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[Stalin]

Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

In the interests of democracy, I hereby present an introduction to some people, real socialists. standing for public office in November.

You are extremely unlikely to see this anywhere but here, and presented from outside the country, but at you cannot say you didn't know.

"...The Socialist Equality Party announces today that it has selected Jerome White and Bill Van Auken as candidates for president and vice president in the 2008 US elections. White, 49, and Van Auken, 58, have decades of experience in the socialist movement and the struggles of the working class. They are both regular writers for the World Socialist Web Site.

Between now and Election Day, the SEP will make the case for socialism. It will explain the necessity for and encourage the development of mass popular struggles against capitalism and militarism. The SEP will point out that the fundamental issues facing working people—economic crisis, social inequality, war, and attacks on democratic rights—can be addressed only through a break with the Democrats and Republicans, the corporate-controlled parties of big business. The SEP will call on American workers to reject the national chauvinism promoted by these pro-imperialist parties and embrace a program of international working class solidarity.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/elec-s13.shtml

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

This isn't just socialism, its International Socialism that they are proposing....

Since you didn't actually post their party platform, I'm guessing its the standard recipe for Socialism... Abolition of Private Property, the creation of a "Ruling" class to see over the proletariat and decide for them what the "Common Good" will be... Sacrifice of Individual Liberties... Nationalization of industry... etc.

None of this has ever worked before, always results in "unforeseen" disaster, and it would require that we completely abandon the Constitution of the United States to follow the Socialist Doctrine.

Stalin, perhaps you would like to debate the merits of Socialism vs. Capitalism? I have a thread around here for just that purpose but had no takers... I'd be glad to have that discussion with you if you are so inclined.

 

[Stalin]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

...er..the web page I posted has the three specific points on which the party is campaigning..and with which you appear to be sympathetic

The central issues that confront the working class in this election are:

1. The world economic crisis

The United States and much of the world are already entering into recession. The living conditions of working people are deteriorating. Families are being kicked out of their homes, the cost of goods is rising, wages are declining, and unemployment is soaring. This crisis is adding to what is already a staggering level of social inequality.

The present crisis exposes the failure of the capitalist system. It has laid bare enormous levels of corruption and incompetence. But beyond the greed and criminality of corporate executives, the crisis is the product of a protracted decay in the global position of American capitalism. The American ruling class has no response but to attack the working class, while attempting to seize control of the world’s resources.

The propagandists of big business pay endless tributes to capitalism and the infallibility of the “free market.” This ideology, as stupid as it is reactionary, is exposed by the eruption of the sub-prime mortgage crisis that has brought the entire American and world financial system to the brink of collapse. During the past several months, hundreds of billions of dollars have been poured by the Bush administration, with the support of the Democrats, into privately-owned financial institutions. The bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac has effectively doubled the national debt of the United States. The cost of these bailouts will be borne by the working class. The sole beneficiaries of these rescue operations will be, as always, corporate executives and super-rich investors.

In opposition to the state bailout of the American financial oligarchy, the SEP advocates the transformation of the giant banks and corporations into democratically controlled utilities, operated to meet social needs, not private profit. It supports a massive redistribution of wealth to benefit working people, including vastly expanded resources for social programs, jobs, health care, housing and education.

2. Militarism and the threat of world war

The eruption of American imperialism is the greatest threat to the world’s population and threatens to spark a new world war, with incalculable consequences. The occupation of Iraq has now lasted for over five years, and the occupation of Afghanistan for nearly seven. These wars were not “mistakes” that were managed poorly, as stated by sections of the Democratic Party and media, but atrocious crimes for which the entire political establishment stands condemned.

Even as the election campaign season progresses, the US is carrying out further military actions. The US has begun bombing areas of Pakistan in opposition to the demands of Pakistan’s government. In its attempt to assert control of a key geo-strategic area in the Caucasus and undermine Russian influence in the region, the US supported a Georgian attack on South Ossetia. Both these operations have the full support of the Democrats and Republicans.

On the basis of the doctrine of “preemptive war,” the American ruling class has arrogated to itself the right to invade any country. It is responding to its declining economic position by seeking to leverage its main advantage against its rivals: the most powerful military in the world.

