Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crashing

Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Oh I see... So I can say that if Bush hadn't passed the Patriot Act, 200 million Americans would have died in a nuclear attack on the states. That's awesome clark! I can make any ludicrous accusation I want and never have to substantiate any of my claims... All I have to say when challenged is, "You cannot prove a negative, and you know it."


Actually I did have a solution then but you weren't here to read my thoughts on the subject. If anyone is continuing to do what they did wrong in the first place, it's people like you that support the corporatist system and our mixed market economy. How many bubbles need to burst, how many companies will have to be bailed out, how much federal debt must we rack up, before you begin to question the rationality of your position?
I'm trying to figure out if your a capitalist, libertarian or what. I believe corporations should be heavily regulated, foreign and domestic, as well as wall street. I am totally againsed the method of renumeration used by the financial industry-especially the securities firms. I think the SEC should be bolstered by the extra accountants that will be available when the IRS is shut down because we went to a national sales tax. I think it should be illegal for investment banks to own securities companies, for insurance companies to own their own reinsurance companies, for mortgage companies to sell their mortgages to other financial inst. without retaining some responsibility. I believe that corp that move overseas get taxed in relation to the number of jobs they take with them and that importers are subject to the same laws governing manufacturing that we do.
 
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Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

I think it should be illegal ........ for mortgage companies to sell their mortgages to other financial inst. without retaining some responsibility.

Why?

I believe that corp that move overseas get taxed in relation to the number of jobs they take with them

That will simply drive them out of business because of being at a disadvanatge with their international competitors, and everyone who has a job with them will be out of work.



and that importers are subject to the same laws governing manufacturing that we do.

They'll take their trade elsewhere, and raise barriers to our exports.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

I'm trying to figure out if your a capitalist, libertarian or what. I believe corporations should be heavily regulated, foreign and domestic, as well as wall street. I am totally againsed the method of renumeration used by the financial industry-especially the securities firms. I think the SEC should be bolstered by the extra accountants that will be available when the IRS is shut down because we went to a national sales tax. I think it should be illegal for investment banks to own securities companies, for insurance companies to own their own reinsurance companies, for mortgage companies to sell their mortgages to other financial inst. without retaining some responsibility. I believe that corp that move overseas get taxed in relation to the number of jobs they take with them and that importers are subject to the same laws governing manufacturing that we do.

I can buy into some of your "beliefs". The SEC needs to be considerably beefed up. I like the Fair Tax Plan. Investment banks, securities companies, the banking system in-general, and Wall Street in-general, all need to be reeled back in. The Federal Reserve System needs to be abolished. A balanced budget amendment to the U.S. Constitution must be passed.

I don't believe that most corporations need to be "heavily regulated", whatever that means. I also don't buy into taxing of corporations that move overseas and levying some kind of "penalty" tax for taking jobs overseas. The logistics of doing that would be a nightmare.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Credit was frozen before TARP. There was no money to loan since nearly all banks were on the brink of insolvancy, especially the large one's. You do know that all banks must have a percentage of liquid assets to offset the loans they make? They didn't have this, AIG, their insurance company that backed their loans, was insolvent. If there had been a bank run all the major banks would have defaulted.

See? You can support statements about a negative.

But are you right?

Here is a story that says otherwise:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...happened-and-tarp-accounting-was-a-lie-2010-9

"Monday was the second anniversary of the failure of Lehman Brothers. And it was two years ago tomorrow that Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke met with the Congressional leadership in a conference room on Capital Hill, telling them that the entire economic system would cease to function if they didn't pass a bailout bill. One of the things Paulson and Bernanke told the members -- something that was repeated over and over, and continues to be repeated -- was that the credit markets were "frozen." Banks, they said, would not lend to each other. If this were true, it would be very bad indeed.

But it wasn't true. The credit markets were not "frozen." Banks were lending to each other. The credit markets were functioning. And now we have a study, by two economists from the NY Fed and one from MIT, that proves it. In "What Happened to US Interbank Lending In the Financial Crisis?," Gara Afonso, Anna Kovner and Antoinette Schoar show that despite claims of a credit "freeze," it never happened. Some theoretical studies, they note, suggest that fear in the interbank markets could be contagious and would lead to a total freeze, but the authors of this study simply looked at the available data. (Crazy, I know.) "

Is this merely a matter of hindsight being 20/20 or did reasonable people know this even at the time?
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn. The credit freeze threat faded BECAUSE of TARP. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Why?



That will simply drive them out of business because of being at a disadvanatge with their international competitors, and everyone who has a job with them will be out of work.





