Taxation Is Robbery

And federally funded public schools haven't had particularly good results and the poor districts just get worse. What's your point?

If the states have to start competing against one another, then people will want to move to the states with good schools. Competition is a good thing. Education is a states rights issue according to the Constitution. I think they had it right.

While I agree that there are serious problems in the school system I disagree that it has to do with whether or not a school is federally funded or not. One of the factors that people tend to forget is that private schools can pick and choose their students - they do not have to take all students.

I also don't this kind of competition is good in terms of what is best for the children. States with a poor tax base will lose and be stuck with even worse school systems You'll end up with a big gap, eventually between rich and poor, educated and uneducated and little in between. Sure, it's good for some states but bad for the nation as a whole.
 
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While I agree that there are serious problems in the school system I disagree that it has to do with whether or not a school is federally funded or not. One of the factors that people tend to forget is that private schools can pick and choose their students - they do not have to take all students.

I also don't this kind of competition is good in terms of what is best for the children. States with a poor tax base will lose and be stuck with even worse school systems You'll end up with a big gap, eventually between rich and poor, educated and uneducated and little in between. Sure, it's good for some states but bad for the nation as a whole.

So what's your solution? Throw more money at them? That's proven to not work. But if you force two different state school systems to compete, they will both get better because they have an incentive to.
 
So what's your solution? Throw more money at them? That's proven to not work. But if you force two different state school systems to compete, they will both get better because they have an incentive to.

No, they won't - competition doesn't always mean better. Studies looking at several districts that privatized their school systems showed there was no improvement, and in some aspects it was worse.

I think - my personal thoughts - is we need to get away from the huge comglomerate supersized schools, and back to smaller neighborhood schools.

Parents need to be more actively involved - it is not a teacher's job to be a parent.

There needs to be a return to discipline, manners, and I'd say have a school uniform.

Smaller class sizes.

Some of sort of merit based reward for good teachers - I'm not sure how this would be done.

Who knows...I don't really know.
 
Well I'm with you on most of what you said. As far as competition, I'm talking about between states not schools. It doesn't say anywhere in the Constitution that the federal government's job is to provide education. Leave it up to the states how they want to deal with education. You'll surely get different systems with varying degrees of success and the different states will adjust accordingly.
 
Well I'm with you on most of what you said. As far as competition, I'm talking about between states not schools. It doesn't say anywhere in the Constitution that the federal government's job is to provide education. Leave it up to the states how they want to deal with education. You'll surely get different systems with varying degrees of success and the different states will adjust accordingly.

I don't know...the problem is that some states have vastly more resources then others - a much better tax base. Since I happen to live in a state that has had historically poor schools, poor infrastructure and poor people - I don't see how this would help. Education has always been the way out of poverty and access to a decent education seems almost to be a right. I do think that schools should revert to more local control where possible, but it would seem as if there would have to be minimal standards to be met set at a national level or it might be a real disservice to the kids.

To be honest - I'd like to see a comparison with school systems in other countries that are rated better and see what they are doing that we arent' - if anything.
 
What about 'consensus' don't you understand?

Is it necessarily the opinion of the majority?

What about elections don't you understand? Are candidates not elected by a majority? What do you allege that exists within the consensus that supercedes the majority rule?



An elected official transcends party loyalty because he becomes answerable to the WHOLE BODY POLITIC.

No - he does not. HE IS ONLY ANSWERABLE TO THE MAJORITY. As that is all it takes to elect him.

You lose.


You're the one incapable of honesty.

Nope, that'd be you.

The terms majority and minority are fluid definitions within the dynamics of the political association.

The only crap "fluid" definition is this political association nonsense you keep spewing. You can't even define it with the concrete terms - and the reason for that is so you can introduce unnecessary complexity and obfuscate the facts as to avoid the root logic of the debate. Your assertions are completely and totally fallacious.

In the end, what must emerge is that which conforms with the COMMON GOOD - something that the majority and minority partake of equally.

So the minority of African American people in 1800, 1850, 1900, and 1950 were all partaking equally of the common good in your opinion?



Rules are determined by the political dynamics tempered by debate and consensus building.

Again, with vague abstractions... Define political dynamics. Define the "termpering" process. Define how "tempering" will always occur and how individuals gain the capacity to engage in it. Define "debate" in your system. Define "consensus building." Please cite all the rules, qualifications, and prerequisites for individuals to enter into the "consensus building" process.


Of course it is by majority vote of the legislators.

Well, well, well. Finally a straightforward answer. Ok - you can ignore all the rest. I should have just scrolled down to the bottom.

One more question:

If the majority votes in legislators who pass a law mandating that no one may leave the country to avoid following a law - and that each citizen must kill one 5 year old child per month to combat overpopulation - would you follow the law and kill 5 year old children?
 
What about elections don't you understand? Are candidates not elected by a majority? What do you allege that exists within the consensus that supercedes the majority rule?

Majority will ends at suffrage.

A legislator represents the common good of all his constituents, and not just the majority's.

Understand?

No - he does not. HE IS ONLY ANSWERABLE TO THE MAJORITY. As that is all it takes to elect him.

You lose.

LOL.

The majority will is a FLUID THING. It vacillates from one moment to the next. How can one be answerable to it, hmm?

And so, the legislator is answerable ONLY to the RULE OF LAW - until such time he again presents himself to the majority will as the LAW dictates.

Loosing an election is not a criminal offense. It simply means that the privilege and responsibility of representing one's constituents is no longer there.