The SEP advocates the complete dismantling of the American war machine. US troops should be immediately withdrawn from wherever they are stationed, and a program of reparations, paid for by the American ruling elite, must be implemented to help rebuild societies shattered by American bombs. Those responsible for launching these wars must be prosecuted for the war crimes they have committed.

3. The crisis of American democracy

The last eight years have seen a bipartisan assault on democratic rights, in the United States and internationally. Words such as “Abu Ghraib,” “Guantánamo,” “rendition,” “enemy combatant,” “water boarding,” and “enhanced interrogation” have come to symbolize the American government’s descent into criminality and fascistic barbarism.

The “war on terror” has been used to justify not only military actions, but the creation of a police state apparatus in the United States, including vastly augmented police powers and spying programs without precedent.

The real purpose of the attack on democratic rights is not to deal with “terrorism,” as claimed by both political parties, but to repress any sign of opposition to the policies of the American ruling class. The fight for democracy, therefore, cannot be separated from the fight for social equality.

The SEP advocates the repeal of all anti-democratic legislation, the immediate closing of Guantánamo Bay and all other US military concentration camps and secret CIA prisons around the world, and the dismantling of the American government’s repressive monitoring system.

 

[Stalin]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

T
None of this has ever worked before, always results in "unforeseen" disaster,

and precisely just what would you called the current "global economic crisis" ?

Was it foreseen ? No it wasn't except by a few..ahem.. troublemaking socialists and commies; a fact now completely forgotten by our free market ideologues who mysteriously seem to have gone on holiday

Is it a disaster ? Yes it is and the current binge of looting described as a "rescue" will be the trigger for socialism to come to the real rescue just like it did in Europe in 1945, Russia in 1917, China in 1949 when it was needed to rebuild after wars, started by capitalists, had reduced their societies to ruin..

And please to not resort to the ancient lie that "Hitler was a socialist"

Koba

 

[Stalin]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

, perhaps you would like to debate the merits of Socialism vs. Capitalism? .

The time for debate is over.

It's time for action.

 

[Popeye]

Some new polls out this morning and boy do they look good for those of us tired of Republicans and looking for change

If these polls are anywhere near the truth, particularly Ohio, Florida and PA, McCain is done..that's assuming he's not already finished.

Ohio:Obama 53, McCain 41 Obama +12

Pennsylvania:Obama 52, McCain 41 Obama +11

Michigan:Obama 58, McCain 36 Obama +22

Minnesota:Obama 57, McCain 38 Obama +19

Wisconsin:Obama 53, McCain 40 Obama +13

Iowa:Obama 52, McCain 39 Obama +13

Indiana:McCain 41, Obama 51 Obama +10

Illinois:Obama 61, McCain 32 Obama +29

http://www.bigtenpoll.org/

Florida: Obama 49 McCain 44

Ohio: Obama 52 McCain 38

Pennsylvania: Obama 53 McCain 40

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1223

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

and precisely just what would you called the current "global economic crisis" ?

The fault of misguided socialist policy, plain and simple.

Was it foreseen?

Sure was... Bush, McCain and several other Republicans were ringing the warning bells and the Democrats managed to block all the reforms that would have prevented the situation.

The time for debate is over.

It's time for action.

Your fear of having a debate is based on your being incapable of defending your ideology. Not a big shocker there... Socialist don't like to be troubled with silly notions like Reason, Logic or Facts, those things tend to get in the way of Socialism progressing as an Ideology.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

Socialist don't like to be troubled with silly notions like Reason, Logic or Facts, those things tend to get in the way of Socialism progressing as an Ideology.

Of course they don't, which is why Vladimir Lenin called them "useful idiots".

It's pretty sad that all of these "socialists/communists" are too stupid to realize that one of the fathers of their entire political construct called them IDIOTS for going along with it!

 

[Stalin]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

T

Your fear of having a debate is based on your being incapable of defending your ideology

Not at all. It would be a delight.

Lets us compare ...say...Cuba with Haiti.

Your move.

Comrade Stalin

 

[PLC1]

New poll shows Obama/McCain in a dead heat

Presidential Race Tightens, AP Poll Says

The poll, which found Obama at 44 percent and McCain at 43 percent, supports what some Republicans and Democrats privately have said in recent days: that the race narrowed after the third debate as GOP-leaning voters drifted home to their party and McCain's "Joe the plumber" analogy struck a chord.