They'll take their trade elsewhere, and raise barriers to our exports.
Mortgage companies sell their toxic debt to other companies so they can continue selling toxic loans, maybe you were born after 2007, but that is one of the big reasons many banks failed.
Maybe the companies will fail, or maybe they will find ways to do business in the country that buys and makes their goods, either way, it is the same system our trading "partners" use. I do not believe a business moves only for the company profit, but for individual personal gain of a few entitled corporate officers and select stockholders, putting some kind of impediment in the system may make them think twice. And these other manufacturing nations are going to sell the stuff where? We are the market, the US is the biggest consumer in the world, on this point, and this point alone I will concede Trump as being right.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Mortgage companies sell their toxic debt to other companies so they can continue selling toxic loans, maybe you were born after 2007, but that is one of the big reasons many banks failed.

If investors were stupid enough to buy them, why shouldn't they sell them? Your viewpoint is like saying stockbrokers should be heavily regulated, because at some point they sold a stock to someone who want to buy it, and the stock later declined in value. :D

You are completely confusing yourself by focussing on the proximate "cause", instead of the ultimate cause: leftwing meddling in the housing market. Calling for more "regulation" is like calling for more of the poison that made the patient sick in the first place.

And these other manufacturing nations are going to sell the stuff where? We are the market, the US is the biggest consumer in the world, on this point, and this point alone I will concede Trump as being right.

Your view is vintage 1955. India, china, and other countries are rapidly growing in wealth and demand for consumer goods. China, like the US, is becoming its own market.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

I realize FOX told you all about the leftwing meddling in the housing market. Let me be more specific. The mortgage lenders sold their loans not just to make a profit, but to rid themselves of the toxic debt they had intentionally incurred, thus freeing up liquid capital to fund even more toxic debt and continue doing so until they felt the time was right to stop, but their greed did not allow for them to stop, so they got busted. The financial institutions that bought the debt were doing the same thing but with a twist, they would bundle the loans, divide the interest and sell them as securities which we know as "derivatives", again always planning to sell off the toxic debt before the bill came in, and again, greed prevented this. To fund the buying and selling of all these mortgages requires a percentage of liquid capital held in reserve to cover the purceived amount of loan default normally associated with that type of loan and derivative, this is where we get such terms as "AAA" rated. Unfortunately, the loans were vastly overrateddue to fraudulent estimates. To make matters worse, insurance companies, most notably AIG gave out huge policies to cover these loans, over reaching itself, AIG purchased re-insurance. Unfortunately, AIG owned their own re-insurance company, so in effect, they were insuring themselves with their own money. With the fall of Leymann Bros. the books of all banks came under suspicion, and, as it turned out, for good reason. The real value of the loans became increasingly obvious, the money trail became much clearer when the derivatives came under scrutiny and the feces hit the blades when it was discovered that AIG did not have the assets to cover the policies on the loans that went worldwide and it was discoverewd that 4 of the top 5 banks in the world were unsolvent. Fannie may and Freddie Mac were only end users, they had nothing to do with the daily selling of mortgages, the impetus was not on serving some government mandate but only the personal greed of an industry whose system of renumeration not only causes but encourages fraud, legal fraud more often than not.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

I realize FOX told you all about the leftwing meddling in the housing market.

HA HA HA! You can always tell when a lib is panicking - he throws the "Fox" card. :D

Let me be more specific. The mortgage lenders sold their loans not just to make a profit, but to rid themselves of the toxic debt they had intentionally incurred, thus freeing up liquid capital to fund even more toxic debt and continue doing so until they felt the time was right to stop, but their greed did not allow for them to stop, so they got busted.

For someone who pretends to know so much about the subject, you appear clueless. All primary lenders >>>EVER<<< do is resell mortgages to secondary markets. If such secondary markets didn't exist, probably not a single 30 year mortgage would ever have been given even to qualified borrowers in normal times.

The financial institutions that bought the debt were doing the same thing but with a twist, they would bundle the loans, divide the interest and sell them as securities which we know as "derivatives", again always planning to sell off the toxic debt before the bill came in, and again, greed prevented this.

How did they do that? By holding a gun to the heads of the people who bought the securities? Noooooooooo..........

The people who bought the securities saw how Fanny Mae, the organization which >>>CREATED<<< the market for subprimes, was making trainloads of money, and they wanted part of the action - the investment banks responded to the demand. While you're charging everyone and his second cousin with being greedy, you mysteriously leave those investors off the greed bandwagon. :D


To fund the buying and selling of all these mortgages requires a percentage of liquid capital held in reserve to cover the purceived amount of loan default normally associated with that type of loan and derivative, this is where we get such terms as "AAA" rated. Unfortunately, the loans were vastly overrateddue to fraudulent estimates.

You leave out who made a "fraudulent", as opposed to "wrong", estimate. Anyone who was a victim of fraud has the right to bring legal actions against the defrauders.

To make matters worse, insurance companies, most notably AIG gave out huge policies to cover these loans, over reaching itself, AIG purchased re-insurance. Unfortunately, AIG owned their own re-insurance company, so in effect, they were insuring themselves with their own money.

