California Proposition 8

[Mare Tranquillity]

Hey Mare! Nice to see you again..

BTW I said I took biology in college, not that I have a degree in it. However, many of the people involved in the AI industry have biology degrees and a keen knowledge of mammalian sexuality....and of its ability to be molded at the onset of puberty.

I agree that there is far far too much emphasis put on sexuality of all types, hetero included in way too many media outlets. If you look back at my posts I have lamented repeatedly about both hetero and deviant fixations on sex being equated with "love" especially. The two are not the same and many people not only don't realize this but have been trained to believe, via social pressures, the exact opposite.

In a way you have just made my case for me. We all agree that there is a known social-contagion factor in all human behavior...not just deviant sexuality.

So now that we are in agreement about that, surely you can understand why the majority of the voting public who heard about my daughter's accounts above and many others just like it might decide that it's better to err on the side of caution instead of political correctness when it comes to the deviant marriage issue.

I live in a community where I encounter gay and lesbian couples on a daily basis. In one town nearby where I shop a lot, I'd say about 1/3 of the populace there is gay, lesbian, or bi in nature and those numbers keep going up for two reasons. 1. Gays outside the area have heard that it is a haven for deviant sexuals and 2. More and more parties are thrown there for the youth in the area (in an area otherwise devoid of youth activities and hence youth boredom soars) inviting "bi-curious" to "come and have fun" with the GLBT community...And of course the bragging-rights in the culture of the local high school there pitches in..

So...

I still want one of you to explain, in detail, why your GLBT events cater to youth and advertise on TV and radio to vast audiences of young people and invite them to experiment with homosexuality at parties rife with deviant sexuals? One would have to assume they're not just there for the punch and cookies... but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Do explain "bi-curious" to me and how also people are born fixated either straight or gay..

Your question is disengenuous, you are starting from a position of declaring others "deviant" and I think that nothing that anyone says will change that in light of the number of pages you have devoted on this thread to making that "deviant" statement over and over again.

I suspect that you are bi-curious, if you had not been then you would not have been able to be talked into to experimenting with gay sex. Your own experience is what has convinced you that sexuality is easily molded and you are terrified of your own responses.

You lack credibility in this discussion, you tell stories that you claim to be true, but you don't provide proof. You have lied about your education (which you are admitting, thank you), and you have also admitted that your well-educated sister disagrees with you.

You start this discussion by equating marriage between consenting adults with child molesting--the fact that far more children are molested by heterosexuals doesn't seem to bother you at all.

 

[Sihouette]

Anything but answer the question right?

Try again.

Please explain how someone can be born bi and also somehow be "bi-curious".

Or is it your contention that everyone is potentially gay and only needs it to be "drawn forth" by contact with "their own kind"..?

I'm really authentically confused about the term "bi-curious" as touted by those who believe deviant, [yes ,it deviates from procreative sex], sexuality is innate?

Please help me understand? And also tell me why deviant youth-oriented parties are thrown inviting [implied: young] "bi-curious" people to attend?

I must hand it to you BTW, the "you are a closet homosexual "homophobe" trick works very well. People who are straight squirm at the threat of being labelled gay so if they think someone might label them that, they'll back away from any anti-deviant-made-mainstream debate they're involved in. Works very well. Except not with me because I don't care what label you give me. I understand homosexuals and where they came from so it doesn't bother me. I don't think they're bad people, only just people who don't fully understand where they came from.

I have worked in the AI industry and so I understand how sexual preference comes about and fixates. Luckily, my first few experiences were with the opposite sex, and very nice. Otherwise I'd be in the same boat you all are in.

We're talking about the meaning of deviant vs normal. You want the two words to blend together. I and the majority of CA voters want them to remain apart and have separate meanings. A stallion humping a dummy is deviant sex. A bull mounting a steer is deviant sex. Two women humping each other is deviant sex. The word "deviant" means to deviate from something and true to form homosexuals deviate from the purpose of sex between opposite genders for procreation. Deviants aren't necessarily horrible, just deviants that's all. And I'd like to keep their status as such given my knowledge of the social-contagion factor with any behavior in humans.

