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What a filthy work !

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by Free Palestine, May 31, 2010.

  1. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    I already understand what sovereign means . If it's like that , and you all believe in the sovereign of every country, and if you don't care about how the government came , so why did the US invade Iraq ?? why did Bush claimed that the US will get rid of the Iraqi regime ?? Under your rule, the US has nothing to do with Iraqi people nor with Iraqi regime !! . And this is the same in Sudan, Afaghanstan, Pakistan, and all the world !! You are a big liar , you claim you believe in sovereign of people , but your actions reveal your lies ! .
    I don't know what kind of 'humans' are you ? . You still defending those killers in Israel even after that massacre !! . You say the Israel was defending itself , from whom ?? from unarmed civilians ?? , until now, there is absolutely no evidence that the ship was carrying weapons. If it was, show us !! . Besides, the ship didn't came from Turkey directly , it was checked in many countries and the last was Greece as you know the ship started the way from Greece to Gaza , so do you think that Greece will give weapons to Hamas ????

    Your lies are no more believable !

    It's not you who decide which organization is legal or not. It's a Palestinian issue. And while the Palestinians chose Hamas, you've to deal with it. If you claim that Hamas is illegal because of violence, remember that Hamas was established in 1987 as a reaction to the Israeli violcnce and terror . Israel was the side who started violence and massacres in 1948. Hamas maybe killed Two thousand Israelis since 1987 , most of them were soliders , on the other hand , Israel killed Hundreds og thousands of Palestinians since 1948, and all of them were civilians, This makes Israel an illegal country .

    And Please tell me what criteria do you follow to classify who's legal and who's not , and then I'll show you that Israel is the side that matches all the criteria 100 % !!!! .

    In all the History , every occupation had a military resistance. I've never heared about any people who liberated their land from occupation without weapons . If you have , tell me ! .
     
  2. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    That is so right. Nearly every nation has its beginnings in blood. This is unfortunate, but a reality.

    The Israelis should tell the Palestinians either live in peace or die. This constant fighting must end. Fight it out and may the best man win.

    In my humble opinion, the best man is Israel. The Palestinians, if they lose, will be forced out and find homes in other lands. The Jews immigrated from Europe to evade extinction. Same applies to the Palestinians.

    Israel is Jewish land. Has been since the beginning of time. The squatters must either win the war, leave, or die trying.
     
  3. numinus

    numinus Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that simple things need to be explained over and over and over....(ad infinitum) to goat-loving idiots?

    When a nation is recognized as a sovereign entity, such recognition ALWAYS entail a responsibility to the community of nations to abide by INTERNATIONAL LAW. If you think that the us violated international law, then, go ahead and make a case according to international law. In fact, I dare you to do so, if you really have FACTS proveable in a court of law. But you can't, now, can you? And the reason why you can't make a case according to international law is simply because YOU DO NOT HAVE FACTS PROVEABLE IN A COURT OF LAW.

    Now, as to these palestinian goat-herders, how can they enjoy justice according to international law when they couldn't be held accountable according to the same law?????

    When hamas accuses israel, of say, violating the articles of the geneva conventions, is it even duty-bound to abide by the geneva covention in the first place?????

    If and when a moron is stupid enough to accuse hamas of violating the geneva conventions, it is tantamount to RECOGNIZING hamas as the legal and sovereign representative of the palestinian people enjoying the rights and privileges accorded to legitimate state-hood.

    Nothing wrong in that, you might say, EXCEPT hamas never signified to abide by international law -- hence is legally immune to it. In fact, it does not recognize israel's right to exist, it continues to use force against israel on this ground alone, and openly defy international law.

    They do not even qualify as a rogue state like north korea. They are mere bandits and criminals in the eyes of the international community. And in the face of LAWLESS VIOLENCE brought by hamas, ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO USE ALL MEANS AT ITS DISPOSAL TO QUELL IT.

    Is that clear enough? Meeeeeh.

    What?????

    The ship was entering a NAVAL BLOCKADE. That area IS A WAR ZONE hence anyone entering it without prior permission is deemed as HOSTILE. Israel responded in the same way ANY armed force of ANY nation would respond under the same circumstances -- BOARD THE VESSEL to assess the threat.

    And your 'unarmed civilians' managed to RESIST the israeli navy (injuring or killing(??)least one soldier). This is the usual goat-herder nonsense. Palestinians fire rockets from civilian neighborhoods with impunity and when israel retaliates, it was -- guess what???? -- a civilian neighborhood.

    Duh?

    Nonsense.