So AIG was mismanaged - your point there would be what?

With the fall of Leymann Bros. the books of all banks came under suspicion, and, as it turned out, for good reason. The real value of the loans became increasingly obvious, the money trail became much clearer when the derivatives came under scrutiny and the feces hit the blades when it was discovered that AIG did not have the assets to cover the policies on the loans that went worldwide and it was discoverewd that 4 of the top 5 banks in the world were unsolvent. Fannie may and Freddie Mac were only end users, they had nothing to do with the daily selling of mortgages, the impetus was not on serving some government mandate but only the personal greed of an industry whose system of renumeration not only causes but encourages fraud, legal fraud more often than not.

I didn't say Fanny Mae had anything with the daily selling of mortgages, but they were the enablers of those who did, in promising to be a secondary market for those who DID - without that promise, no primary lender would have ever given a single subprime mortgage. The investment banks, as I said, got in in response to investor demand after FM had created the market. And FM created the market on orders from Clinton, whose democrat congress vastly expanded the scope of the CRA in 1992.

In trying to ascribe the 2008 meltdown as something that was due to only the events you describe, you're trying to pretend the whole play was just the final act.

It's about like saying lots of people drowned when the Titanic sunk because the crew loaded the lifeboats slowly. In fact, the Titanic US economy was heading for collapse the moment it steered a course for an iceberg labeled CRA. :D
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Enablers? My god man, we created a system where fraud is legal and you think this is a good thing? You think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made these people steal? You think just because they were not prosecuted they were not guilty? The entire world in the tank because of the unrestricted avarice of an American industry bent on individual gratification and you cannot see that a reason to change the system? Good news, the Congress will require mort lenders to hold mort. for a longer length of time before they can sell them and the the percentage of liquid assets required will be increased according to new estimates of loan values with the passage of the next set of rules.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Enablers? My god man, we created a system where fraud is legal and you think this is a good thing? You think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made these people steal? You think just because they were not prosecuted they were not guilty? The entire world in the tank because of the unrestricted avarice of an American industry bent on individual gratification and you cannot see that a reason to change the system? Good news, the Congress will require mort lenders to hold mort. for a longer length of time before they can sell them and the the percentage of liquid assets required will be increased according to new estimates of loan values with the passage of the next set of rules.

Do you want to give us an example where the system creates legal fraud or stealing?

I would be in favor of making laws to outlaw fraud and stealing. But not to make regulations to regulate fraud and stealing.

Do you oppose stealing even if it is legal? Like taxes for example?
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Do you want to give us an example where the system creates legal fraud or stealing?

I would be in favor of making laws to outlaw fraud and stealing. But not to make regulations to regulate fraud and stealing.

Do you oppose stealing even if it is legal? Like taxes for example?
What was the penalty for all the mort writers who lied on the applications? Too many to get caught, they are just unemployeed now. What was the penalty for the rating houses who didn't rate the derivatives low enough? What was the penalty for all the managers who knowingly processed bad loans? They took the money and split. There were never enough regulations or regulators, Reagan took care of that. I oppose all theft in the financial system, I take great offense at their method of renumeration, I think they should have more skin in the game when they are playing with other peoples money. You have to take continuing education to maintain your license don't you? Isn't ethics a mandatory class? First chapter deals with the conumdrum of fuducuiary ethics, is it right to make a profit for the client that would ultimately be bad for the economy. The question is never answered. I wish to regulate and make this an answerable question. The previous post say what I would want.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Enablers? My god man, we created a system where fraud is legal and you think this is a good thing? You think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made these people steal? You think just because they were not prosecuted they were not guilty? The entire world in the tank because of the unrestricted avarice of an American industry bent on individual gratification and you cannot see that a reason to change the system? Good news, the Congress will require mort lenders to hold mort. for a longer length of time before they can sell them and the the percentage of liquid assets required will be increased according to new estimates of loan values with the passage of the next set of rules.

You are >>>WILDLY<<< confused. :D The 2008 crash didn't come about because of fraud, although fraud there was as a by-product, it came about because of


>>>>>>>>>>BAD LOANS TO UNQUALIFIED BORROWERS<<<<<<<<<<<<<

which in turn came from the democrat party trying to overturn market forces by fiat, in service to their minority political clients.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

What was the penalty for all the mort writers who lied on the applications? Too many to get caught, they are just unemployeed now. What was the penalty for the rating houses who didn't rate the derivatives low enough? What was the penalty for all the managers who knowingly processed bad loans?

What was the penalty to the democrat party for starting the whole mess by having Fanny Mae tell lenders they would purchase subprime loans?? :D
 
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Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Armageddon must be approaching.

Clark and Rick are both correct. Both of you make very valid points.

The whole thing is an endless web of graft, corruption, and greed.

There are so many "entities" to blame, it would take forever to list all of the "players".
 
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