Monkey see, monkey do. Especially young monkeys..

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I see by your calm demeanor that you are not guilty of that which you accuse..lol..


In any event a response to this article on "Conditioning And Sexual Behavior: A Review" http://www-psychology.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno%282001%29.pdf with almost as many pages of references as the body, was that it was "inconclusive" as to the malleability of sexuality.

You have continually tried to equate domestic or lab animals and humans, so far you haven't managed to give us any proof that your putative connection is valid.

I agree that if you kept human children in cages and twisted their minds and bodies the way that you do with those poor animals, then you could probably get your desired response from a percentage of them. However, that isn't what is happening in the real world, in fact, in the real world there are no examples of your fears ever being born out. Even in prison where men are forced to have sex with other men for years, most of them revert to their previous orientation once they are free of coercion. If you were correct in the ease of sexual malleability then heterosexual parents would not have homosexual children and homosexual parents would not have heterosexual children--neither of those outcomes has been shown to be true.

If your fears were valid then one would expect to find enclaves of ONLY gay people or ONLY hetero people somewhere in the world down through history, but it's never happened.

This discussion is about consenting adults having committed relationships, not about people (gay or straight) who molest children. Unfortunately you seem unable to make that differentiation.

The heart-rending story about you daughter's friends is about child abuse, not homosexuality.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Anything but answer the question right?

The question has been answered many times and in many ways but it's never what you want to hear so you keep asking.

Please explain how someone can be born bi and also somehow be "bi-curious".

Being born bi-sexual is probably pretty common, but if you were born that way and never had a chance to experience sex with both males and females, then you might be curious about whatever you had not experienced, and thus you would be bi-curious.

Or is it your contention that everyone is potentially gay and only needs it to be "drawn forth" by contact with "their own kind"..?

Not my contention at all, people are born with sexual orientations across the spectrum from straight to gay. We need to stop judging people by this single characteristic.

I'm really authentically confused about the term "bi-curious" as touted by those who believe deviant, [yes ,it deviates from procreative sex], sexuality is innate?

Please help me understand? And also tell me why deviant youth-oriented parties are thrown inviting [implied: young] "bi-curious" people to attend?

Once again I think you are being less than truthful. You imply that these "parties" are just attempts at child abuse, when in fact I suspect that they are places where gender/orientation confused kids can go to talk to people who won't call them "deviants" and beat the sh1t out of them. I suspect that you would condemn all children to complete ignorance of sexuality in your attempt to make them be who YOU think they should be. I say, Tell them the truth and let them be who they are without the hatred and villification that the culture at large and the religious institutions heap on them.

I must hand it to you BTW, the "you are a closet homosexual "homophobe" trick works very well. People who are straight squirm at the threat of being labelled gay so if they think someone might label them that, they'll back away from any anti-deviant-made-mainstream debate they're involved in. Works very well. Except not with me because I don't care what label you give me. I understand homosexuals and where they came from so it doesn't bother me. I don't think they're bad people, only just people who don't fully understand where they came from.

I have worked in the AI industry and so I understand how sexual preference comes about and fixates. Luckily, my first few experiences were with the opposite sex, and very nice. Otherwise I'd be in the same boat you all are in.

You at least are out of the closet about your fear and hatred. You are also out of the closet about abusing animals for a living. I can fully understand your fear that others could do to children what you do to animals, but until they start putting them in cages (like the animals in the article you posted) I don't think rational people have anything to worry about.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Well Mare, I'll reluctantly have to agree with your assertions that Sihouette is indeed a "waste of time"...the only one fixated is Sihouette and the fixation is the "bi-curious". I've suggested that s/he get some excellent reading material, get off of his/her lazy arse and STFW {search the f'n web} and he/she continues to want someone to tell them the answer.