    HAMAS IS ILLEGAL SIMPLY BECAUSE IT HAS NO LEGAL PERSONALITY.

    The legally recognized entity is the palestinian authority. Hamas does not recognize the palestinian authority. In fact, the palestinian authority needs to 'negotiate' with hamas. Therefore, not only is hamas not duty-bound to follow the pa, the pa cannot even exercise sovereignty over an armed section of what it purports to represent.

    If hamas were legally representative of the palestinian people exercising sovereignty over its borders, then it would BE MADE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SINGLE ROCKET FIRED FROM ITS TERRITORY INTO ISRAEL.

    That alone is reason enough (according to international law) to blow gaza from here to kingdom come.

    Duh?

    Exercise of DE FACTO sovereignty over its borders.

    For instance, north korea is an independent state simply by the mere exercise of sovereignty over its borders. If the government of north korea, through its military, acts in a way that is provocative to south korea, then the WHOLE NATION faces the prospect of MILITARY ACTION -- just like what the joint us-south korea military exercise is demonstrating right now.

    While north korea may be saber-rattling about a possible nuclear response to the exercise, you don't see them whinning to the international press about human rights violations, now, do you? Nor do they hide underneath their women's skirt, now, do they?

    However stupid their government is, they implicitly accept the consequences of their own actions.

    Correct.

    If the palestinian people, through hamas, hezbollah, et al, were waging a war of national liberation, then everyone would understand. If they fire rockets from a civilian neighborhood, that neighborhood AUTOMATICALLY becomes a war zone subject to retaliation. No more whining about civilian casualties since hamas is entirely responsible for the war. The japanese absorbed 2 nuclear attacks on 2 civilian cities and you don't see them whining about it, now, do you?

    Now, if they can't take the heat, they might as well put away their guns and start negotiating in GOOD FAITH, the way everyone, even israel, is hoping for.

    Duh?
     
  4. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    No, the worst is Israel . Israel does have power and technology , that's right. But we believe that the case is not about power and technology, it's about right and wrong , good and evil ! That's it . In all the history , the invading countries always were more armed and stronger , but all the results were that the indvaders were defeated !! Simply because they were the side of evil.

    Examples are abundant, USA vs Somalia , France vs Algeria, Britain vs Egypt , Britain vs USA ...... etc . We believe that Palestine will never be an exception . Either now or later , zionists will be out !! .

    By the way , all the evidences say that Palestinians and Arabs were the first who came to Palestine , it has been an Arabic land since ever ! and will still .
     
  5. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    Be somehow polite when talking about Arabs . They have civilizations old in the history. All the current technology were built over our discoveries. You've been in your dark ages later until the 18th century hhh. In the 18th century , your church was still preventing people from science and controllig the people , and the monks were giving certificates for people , this is for heaven and that is for the hell hhhhhhhhh . Keep that in mind. We are not got herders . Maybe my English is not excellent , but I guess you've got it .
    All the courts have no hands because USA owns them , this is the truth . USA has the right prevent any international decision ! This is simply why I don't trust the International law . Because it has been put by Power countries which ALL have a record of blood and occupation against other nations.

    Inspite of all this, we have international decisions that indicates and calls for a Palestinian state over 1967 borders. The decision 242 and 338 . In addition, we have the decision 194 which gives the right to all Palestinian refugees to get back home. Israel has been refusing those decisions , so what did the international community do against Israel ?? simply nothing , they still giving Israel all the weapons to kill children and innocents !!

    After all that , how can you imagine that I will trust such law or community ! .


    I tell you again to be polite . The Palestinians are accountable , they're the real owners of all the land. Israel is the thief. When a thief steals something , he may own it (for a while) , but his posession is ILLEGAL , that's Israel .

    In addition , I told you that there are plenty of decisions which recognize a state for the Palestinians .


    In all the countries , the people of the country are the only side who gives legality or illegality the his leadership. The Americans elected Obama and so he is legal. And the Palestinians elected Hamas , and so it's legal. NO EXCEPTIONS .

    Hamas already agrees on a Palestinian state over 1967 borders. This is what the International law says. Give the Palestinians their state, and all the violence will be over . It's as simple as this sentence ! .

    Absolutely NO. First : Who is the Intertnational community ?? let talk about USA , USA is much more criminal that Korea . The criteria is simple , Let us count how many innocents did Korea kill and USA kill . USA killed more than TWO MILLION Iraqi people since 2003 . And keep in mind that USA was the ONLY SIDE in the world who used NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST CIVLIANS, this reason is enough to prove it's brutality .

    And answer me : Why does the US, Russia ..... etc have the right to own the nuclear technology while others don't ?? Can you answer me ??


