else ? Henry Ford wasnt so much cheaper or better but he could make a lot of cars. Bell labs found ways to make things nobody else knew about. And the famous line from "the graduate" "plastics" was a grand skam homer that kept us ahead for decades. Ceramics heloed fill in when plastics ran their course of high to low tech but we dont own the innovation curve with them. Those weapons elsewhere are pretty happy as its a big step up over the prior generation but you neglect that has gone on forever. Revolutions are nothing more than one small group of rich guys replacing another small group of rich guys. Look no further than arab spring for this.

 

[GBFan]

Who is responsible ? Labor but were we shooting for cheaper & better or what you couldnt get anywhere else ? Henry Ford wasnt so much cheaper or better but he could make a lot of cars. Bell labs found ways to make things nobody else knew about. And the famous line from "the graduate" "plastics" was a grand skam homer that kept us ahead for decades. Ceramics heloed fill in when plastics ran their course of high to low tech but we dont own the innovation curve with them. Those weapons elsewhere are pretty happy as its a big step up over the prior generation but you neglect that has gone on forever. Revolutions are nothing more than one small group of rich guys replacing another small group of rich guys. Look no further than arab spring for this.

So ... you propose, because of the astronomic cost of our labor relative to other labor sources, that we can still be competitive IF we take advantage of our ability to create leading edge products. Those product would require significant research & development investment ... investment of money that is being consumed by the high labor costs. They require a sound knowledgeable education base that produces engineers capable of exploring leading edge technologies, an education system that the middle class is unwilling to bear their fair share of the cost for, and instead demand a tax system that unfairly penalizes the very people on whom you depend.

In short, you want your cake and eat it, too ... you want me, as a businessman, to invest my money in high-cost, high-risk R&D, contribute more than my share to the tax base so we have a sound education program, AND you want me to pay my workers exorbitant, and unnecessary, wages (because, obviously, I can get that labor cheaper elsewhere).

You don't have an answer ... you have a wish list. Talk to Santa ...

 

[dogtowner]

So ... you propose, because of the astronomic cost of our labor relative to other labor sources, that we can still be competitive IF we take advantage of our ability to create leading edge products. Those product would require significant research & development investment ... investment of money that is being consumed by the high labor costs. They require a sound knowledgeable education base that produces engineers capable of exploring leading edge technologies, an education system that the middle class is unwilling to bear their fair share of the cost for, and instead demand a tax system that unfairly penalizes the very people on whom you depend.

In short, you want your cake and eat it, too ... you want me, as a businessman, to invest my money in high-cost, high-risk R&D, contribute more than my share to the tax base so we have a sound education program, AND you want me to pay my workers exorbitant, and unnecessary, wages (because, obviously, I can get that labor cheaper elsewhere).

You don't have an answer ... you have a wish list. Talk to Santa ...

Well you got it pretty well wrong on all counts. If our labor wants wants to maintain Ozzie and Harriette levels it has to be literate, capable of math and have some understanding of science and then show up every day ready to put in a solid shift. If you have that calibre of labor again then perhaps its easier to consider investment here instead of Korea etc. Change depreciation rules back to Ozzie and Harriette levels and you lower risk by doubling the ROI period which can be helpfull in the competetive marketplace. Its hard to roll those dice on a good idea when the time to hit ROI is razor thin. This is how we could focus on high margin products that allowed for the level of pay you want for labor. And of course you will need to take a good hard look at those Ozzie days labor because while they did make good money relative to the 20s it was not the obscene levels unions used to kill the golden goose. Lborers did not have 30k bass boats color matched to their dualies and the like. Im just pointing out to you how America accomplished what it did, no fantasy.