**BANG**BANG**THUD** hitting my head on the wall until I knock myself unconscience...LMAO

And the stellar 'light-bulb' moment is when I was called 'narcissistic'...maybe a dictionary would be most helpful as well as an open minded education!!!
When the confused continue to compare animal reactions to human behavior and make assertions that the two are one and the same according to learned behaviour...just shows the ability to stay confused and ignorant in their own deviant sexual understanding...This is how they want to stay and nothing, absolutely nothing will circumvent that mindset EVER! ROLTFLMAO

 

[Sihouette]

Yes, a very "reluctant" agreement there indeed ASPCA. And now I can "truthyness" to you inventory of personality traits..lol.


Mare writes:

You have continually tried to equate domestic or lab animals and humans, so far you haven't managed to give us any proof that your putative connection is valid.

Comparative psychology is an old field of study with many adherants.

Here are a list of some people who made careers in part out of believing that human animals [-yes, we're animals, care to debate that? ] behavior can be extrapolated by observing mammalian behavior:


Charles Darwin
Wilhelm Wundt
George Romanes
James Mark Baldwin
Linus Kline
Willard Small
C. Lloyd Morgan
Edward L. Thorndike
L. T. Hobhouse
Ivan Pavlov
John B. Watson
Frank Beach
Wolfgang Köhler
T. Schjelderup-Ebbe
Clark L. Hull
Edward C. Tolman
B. F. Skinner
Robert Lockhard
Donald Hebb
O. Hobart Mowrer
Neal E. Miller
Harry F. Harlow
Richard Herrnstein
Sara Shettleworth
Allen and Beatrice Gardner
Irene Pepperberg
Margaret Floy Washburn

But perhaps all those folks had their heads up their fannies and you Mare know [somehow empirically I assume] that humans aren't animals, mammals, and therefore subject to the same types of drives and motivations. We all like to think of ourselves as higher animals but we have police and prisons to show that we are not..

I guess all that milk that came out of my tits when I had my kids, my protective instincts for them and bleeding between my legs every month is all just a product of my being a "higher being" right?

Guess again...lol..

Don't let my brain fool you, I'm subject to the same vulnerability to classical conditioning as Pavlov's dog, only just maybe slightly more in control over it...maybe...

 

[Sihouette]

You did a fairly good dance around the bi-curious thing Mare. Kudos.

So according to you, those who are still exploring whether or not they are bisexual should be drawn out into experiences that would bring about their "full" sexuality right?

Then again, if I and hosts of other behavioral scientists and the AI industry are right, that all mammals [including humans] seem to adopt repetitive behaviors and fixations via a social-contagion factor, or at least a social-coercion factor, or at the very-very least an environmental influence.. then the bi-curious thing and the "reaching out" to youth who are naturally curious about everything anyway might take on more sinister tones...

Dare I say "Recruitment"? "Inappropriate contact?"

And if so, then doesn't the gay marraige thing, which seeks to mainstream homosexuality, also take on a dingy patina when civil unions would otherwise suffice?

*awaits being called a homophobe/closet homosexual*

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Comparative psychology is an old field of study with many adherants.

Here are a list of some people who made careers in part out of believing that human animals [-yes, we're animals, care to debate that? ] behavior can be extrapolated by observing mammalian behavior:


Charles Darwin
Wilhelm Wundt
George Romanes
James Mark Baldwin
Linus Kline
Willard Small
C. Lloyd Morgan
Edward L. Thorndike
L. T. Hobhouse
Ivan Pavlov
John B. Watson
Frank Beach
Wolfgang Köhler
T. Schjelderup-Ebbe
Clark L. Hull
Edward C. Tolman
B. F. Skinner
Robert Lockhard
Donald Hebb
O. Hobart Mowrer
Neal E. Miller
Harry F. Harlow
Richard Herrnstein
Sara Shettleworth
Allen and Beatrice Gardner
Irene Pepperberg
Margaret Floy Washburn

But perhaps all those folks had their heads up their fannies and you Mare know [somehow empirically I assume] that humans aren't animals, mammals, and therefore subject to the same types of drives and motivations. We all like to think of ourselves as higher animals but we have police and prisons to show that we are not..