    Under the international decisions 338 & 242 , and under Oslo agreement, Gaza is a PALESTINIAN LAND and Israel recognizes that ! . So Israel has no right to make a blockade on a land it doesn't own . Clear ?? .

    Surely they are waging a liberation war. and they can take the heat . But whining is just to show the world how criminal Israel is !! . Besides, there's absolutely no equality between the right owner and the thief . In addition, all this reveals the criminal leaders who support the thief and the killer against the victim. That's it !
     
  6. Cookie Parker

    Cookie Parker Well-Known Member

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    Your proof?

    http://www.israeli-occupation.org/

    Here's mine...there's more..holler when you're ready.
     
  7. OldTrapper

    OldTrapper Well-Known Member

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    What is really sad is that none of you seem to know th eentire history of the region. Your history begin in 1947, or thereabouts, and you ignore what happened prior to that.

    In the beginning with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the Palestinian Jews were given all of the land West of the Jordan. The Arab Palestinians were given that East of the Jordan. However, this was not to be. The Arabs wanted all of the land. They wanted the Israeli's gone, and this is their position today.

    If the Palestinians were truely interested in getting back their land it would not be Israel they would be attacking. It would be Jordan.

    http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
     
  8. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    Really ??
    I see that you're the one who doesn't know the history of the region . Jews live in Palestine , but they never controlled any land . They always were a minority since ever . Evidences are more than being mentioned all here . But I can tell you many things; after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, Palestine became under the English Occupation since 1918. England ruled Palestine and most of its people were Palestinians. My grandfather remembers these days and he is still alive. To prove that Palestinians were in Palestine NOT Jordan , you may read about the Palestinian revolutions against the English Occupation in the years of : 1920, 1929, 1935, 1936. And many other small clashes .

    Revolutions were because England was supporting the Jews to migrate from all over the world and live in Palestine to have a state by the English Help. England was applying the promise of Arther Belfor 1917, who promised the Jews to give them a state in Palestine .

    Palestinians were always the majority, and the jews never were ! . They just migrated by the help of England, US, Russia, France and others , they stole the land and killed the people . They are a community of criminals and theives.

    By the way , and even from the Torah's point of view, Kanaanites (Arabs) were living in Palestine before Jews . This is written in Torah .
     
  9. OldTrapper

    OldTrapper Well-Known Member

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    Every once in while you start on your rant, and everytime you are shown to be filled with BS, and just plain the same old hatred all Arabs seem to feel for the Jews, When you speak of killing others, how many countries today are suffering from the terrorism of the Muslim world not including Israel? The United States, Russia, Spain, England, France, China, India, Lebanon, The Sudan, The Phillipines, Liberia, and the list goes on to include some 123 different countries. Then we have the Muslim piracy of the high seas, and the Muslim terrorism on civilian aircraft.

    So, don't give me that "peaceful Muslim" crap.

    As for the migration into Palestine of the Jew, it began in 1880 when the Jewish world determined to return to their homeland. They were the ones that cleaned up the swamps, and established a place to live, not the Arabs.

    After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs were given 75% of the land, and the Jews were given 25%, or that West of the Jordan River. The Arab, people such as yourself, were not satisfied with this arrangement, and determined to eliminate the Jew from any Palestinian land. Thus began the terrorist attacks of the Arabs, and the British determination that gave all of the land East of the Jordan River to the Arab, and then divided the land that was originally given to the Jew up to include the so-called "Palestinian" Arab. Now the Jew is living on less then 25% of the land originally promised to them, and still the Arab world is not satisfied. And still the Arab world acts like the welfare whores they are, and instead of developing the land they have they continue to oppress not only their own people, they still try to remove the Jew.

    That is the reality your hate refuses to allow you to see, and it is the reality that will eventually destroy you.
     
  10. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    Before dealing with what you call terrorism , let us all first define terrorism and put criteria . If you consider terrorism to be killing innocents and this staff , I agree with you . But our memory is still alive about the two nuclear bombs in Japan . We still remember the 1.5 million innocents whom France killed in Algeria . We also remember the brutal English occupation to the majority of the world , and the Italian, Spanish, Portugese ..... Etc occupations . All those occupations happened hundreds of years before anyone hear about "muslim terrorism" .

    Finally, the US occupation to Iraq and killing more than 2 Million innocents in 7 years only , what you call all of this ??? isn't it a brutal terrorism ??