The race is getting interesting, isn't it?

 

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Re: New poll shows Obama/McCain in a dead heat

The AP poll is running closer than most, but races do tend to tighten up as they near the end.

The electoral polls are not near so close, however, and they are what matter in the end. West Virgina went back to leaning McCain yesterday. Congratulations. Ohio went back to leaning Obama after a week of being a toss up and Pennsylvania went firmly to Obama after have become a toss up after the third debate and then starting back toward Obama.

 

[Popeye]

Re: New poll shows Obama/McCain in a dead heat

Presidential Race Tightens, AP Poll Says



The race is getting interesting, isn't it?

Of the 14 polls currently listed at RCP 6 have Obama leading by at least 8%, only 1 has him leading by less than 4%...the AP poll. Obama's average lead is 7.3%, the AP poll is an obvious outlier.

 

[Stalin]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

Of course they don't, which is why Vladimir Lenin called them "useful idiots".

It's pretty sad that all of these "socialists/communists" are too stupid to realize that one of the fathers of their entire political construct called them IDIOTS for going along with it!

More scholarship is needed

"....Searching the Lenin archives, as well as books by and about Lenin at
Questia and NetLibrary, have not elicited anything either.

I guess what we are all forgetting is that Lenin did not speak
English…he therefore likely said something else in Russian, which,
over the years – as in that famous children’s’ game – evolved into
“useful idiots.”

Having searched his writings for any possible similar reference (I
tried "useful" plus something, then tried various synonyms for
'idiot'), the best I could come up with was “utter simpleton” – this
phrase was used in reference to President Wilson’s naivet regarding
the Treaty of Versailles. The quote is from a speech delivered at a
meeting of activists of the Moscow organization of the r.c.p.(b.)
December 6, 1920, from V. I. Lenin, Collected Works, 4th English
Edition, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1966

The exact quote is –

“Nowhere has the Versailles Treaty been analyzed so well as in the
book by Keynes, a British representative at Versailles. In his book
Keynes ridicules Wilson and the part he played in the Treaty of
Versailles. Here, Wilson proved to be an utter simpleton, whom
Clemenceau and Lloyd George twisted round their little fingers.”

And it appears on page 449.

It’s on the Web at –

http://marx2mao.phpwebhosting.com/Lenin/SMMO20.html

The context implies something quite similar to what has evolved into
popular use. I think it is not too far-fetched to imagine how “utter
simpletons,” likely used in reference to the Americans after the first
reference to Wilson cited above, mutated into “useful idiots” and was
applied to capitalists as a whole. This also agrees with what seems
to be the prevailing opinion that he had never actually said “useful
idiots” himself at all.

I hope this response adequately addresses your request. Please let me
know if you are in need of additional information concerning this
query.

Thanks,
ragingacademic-ga

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=135140

 

[primerib]

Military Army Times Poll

In case you missed this week's issue of the Army Times, here are the
results of the Army Times' poll of Military personnel regarding the
election (in percent):


McCain Obama
Overall 68 23

Army 68 23

Navy 69 24

Air Force 67 24

Marines 75 18

Retirees 72 20

White Non-Hispanic 76 17

Hispanic 63 27

*African-American* 12 79

Enlisted 67 24

Officers 70 22

*Somehow I missed seeing this in the New York Times. ** *

This is brief but to the point!

And Now:
For the award winning Act of Stupidity Of all times the People of America want to elect, to the most Powerful position on the face of th e Planet -- The Presidency of the United states of America .. A Male of Muslim descent who is the most extremely liberal Senator in Congress (in other words an extremist) and in his 40's. Have the American People completely lost their Minds, or just their Power of Reason ???

I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate Obama...

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: Socialist Equality Party Platform for the US elections

Not at all. It would be a delight.

Lets us compare ...say...Cuba with Haiti.

Your move.

Comrade Stalin

No sir... we compare Capitalism to Socialism. Cuba and Haiti are not ideologies... and thats what I'm asking you to defend is your ideology.

What specifically do you think the Government, through Socialist policy, can acheive that cannot be done in a purely Capitalist system?