Would Socialist Healthcare Be Acceptable If...

[Hobo1]

The US loves to innovate with new ideas - and inevitably must go back and fix the mistakes. Many countries have tried different types of government regulated health care. Why don't we look at which system works best - and adopt it in its entirety? ObamaCare is a mix of many ideas - made even more complex by Congress and the Supreme Court. It is destine to be inefficient and require modifications.

If we were intent on having a government health care system, I would have preferred a single payer system like Canada. Yes, it has it faults (ie, wait time), but at least we know were the devils in the details are hidden in advance.

I can think of a 100 different ideas for different health care systems, but no one knows if they would work. For now it looks like we are stuck with ObamaCare at least until 2016 and I am sure everyone will hate it more and more over the next 4 years.

 

[Saxon]

back in the USSR when docs were compensated the same if they saw one patient or 100 tended to see far fewer than docs seeing as many as they could reasonably see. not unlike why the five year plans always failed as there was no incentive for "the workers" to work.

cannucks are restricted to the bottom 35% of pharma based on cost alone. never mind the inability to support the needed diagnostic testing causing delays sometimes fatal.

You are comparing the USSR's healthcare system with our own??? What are you smoking? Their system was ENTIRELY socialist. Ours is not.

It is not the system that causes delays. It is assholes with tiny cuts on their fingers who are at fault. Basically, IMMIGRANTS are destroying our system. I should know. I once went to my hospital with blood pouring from above my eye as part of a hockey injury. I drove myself to the hospital, using my hockey sweater as a towel to collect all of my blood. I went to Emergency, explained my situation. I was asked to wait a couple of minutes because the doctor was busy with a patient. I was then told I was next, which caused a fucking PAKI to freak out and claim he was there before me, which he was. The nurse told him my injury was far worse. His injury? A tiny fucking cut on his finger which was covered with a fucking bandage. I lost it. I told him to 'get your fucking PAKI ass out of my country! You motherfuckers are destroying our healthcare with itty-bitty nothing cuts like that! The fucking bandage is fucking fine, so fuck off!!' The nurse had to calm me down, whilst the PAKI shat his pants.

Get rid of immigrants, and our healthcare system improves, with no wait times GUARANTEED!!! We never had problems with wait times until we opened the immigration floodgates.

 

[dogtowner]

You are comparing the USSR's healthcare system with our own??? What are you smoking? Their system was ENTIRELY socialist. Ours is not.

It is not the system that causes delays. It is assholes with tiny cuts on their fingers who are at fault. Basically, IMMIGRANTS are destroying our system. I should know. I once went to my hospital with blood pouring from above my eye as part of a hockey injury. I drove myself to the hospital, using my hockey sweater as a towel to collect all of my blood. I went to Emergency, explained my situation. I was asked to wait a couple of minutes because the doctor was busy with a patient. I was then told I was next, which caused a fucking PAKI to freak out and claim he was there before me, which he was. The nurse told him my injury was far worse. His injury? A tiny fucking cut on his finger which was covered with a fucking bandage. I lost it. I told him to 'get your fucking PAKI ass out of my country! You motherfuckers are destroying our healthcare with itty-bitty nothing cuts like that! The fucking bandage is fucking fine, so fuck off!!' The nurse had to calm me down, whilst the PAKI shat his pants.

Get rid of immigrants, and our healthcare system improves, with no wait times GUARANTEED!!! We never had problems with wait times until we opened the immigration floodgates.

prettu quick turning on the lamd of milk and honey.

you both seen and sewed up that day as thread is cheap..

have something really wrong and you will get a more.revealing view of the effects.

 

[Dr.Who]

if you refuse 65% of pharma and limit tx (especially if expensive) its easy to spend less.
but who is getting the short end of the stick ?

Well, its easy to claim to spend less. But when the costs that are hidden on the books or just shunted off the books to other parts of the economy are factored in then it is no cheaper.

 

[Dr.Who]

EDITED FOR PERSONAL ATTACK '

Does anyone wonder why people who make personal attacks get warnings and/or banned? My personal policy is not to report it when people attack me but only to report when people attack others. However, for the sake of the others who would be your next victim I have decided to change my policy. Reported.

 

[dogtowner]

Does anyone wonder why people who make personal attacks get warnings and/or banned? My personal policy is not to report it when people attack me but only to report when people attack others. However, for the sake of the others who would be your next victim I have decided to change my policy. Reported.

valid

 

[dogtowner]

The insurance company refuses to honour its contract.

you mean the contract negotiated (generally with the employer) ? they have no reason to.