I guess all that milk that came out of my tits when I had my kids, my protective instincts for them and bleeding between my legs every month is all just a product of my being a "higher being" right?

Guess again...lol..

Don't let my brain fool you, I'm subject to the same vulnerability to classical conditioning as Pavlov's dog, only just maybe slightly more in control over it...maybe...

Part of the stupidity is that you will not/cannot read accurately. I have said many times that one cannot reasonably extrapolate from domesticated animals--which is what you do. Your assertions are unsupported by science. I also noted that if you had children in cages like you have the animals that you could probably get a percentage of them to behave the same way that you make the animals behave. Pretty sick and twisted.

Your obsession with "deviant" sex probably stems from what you do for a living. Perhaps it would be useful for you to tell everyone on the site exactly what it is that you do, in great detail. I know what you do because my first career was in agri-business.

As far as your obsession goes, I can understand why you would be concerned that other people might do the same things that you because what you do is fairly disgusting. What do you call a woman who has deviant sex with animals for money as a profession?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

So according to you, those who are still exploring whether or not they are bisexual should be drawn out into experiences that would bring about their "full" sexuality right?

No, I didn't say that at all. People should be allowed to be who they are without folks like you trying to run their lives, free from child molestors, free from religious bigots, and free from societal opprobrium as long as there is no coercion involved.

Then again, if I and hosts of other behavioral scientists and the AI industry are right, that all mammals [including humans] seem to adopt repetitive behaviors and fixations via a social-contagion factor, or at least a social-coercion factor, or at the very-very least an environmental influence.. then the bi-curious thing and the "reaching out" to youth who are naturally curious about everything anyway might take on more sinister tones...

Dare I say "Recruitment"? "Inappropriate contact?"

And if so, then doesn't the gay marraige thing, which seeks to mainstream homosexuality, also take on a dingy patina when civil unions would otherwise suffice?

*awaits being called a homophobe/closet homosexual*

I can't see how the differnce between "marriage" and "civil unions" will stop child molesting. Most children are molested by heterosexual males, many of them married, and nothing in the law prevents a convicted child molestor from marrying again. So, it's obvious that you don't care about child molesting, but rather you are fixated on homosexuality. Pretty weird for someone who has deviant sex with animals for a living.

 

[Sihouette]

It's difficult to say how many children are actually molested. For those who are reticent to come forward by an opposite-sexed offender..and the perceived reception that would have and feared-repercussions the victim may harbor, I can only imagine that they might be even more reticent to report same-sexed abuses...having that taboo broken might be even more difficult to come to terms with and seek help for.

You ought to read up on the psychology of sexual victims, the Stockholm syndrome and connect the dots between them. Just for fun, factor in a homosexual element as further impetus to remain silent..

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

It's difficult to say how many children are actually molested. For those who are reticent to come forward by an opposite-sexed offender..and the perceived reception that would have and feared-repercussions the victim may harbor, I can only imagine that they might be even more reticent to report same-sexed abuses...having that taboo broken might be even more difficult to come to terms with and seek help for.

You ought to read up on the psychology of sexual victims, the Stockholm syndrome and connect the dots between them. Just for fun, factor in a homosexual element as further impetus to remain silent..

There wouldn't be the added stigma of homosexuality if it weren't for people like you. Child molesting would be child molesting, nothing more.

I am well aware of the Stockholm Syndrome, please do not feel that you have to talk down to me. And while we're on the subject I would like to have some proof of your contention of the town where you live being 2/3 gay people. I think that is another one of your wild fabrications born from a fearful mind.

If repetition is what cements one's sexual response, as you have postulated, then what does that say about someone who engages is deviant animal sex every day? Could that endless animal abuse for money be the genesis of your obsession? Perhaps you attribute to others what you see in yourself since you don't have any scientific proof of your accusations.