There really is a political reality beyond your basic anarchy.

Nope, that'd be you.



The only crap "fluid" definition is this political association nonsense you keep spewing. You can't even define it with the concrete terms - and the reason for that is so you can introduce unnecessary complexity and obfuscate the facts as to avoid the root logic of the debate. Your assertions are completely and totally fallacious.

The political association is one of man's natural end. In fact, it is NECESSARY to his continued existence. One need only look at human history to see that there is NO epoch where political associations didn't exist.

Even animal social organization has rudimentary elements of the political association. The consequences of an existence without one is quite fatal.

So the minority of African American people in 1800, 1850, 1900, and 1950 were all partaking equally of the common good in your opinion?

Of course not.

And so it was necessary to reconstitute the social, political and economic order to correct this.

Even the white majority wasn't impervious to the dictates of human reason.

Again, with vague abstractions... Define political dynamics.

The process by which the body politics operate.

Define the "termpering" process. Define how "tempering" will always occur and how individuals gain the capacity to engage in it.

The logical relationship between the law and its intended end.

The law cannot be arbitrary - hence it must be designed within a basic framework of law. In this case, it is the constitution that serves as the fundamental law of the land.

As I said, the individual is BOTH subject to sovereign power and an integral part of its indivisible whole.

Define "debate" in your system.

The process by which people (who are equal) arrive at a practical or necessary truth through a logical process.

Define "consensus building."

A determination of the law that we apply to ourselves equally.

Please cite all the rules, qualifications, and prerequisites for individuals to enter into the "consensus building" process.

LOL.

You want the full course on political science?

You need to pay me for that.

Well, well, well. Finally a straightforward answer. Ok - you can ignore all the rest. I should have just scrolled down to the bottom.

One more question:

If the majority votes in legislators who pass a law mandating that no one may leave the country to avoid following a law - and that each citizen must kill one 5 year old child per month to combat overpopulation - would you follow the law and kill 5 year old children?

Well, well, well. Some light creeping in that thick skull of yours, finally.

You have just demonstrated why the majority will is NOT necessarily the sovereign will.

So, while the majority (or most anyone for that matter) is naturally averse to paying taxes, its necessity is inescapable.
 
Majority will ends at suffrage.

A legislator represents the common good of all his constituents, and not just the majority's.

Understand?

What I understand is that your fallacious nonsense is becoming extremely tiresome. Again, the will of the majority does not equate to the common good, and the legislators are elected by the majority.


LOL.

The majority will is a FLUID THING. It vacillates from one moment to the next. How can one be answerable to it, hmm?

Your entire "argument" is a nonsensical FLUID THING because if you stopped shifting definitions, your fallacious position would be easily exposed.


The political association is one of man's natural end. In fact, it is NECESSARY to his continued existence.

What is necessary for real progress is the freedom for each and every individual to engage in any peaceful, honest, voluntary activity that he or she chooses. Any association that limits this freedom is an obstacle to progress.

One need only look at human history to see that there is NO epoch where political associations didn't exist.

One also need only look at human history to see that "political associations" are the greatest mass murderers in that history.


Of course not.

And so it was necessary to reconstitute the social, political and economic order to correct this.

So who gets to determine corrections? Again, we're back to your only possible answer - the majority. Yet why does an oppressed minority have to wait on the "reconstitution of the social, political and economic order to correct" their situation?

Even the white majority wasn't impervious to the dictates of human reason.

Majorities have indeed been proven many times to be impervious to human reason - as with the support of slavery. If you say they EVENTUALLY learn -again, my question is - what recourse do those who claim to be oppressed have in the meantime?

The process by which the body politics operate.

Not an answer.


The logical relationship between the law and its intended end.

Idiocy. That doensn't answer the question. I'm asking you to define the steps of the actual process you call "tempering."


The process by which people (who are equal) arrive at a practical or necessary truth through a logical process.

You seem to have a problem with logic. How does this debate transpire? How does one become qualified to become a "debater" in the system? Why do some have a voice and others do not? What if the minority is right and the majority is wrong?

A determination of the law that we apply to ourselves equally.

Again with more idiocy. You can do nothing but avoid specifics. I'm asking you to define the steps of this "Consensus building." The minority isn't applying a law equally to itself if it votes against the majority wishes.


LOL.

You want the full course on political science?

You need to pay me for that.

LOL. That'd be worth about half a penny.


Well, well, well. Some light creeping in that thick skull of yours, finally.

You have just demonstrated why the majority will is NOT necessarily the sovereign will.

What I've demonstrated is that you can't answer my question. And now you introduce more gobbledegook to cloud the fact that you can't answer - this "sovereign will" nonsense.

Answer the question.

So, while the majority (or most anyone for that matter) is naturally averse to paying taxes, its necessity is inescapable.

Another irrelevant statement. Many people once said the same thing about slavery.
 
Truth-bringer, you seem like a very angry person. As soon as someone attacks libertarianism, you go nuts. You've turned me off libertarianism.
 
Easy to see the reason for a bit of anger, theres no less than 5 of you attacking her position, at the same time..........and i think she actually has faired well throughout the onslaught.

I don't see where anyone "Shredded" anything here i see two distinct viewpoints on this issue.and a fair amount of smugness and disdain.Dissenters are far more patriotic than the line towers


have all of you seen the speech that Ron paul made in may?
about Patriotism? its a great speech i reccomend you all watch it.they werent attacking Libretarianism Sublime....there were attacking her Viewpoints
 
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