The policyholder decides to sue... BUT, needs thousands upon thousands of dollars to take it to court, a court so corrupt I do not even wish to discuss it other than that you may rest assured many of your courts are in the pockets of the insurance industry.

surely you have proof of this silly accusation

If the entity offering the insurance IS the government, there is no reason to take it to court because it will ALWAYS honour its contract. It is illegal to do so. The government even hints at any refusal, it will lose power. Hmmm, which system is better again???? EDITED FOR PERSONAL ATTACK

google this if you believe your claim.

You would rather be at the mercy of a corporation out to profit from you as much as possible, even to the point of making your very contract with them null and void? You go right ahead. I'll stick with my 'socialised' healthcare.

those corrupt judges of yours are actually paid by the government you know...

Propaganda? The stories are real, and make very much sense. Remember, the medi'care' industry in the US's sole raison-d'etre is PROFIT. Nothing else. Canada's medicare system does not give a shit about profit, hence no such need for such corruption. You Americans love it when your fellow citizens suffer, as it means profits from your shares of the corporations. 'Ooooh, he's got cancer! Looks like a winner gentlemen!! Long-term needs, hence long-term profit! A toast to the bastard's illness! He's gonna make us stinking fucking rich!! Yeah!!! Let us pray the fucker's insurer doesn't find a loophole in their contract to get themselves out of this one! Crafty bastards!'

SMH

if by medicare you mean the govt program you are mistaken. it spends far more than it takes in.

if you mean private insurance they kind of suck at profit with a margin well under 5%.

if you mean the medical community well yes toey do pretty well, even yours up in the great white north, they dont work for free you know.

the rest is just nonsense.

does it ever occur to you to actually look into any of these claims of yours ?

 

[cashmcall]

When you hear people like Saxon speak of how great single payer is,..I have to ask myself why Canadians travel to the United States every year and spend $1 billion(numbers from the FDA) on American health care. Ask why Americans have more access to MRI and CT scan equipment and more of the new breakthrough drugs. Ask why Americans have better survival rates for cancer and heart attacks. Ask why more than one third of physicians employed by the National Health Service in Britain buy private insurance, and why six million of their potential patients in Britain also buy private insurance, when government health care is free. Ask why so many British citizens waiting for free surgery and cancer treatment fly to India to pay for it, and ask why no one, other than Michael Moore, is jumping on a boat to get free health care in Cuba.

Think about this..under single payer the Food and Drug Administration has no interest in research on drugs and supplements that would extend healthy life spans. Death from old age is not officially a disease. The FDA does not care if and when you die, as long as you are not sick when it happens. Admittedly the rigidity of the FDA's methods does not lend itself to such research. If a supplement demonstrates promise for extending life spans, the FDA would probably require a thirty-year clinical trial to approve it. If approved they would then require another thirty years of "comparative effectiveness" studies to make sure it works better than everything else. By then we would be dead, but the FDA will have kept us safe. If that seems ridiculous, remember all of the terminally ill patients who have died in recent decades while being denied access to existing drugs approved years later by the FDA. Something to think about...

 

[dogtowner]

When you hear people like Saxon speak of how great single payer is,..I have to ask myself why Canadians travel to the United States every year and spend $1 billion(numbers from the FDA) on American health care. Ask why Americans have more access to MRI and CT scan equipment and more of the new breakthrough drugs. Ask why Americans have better survival rates for cancer and heart attacks. Ask why more than one third of physicians employed by the National Health Service in Britain buy private insurance, and why six million of their potential patients in Britain also buy private insurance, when government health care is free. Ask why so many British citizens waiting for free surgery and cancer treatment fly to India to pay for it, and ask why no one, other than Michael Moore, is jumping on a boat to get free health care in Cuba.

Think about this..under single payer the Food and Drug Administration has no interest in research on drugs and supplements that would extend healthy life spans. Death from old age is not officially a disease. The FDA does not care if and when you die, as long as you are not sick when it happens. Admittedly the rigidity of the FDA's methods does not lend itself to such research. If a supplement demonstrates promise for extending life spans, the FDA would probably require a thirty-year clinical trial to approve it. If approved they would then require another thirty years of "comparative effectiveness" studies to make sure it works better than everything else. By then we would be dead, but the FDA will have kept us safe. If that seems ridiculous, remember all of the terminally ill patients who have died in recent decades while being denied access to existing drugs approved years later by the FDA. Something to think about...