 

[Sihouette]

So I'm getting from you that homosexuals molest children also, right? Well I mean factually we know they do, just as heteros do...neither is OK.

That needs to be said right at the onset.

And we know that with heterosexuals, the motivation is the perps overwhelmingly having been molested themselves as children in the same pattern they themselves molest in. This gives credence to my argument BTW.

We can extrapolate therefore [unless you're going to suggest arguing that homosexual molestors are somehow a different "species" of human, not bound by comparative psychology..lol...] that homosexual molestors also molest in the same pattern they themselves were molested as children..

See where I'm going with this?


That's right: a social contagion.

Keep this in mind: Inappropriate sexual contact of children in any possible form is totally unacceptable.

With inappropriate sexual contact, penetration is the ultimate of a much broader inappropriate beast. It starts with comments, insinuations, innuendos and works its way into approach, grooming and finally consummation. Not all perps actually make it to the end stage, many times it just stays in fantasy form.

As example, take the woman at my daughter's school, the lesbian who just kept it to comments and the occasional pat on the butt. Her coworkers turned a blind eye. And because they did, in spite of some of those comments making it to the ears of staff members and other parents, the children de facto saw [picked up on, learned] that her behavior was not only "acceptable", but also protected by "the tribe". In other words, there would be an anticipated price to pay for outing her, for confronting her...so the kids do what kids do, adapt and survive..keep quiet and hope it goes away..

Now, just expand that thought one more rung up the social-contagion ladder. Lets say the new young generations see society upholding homosexuality, a perversion of natural procreative sex, the kind they are taught in school has evolved for millions of years to ensure the continuation of species, is suddenly "normal behavior" because they are now included in a term that once meant "two people for the potential of bearing offspring".. I'm sure the kids will stay quiet and adapt. What other choice do they have?

And so you see the potential for the social-contagion and why we should absolutely, unequivocally expect numbers of homosexuals within a given population to rise significantly in future generations. This gateway "inappropriate contact" of children will usher in a whole new description of what is normal when it comes to sex.

I think that needs repeating: granting deviants the right to marry outside civil unions will usher in a whole new description of what is normal when it comes to sex.

Some people celebrate this predicted rise in gays in a population. And I would call them closet perps. Yes, that's what I would call them.

Meanwhile others who believe that normal sex is something between opposite genders within a committed relationship of adults who were untouched until they made the choice to become sexually active, will find the new definition of "normal" as unsavory.

This is why so much emphasis was put on keeping youth virginal. People knew for millenia what the AI industry now banks on: that sexuality is moldable and when a child is approached without his or her initiation it almost always results in human suffering.

Forget religion, this is all about biology and psychology.

 

[Sihouette]

Here's ASPCA's comments about the lesbian telling girls in the 8th grade routinely deriding the girls for normal interest in boys, patting them the butts and openly lusting after one of the girls, [comments ASPCA just read and responded to]. See if you can see how "the tribe" forcefully makes something "normal" that patently isn't..

from two pages ago:

Well, at least I wasn't far from my suspicions of her ability to write a diatribe about other humans and it was loaded with bigotry & gross exaggerations about another woman who her daughter should look up to and not be looking for 'reasons to distrust/ridicule/put down/smear her good name' because of her 'MOTHERS' insensitive/bigotry/narrow-minded views of other human beings...OMG

Bear in mind that ASPCA presumably doesn't even know me or the woman I reported, she only read my accounts of what the woman was doing...

Instead of a potential molestor, ASPCA deduces that this lesbian was "another woman who [my] daughter should look up to" instead of someone whose "good name" was being smeared because of my alleged "insensitivity/bigotry/narrow-minded views".

That's exactly what I expected to hear if I'd have known what was going on and had confronted her fellow staff members in our community that has been whipped into shape by PC pro-deviant sexuality. It is as if gays enjoy a special untouchable status. Not that any perp like this woman would ever take advantage of that status...