    And the important point is that European countries were the first who committed terrorist criminals because I think (and you have to do) that Occupying the lands of others is the biggest terrorism the world has ever seen. All the other "terrorisms" were a reaction on that basic terrorism . Although I condemn all the killing of innocents regardless of the side who does it now or in the past.

    I condemn also your misleading binding between Islam and terrorism . If terrorism is killing innocents , then it's simple to know that Christians are the biggest terrorisms as muslims never occupied the lands of others , but on the other hand, all the occupations and the aparthied were committed by Christians not muslims .

    I told you that Torah mentions the presence of Arabs in Palestine before the Jews. Arabs were poor because of Ottoman Empire's weakness, but Jews were rich because of the West support for them. And it's important for you to learn one thing that cleaning the land and building everything , all this does not make the Jews real owners of the land . If someone steals a car from you and if he fixes it and cleans it , is he now the legal owner ?? absolutely NO .
    Historically statistics never said that Jews owned 25% of the land, they were minority . However, Arabs never tried to hurt Jews since Islam orders muslims to live peacefully with all people , especially Jews and Christians . But Arabs started to attack jews after the british promise in 1917 of giving the land to the jews to make a state. Arabs discovered the evil plan , and they had to defend their lands , and that's what they did and will always do . Also, they attacked Jews and English soldiers as reactions to Jewish massacres committed against the Palestinians .

    And now, Israel doesn't own 25% of the land !! It owns all the land in addition to Parts of Syria , Lebanon and Jordan . Israel is still building settlements , killing people, arresting innocents reagrdless of all international decisions which call for a Palestinian state on 1967 borders .

    By the way, what prevents Arabs from building real states and developing themselves is the American rule behind the scenes in all the world . USA supports all the Arab leaders although none of them is elected by his own people . USA supports Arab dictatorships because they are its servants . USA knows that when real elections are made in all Arab countries , the winners will be honest people who don't give everything to Uncle Sam . Because of this, USA supports dictators like (Mubark , King Abdullah , and all Arab leaders ) but on the other hand , USA fights agains the real elected leaders like Hamas .
     
  11. OldTrapper

    OldTrapper Well-Known Member

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    BS. Muslim terrorism began with Mohammed, and hasn't stopped since. Remember the Barbary Pirates?

    More BS. What was Hussein if not a terrorist? Remember Kuwait, and Iran?

    So, when the Muslim hoardes invaded as far North as Spain they were terrorists. Let me see now. Wasn't that around 700 A.D., or earlier.

    Now, that is a lie if there ever was one.

    More Muslim propaganda. For one interested in truth you sure lie a lot.

    How many Muslim countries allow Christians to live there in peace? Christian countries accept Muslims.


    When the Jews returned to Palestine in the late 1800's they were far from rich. What they had was a dream, and the ability to work. Obviously the Arabs didn't, or they would have drained the swamps long before the Jews arrived. Setting that aside, there has been a Jewish presence in the Land of Palestine, different from what is now called "Palestine", for over 4000 years.

    Then we have your other idiocy. If one comes to a land which is unused, and no one claims ownership, cleans up that land so it is usuable, builds a home there, and then some stranger, who had no desire for the land until it became profitable, comes along and wants to take from you what you have built, who is the thief?

    That is a lie. The Caliphs, following the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D., began their slaughters in 633 A.D. with the conquering of Syria in 634 A.D., then Jerusalem, Egypt, etc. They were finally stopped at the Battle of Tours
    in France in 732 A.D.

    More of your lies, and propaganda.

    Ho hum. Your lies are getting boring.

    Hamas. Now that is a real illustration of what Muslim stands for, just as Arafat did.
     
  12. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be ignorant in everything related to Islam and Mohammad. To have a fair view , know the real thing from the real source . If I want to know something about Judiasm , I read Torah and read what their rabbies say. On the other hand , if you want to know anything about Islam , read the Holy Quran, Sunnah, or what the muslim scientists say about it . But I see that you are misled by the zionists propaganda about Islam which is full of hate not truth .

    Islam is the religion of peace. Prophet Mohammad made many agreements with all Jews in the Arabic Island to live peacefully with each other. All instructions of Mohammad and Quran all call for peace. You know absolutely nothing about Mohammad , you just keep repeating what they taught you to say like a robot !! .

    There was absulutely no terrorism in Islamic history, but there was sympathy and kindness. If you have any evidence of what you call Islamic terror , give me . I didn't understand what you mean with Barbary Pirates .