I fail to see why it is that the notion of single payer has any appeal to begin with.
Much is made of simplicity in filing but its never mentioned that everyone uses the same forms and methodologies and have been since the 80's. It begs the question are these folks trying to conceal their desire to kill off the insurance companoies they find so evil ? Thats the only effect single payer has.

 

[Cruella]

I fail to see why it is that the notion of single payer has any appeal to begin with.
Much is made of simplicity in filing but its never mentioned that everyone uses the same forms and methodologies and have been since the 80's. It begs the question are these folks trying to conceal their desire to kill off the insurance companoies they find so evil ? Thats the only effect single payer has.

What's the point of insurance with Obamacare anyway? All policies will be the same. The only difference will be how much your willing to pay-out in co-pays.

 

[Hobo1]

Two Points:
1. My sister and brother-in-law live in Canada and really like their system.

2. I am past retirement age, so I look at death a little differently. Right now it is hard to die from ANYTHING. Rather, a lot of people are destine to lie in a bed in some nursing home with hoses up every orifice. That's not living, that is "not-quite-dead". It took 8 years for Alzheimer's Disease to finally put my Father out of his misery. God willing I will have a massive heart attack and die quickly. We NEED death panels - they would be humane.

 

[cashmcall]

I fail to see why it is that the notion of single payer has any appeal to begin with.
Much is made of simplicity in filing but its never mentioned that everyone uses the same forms and methodologies and have been since the 80's. It begs the question are these folks trying to conceal their desire to kill off the insurance companoies they find so evil ? Thats the only effect single payer has.

I agree...Bottom line ..the only way this works is if people have NO choice..

 

[Dr.Who]

Two Points:
1. My sister and brother-in-law live in Canada and really like their system.

2. I am past retirement age, so I look at death a little differently. Right now it is hard to die from ANYTHING. Rather, a lot of people are destine to lie in a bed in some nursing home with hoses up every orifice. That's not living, that is "not-quite-dead". It took 8 years for Alzheimer's Disease to finally put my Father out of his misery. God willing I will have a massive heart attack and die quickly. We NEED death panels - they would be humane.

No one is forcing people to get those tubes put in at present. If you don't want to live that way then don't get those treatments and get a document describing what you do and don't want.

Not only will a gov run system decide who will not get those things when they want them but it will in all ridiculousness decide who must get them when they don't want them. Then it will go on to create millions of pages of laws describing HOW and with what forms people will get and not get those treatments.

 

[cashmcall]

Two Points:
1. My sister and brother-in-law live in Canada and really like their system.

2. I am past retirement age, so I look at death a little differently. Right now it is hard to die from ANYTHING. Rather, a lot of people are destine to lie in a bed in some nursing home with hoses up every orifice. That's not living, that is "not-quite-dead". It took 8 years for Alzheimer's Disease to finally put my Father out of his misery. God willing I will have a massive heart attack and die quickly. We NEED death panels - they would be humane.

I understand where your coming from hobo but no way do I want this government to decide...

 

[TheJPRD]

Absolutely the dumbest, stupidest, most-retarded thing I have ever read. Come up here and say that to ANY CAnadian. He/she will point at you and say 'now ladies and gentlemen, THAT is why we are not Americans!' I am astonished that people like you exist.

Are you serious??? You even group all citizens of your own country together and tell us they think alike. I'm not a Canadian, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are WRONG! Canadians are not as simple-minded and shallow as you'd have us believe! The biggest complaint I've heard from Canadian friends is the long waiting times they often experience for healthcare in Canada.

As for your attack on Dr. Who, he was right and you were wrong. America's healthcare remains the finest in the world from the perspectives of both quality and availability. Much of the costs associated with US healthcare is not the fault of doctors, hospitals, nor insurance companies. Much of the costs result from outrageous government regulations and out-of-control trial-lawyers. Costs are also elevated some in the US due to the higher-tech, higher-cost treatments available. As for Dr. Who's comment about "profit motive", he is right on that count too. You're quick to tell us that you and those like you aren't being fairly compensated for your superior skills and hard work. Apparently you believe doctors don't work as hard as you do?? Once doctors are no longer profitable, watch how rapidly the nations' healthcare system goes to hell in a handbasket. Why work 18 hours a day, pay enormous malpractice insurance premiums, and be critized by folks like you because you think they're rich bastards, when you could quit and plant a garden instead. It's much less stressful!