Supreme Court Throws Health Care Back Into The Congress

[Johnny Tremain]

As much as one might revile smoking--that is where Pandora's Box was opened.
The door was opened to TAX behavior.
It has no end.
Speech--comes soon.

 

[Cruella]

First, supporters will now have to call the mandate a “tax,” something that will make it even less popular than it is now.

Third, opponents can now say, “Do you want to be taxed to force you to buy insurance?” and “If you don’t buy insurance, your taxes go up.” I’m betting those are winning soundbites.

This is where I am having trouble. In my mind, the government telling you that "you must purchase insurance" is the mandate, and the "or we will fine you" is the tax.

"Mandate" an authoritative command;

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I was once in a dark parking lot and a stranger with a gun taxed me $200 cash.

 

[dogtowner]

WRONG! AGAIN!

I pay a lot for healthcare. The coverage is provided by my wife's employer, but we must contribute a considerable sum to cover ourselves and our children.

I can only guess healthcare for you is free, since you are a union thug.

and even if they did not offer it, thats direct compensation she is not receiving.

 

[dogtowner]

This is where I am having trouble. In my mind, the government telling you that "you must purchase insurance" is the mandate, and the "or we will fine you" is the tax.

"Mandate" an authoritative command;

allow me to help

you will be taxed X amount.

you can negate that tax via some sort of proof that you have obtained health insurance (of a specified minimum and have to pay a tax if it exceeds a specified maximum but I digress).

its just lowering your tax liability with a deduction same as home mortgage interest (for now) or charitable giving (for now).

hope that clears it up for you

 

[Cruella]

I hope that clears it up for you

Not really. I understand calling a fine a tax, I'm hung up on the word mandate.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The Justice Department build an argument around the idea that it was for the last two years.



Agree.



The only choice you have to not pay is if you go buy health insurance.



Agree



This was already a program in place.

the program in place was expanded to help more..

and if its a tax, then your parties nominee raised taxes on people. I know my taxes are not going to go up...I have insurance...And if I did not and something happened major to me, I would get health care and not be able to pay for it...passing that bill on to the rest...But I can afford health care insurance....I would by proxy be saying I don't want to pay for my health care..and forcing you to do it...now I am forced to at least chip in for the fact I would be covered in a Emergency.

And you can opt no to have health insurance...but you can no t opt not to use the health care system. Thus someone has to pay.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

allow me to help

you will be taxed X amount.

you can negate that tax via some sort of proof that you have obtained health insurance (of a specified minimum and have to pay a tax if it exceeds a specified maximum but I digress).

its just lowering your tax liability with a deduction same as home mortgage interest (for now) or charitable giving (for now).

hope that clears it up for you

or...you are not taxes...unless you are shown to not to have health care and being that you do still use the health care system...you are assest a penalty. But if you want to call it a tax, fine I don't care...Just means your boy Mitt raised taxes...and since have never said I was against a tax hike I could care less.

 

[dogtowner]

Not really. I understand calling a fine a tax, I'm hung up on the word mandate.

had to make it seem not a tax to keep the tax paying public at bay so they made up that term.

 

[dogtowner]

or...you are not taxes...unless you are shown to not to have health care and being that you do still use the health care system...you are assest a penalty. But if you want to call it a tax, fine I don't care...Just means your boy Mitt raised taxes...and since have never said I was against a tax hike I could care less.

the Supreme Court ruled it a tax, not me.

and your taxes will go up. there are 22 other taxes in ACA you will get a few and your premiums will be going up as well. don't kid yourswelf this is a freebie for you.

 

[Gipper]

the Supreme Court ruled it a tax, not me.

and your taxes will go up. there are 22 other taxes in ACA you will get a few and your premiums will be going up as well. don't kid yourswelf this is a freebie for you.

It is much better to kid one's self than face the truth about liberal policies and their horrific consequences....at least it is for a liberal like our little buddy.

 

[dogtowner]

It is much better to kid one's self than face the truth about liberal policies and their horrific consequences....at least it is for a liberal like our little buddy.

he has a terrible task trying to defend his leadership. I feel bad for his side. they mean well but things go so far astray.

 

[cashmcall]

This is where I am having trouble. In my mind, the government telling you that "you must purchase insurance" is the mandate, and the "or we will fine you" is the tax.

"Mandate" an authoritative command;

I agree..just trying to see the upside..

 

[cashmcall]

or...you are not taxes...unless you are shown to not to have health care and being that you do still use the health care system...you are assest a penalty. But if you want to call it a tax, fine I don't care...Just means your boy Mitt raised taxes...and since have never said I was against a tax hike I could care less.

Obamacare: 21 New or Higher Taxes

Ryan Ellis puts together some important data on the tax impact of Obamacare:


1. Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following
1 Adult 2 Adults 3+ Adults
2014 1% AGI/$95 1% AGI/$190 1% AGI/$285
2015 2% AGI/$325 2% AGI/$650 2% AGI/$975
2016 + 2.5% AGI/$695 2.5% AGI/$1390 2.5% AGI/$2085
Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS)

2. Employer Mandate Tax(Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years

3. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income
Capital Gains Dividends Other*
2010-2012 15% 15% 35%
2013+ (current law) 23.8% 43.4% 43.4%
2013+ (Obama budget) 23.8% 23.8% 43.4%

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.
4. Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

5. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013)

6. Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

7. HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

8. Flexible Spending Account Cap - aka"Special Needs Kids Tax"($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

9. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100.

10. Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

11. Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

12. Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

13. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

14. Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

15. Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year

16. Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

 

[cashmcall]

This is where I am having trouble. In my mind, the government telling you that "you must purchase insurance" is the mandate, and the "or we will fine you" is the tax.

"Mandate" an authoritative command;

This is how I really feel..a post of mine from ragingbull

Roberts's decision was not based on any tax law in the Constitution. ​

The Constitution only allows the House to write a Tax Bill, this was written in the Senate. The Constitution expressly forbids any taxes other than excise, per capita, and income​

made possible by the 16 Amendment. Roberts's Tax is what I call the OR ELSE tax. YOu do what Gov tells you or else you pay a tax. Sounds like a penalty to me. But Roberts knows best. ​

The Dissent was livid. This Roberts opinion is close to Dred Scott in its utter stupidity. He tried to be cleaver and in his ignorance and that of the idiots that just wanted this liberal butt wiping legislation, he overturned 255 years of Tax law. In doing so, he made the 16 Amendment unnecessary, even though the Constitution forbid any tax that was not apportioned. Income is not apportioned but progressive. Tax Scholars have no idea how to interpret this ruling. ​

But what it does do is now open up to citizens the right to dispute the tax on secondary grounds. By that, the only cases I know of that beat the Federal Tax were those that were linked to the First Amendment. ​

IRS has already decided that no religious exemptions will be approved without ALSO vacating all claims to Social security​

. This is typical IRS writing their own laws. But now this one can be challenged and beat. IRS has no authority to write law only to promulgate rules. But IRS is always out of control. The liberals that did this should be hung. They have violated the Constitution. I also think there is a good case to challenge this law by mass non-compliance on that grounds that it is not a tax because it does not qualify as a Tax under the Constitution and therefore IRS has no jurisdiction over it. But it will never happen!​

I think Romney is going to win. His poll numbers in all Swing states have skyrocketed.Money ​

is pouring in. Even young people are now realizing that this bill screws them to the wall for nothing ​

250 million in the USA already have insurance. All this crap is to insure 20 million that don't have insurance and 30 million illegals. Its nothing. To say there was a mandate is false. ​

Liberals are idiots..​