    How did you judge on Saddam ?? If he was a terrorist because of war in Kuwait or Iran , wich all killed tens of thousands of peoole from all sides . Then USA, is terrorist because of the WW1 , WW2, Afaghanstan war, Iraq War 1, Iraq War 2 ..... etc which all killed tens of MILLIONS of innocents . USA & UK hve the largest number of wars and innocent casulatities . Under your rule, they are more terrorist than Saddam .

    Don't tell me that USA declared the ware against Iraq and Afaghanstan to protect itself ! this is a big lie . If you have your reasons for war, others also have their. But your wars are always more brutal than others . Remember Guantanamo, Abu Ghrieb and secret jails of CIA .

    They didn't invade. they were just spreading their religion peacefully. Some wars happened, but muslims always were sympathetic with others . I guarantee that all people were killed by muslims since Mohammad was born are less than innocents USA kills in any 'small battle' !!. And let the figures speak of you don't believe me .
    When you have nothing to say and no evidences to show , you surely will talk about lies and propaganda, I'm not surprised !! .

    All Muslim coutries allow christians to live peacefully. Have you ever heared about the promise of Calipha Omer Ben Al Khattab for Christians when muslims ruled Palestine ??. I'm sure you know nothing about Islam .

    Here is a small evidence; Muslims have been living with Christians in Palestine since more than 1400 years when muslims ruled Palestine. During those 1400 years , muslims protected the churchs and the Christians. The only side who attacked the Church Of Nativity ,which is the most sacred place for Christians in Bethlehem, was Israel in 2002. Israel attacked it by tanks and killed 3 of its worshippers ! so what do you call this ??

    You are distorting history !!. Arabs were before the Jews in Palestine and Jews were always a minority during the history. Jews' Torah says that !! If you don't believe Muslims , just believe Torah !!

    I say again , the land was not unused , the land was always important for Muslims. As you know nothing about Islam , I tell you that the most important places in Islam are : Mekka, Madina and Jerusalem. During the history, Jerusalem and the places around were of special important . One thing to prove it that Jerusalem (and Palestine) was the only place to which the Calipha came by himself to rule it !! Besides, Muslims prayed to direction of Jerusalem before Mekka . Jerusalem and Palestine are parts of Islam.

    In addition , in all the cities in Palestine (including current Israel) there are plenty of mosques and Islamic ruins , we don't need to prove our historical presence. But Jews have been looking for what they call(Solomon Temple) in Jerusalem since 1948, but they've found NOTHING and they'll never find anything. So what does this tell ??

    What do you even know about Hamas ? If you were a Palestinian what would you do ??

    All the nations fought against the thieves and invaders. That's what Hamas doing. And that is what Americans did as well . The world has never recognized the freedom fighters as terrorists except this time!! why ? .

    One more thing, if you want to know the truth, search for it by yourself from its source until you believe it's the truth you are looking for . Respect your mind and don't repeat what others say . Before talking about Islam and Palestine , read about them fairly !!

     
  13. OldTrapper

    OldTrapper Well-Known Member

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    LOL, all of this BS is like saying the madrassa's don't teach children to hate Jews, and Americans. It's like saying that the Koran does not call infidels, or anyone who does not believe in the Muslim faith "pigs", and commands that they be killed. Then too, there are no suicide bombers from the Muslim world killing innocent people on aircraft, or blowing up school busses. And surely, there are no Christians being killed, or whatever, by Muslims in The Sudan.

    Peddle your BS somewhere else. People here are too informed to accept your lies just as was shown to you the last time you tried this crap.

    The "filthy piece of work" is people such as yourself who exist only on hate.
     
  14. Free Palestine

    Free Palestine Well-Known Member

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    Muslims are all taught to love all the people. Muslims didn't come from Palestine to Jews in Russia or US and killed them, but Jews did . Muslims didn't come from Iraq and attacked the US, but the US is occupying Iraq. And so on.

    From your words, I believe that you are an ignorant !!. You don't know anything about Islam , I repeat it again . But I know many about Judiasm and Christianity. just for you to beware, Quran never described non-muslims as "pigs" in the general way you mentioned. And I challenge you to bring quotes of Quran that call for killing non-muslims in general !!! .

    The filthy people and filthy minds are people who migrate from their own countries and steal others' lands, people who photograph naked innocents in jails , people who used nuclear bombs against innocents and people who destroy all the world just to serve their pockets .

    I talk with evidences and historical facts but you talk with bad words and insults, this reveals the background of each of us !
     
  15. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I did not read the rest of your post after reading your first sentence.

    How does one believe this when the history of Islam is murder and conquest? And, now you condemn Israel for doing what Islam has been doing for centuries. Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

    You and American libs have so much in common. It is no wonder you are both united in your efforts to destroy the West.
     
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