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

So I'm getting from you that homosexuals molest children also, right? Well I mean factually we know they do, just as heteros do...neither is OK.That needs to be said right at the onset.And we know that with heterosexuals, the motivation is the perps overwhelmingly having been molested themselves as children in the same pattern they themselves molest in. This gives credence to my argument BTW.We can extrapolate therefore [unless you're going to suggest arguing that homosexual molestors are somehow a different "species" of human, not bound by comparative psychology..lol...] that homosexual molestors also molest in the same pattern they themselves were molested as children..See where I'm going with this?
That's right: a social contagion.Keep this in mind: nappropriate sexual contact of children in any possible form is totally unacceptable.
With inappropriate sexual contact, penetration is the ultimate of a much roader inappropriate beast. It starts with comments, insinuations, innuendos and works its way into approach, grooming and finally consummation. Not all perps actually make it to the end stage, many times it just stays in fantasy form.As example, take the woman at my daughter's school, the lesbian who just kept it to comments and the occasional pat on the butt. Her coworkers turned a blind eye. And because they did, in spite of some of those comments making it to the ears of staff members and other parents, the children de facto saw [picked up on, learned] that her behavior was not only "acceptable", but also protected by "the tribe". In other words, there would be an anticipated price to pay for outing her, for confronting her...so the kids do what kids do, adapt and survive..keep quiet and hope it goes away..Now, just expand that thought one more rung up the social-contagion ladder. Lets say the new young generations see society upholding homosexuality, a perversion of natural procreative sex, the kind they are taught in school has evolved for millions of years to ensure the continuation of species, is suddenly "normal behavior" because they are now included in a term that once meant "two people for the potential of bearing offspring".. I'm sure the kids will stay quiet and adapt. What other choice do they have?And so you see the potential for the social-contagion and why we should absolutely, unequivocally expect numbers of homosexuals within a given population to rise significantly in future generations. This gateway "inappropriate contact" of children will usher in a whole new description of what is normal when it comes to sex.I think that needs repeating: granting deviants the right to marry outside civil unions will usher in a whole new description of what is normal when it comes to sex.
Some people celebrate this predicted rise in gays in a population. And I would call them closet perps. Yes, that's what I would call them.Meanwhile others who believe that normal sex is something between opposite genders within a committed relationship of adults who were untouched until they made the choice to become sexually active, will find the new definition of "normal" as unsavory.This is why so much emphasis was put on keeping youth virginal. People knew for millenia what the AI industry now banks on: that sexuality is moldable and when a child is approached without his or her initiation it almost always results in human suffering.Forget religion, this is all about biology and psychology.

Baloney, no matter how thinnly sliced, is still baloney. Your fears are baseless as proven by the cultures who have accepted all sexual orientations in which coercion was not involved. Your animal abuse biology and your pop-psychology are baloney.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Here's ASPCA's comments about the lesbian telling girls in the 8th grade routinely deriding the girls for normal interest in boys, patting them the butts and openly lusting after one of the girls, [comments ASPCA just read and responded to]. See if you can see how "the tribe" forcefully makes something "normal" that patently isn't..from two pages ago:
Bear in mind that ASPCA presumably doesn't even know me or the woman I reported, she only read my accounts of what the woman was doing...
Instead of a potential molestor, ASPCA deduces that this lesbian was "another woman who [my] daughter should look up to" instead of someone whose "good name" was being smeared because of my alleged "insensitivity/bigotry/narrow-minded views".That's exactly what I expected to hear if I'd have known what was going on and had confronted her fellow staff members in our community that has been whipped into shape by PC pro-deviant sexuality. It is as if gays enjoy a special untouchable status. Not that any perp like this woman would ever take advantage of that status...

Your third-hand account is no more believable than your degree in biology or your town being made up of 2/3 gay people. Having deviant sex with animals for money every day tends to degrade your credibility.