Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crashing

Little-Acorn

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President Obama is back to maximum campaign mode, liberally sprinkling lies where they will do the most good... or harm, depending on whether you're concerned with re-election or concerned for your country.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/obama-courts-latino-voters-with-immigration-speech/

He just finished a speech in Texas, supposedly on the problems of illegal immigration. I haven't finished going thru the speech yet, but every example I've heard him give so far for "immigrants" who helped the country, has cited LEGAL immigrants as the good guys. And of course the NY Times is carrying the same water dutifully, pretending the problem is one of LEGAL immigration instead of the real problem, illegal immigration.

It's almost as if Obama wants to tell people:

1.) There's no difference between legal immigrants and illegal aliens who crash the border. That's like saying there's no difference between Granny depositing and withdrawing money from her bank account, and a thug who robs the place at gunpoint or an embezzler who steals it all.

2.) People who oppose his plans (i.e. Republicans), are opposing LEGAL immigrants, instead of opposing the illegal aliens crashing the border by the millions.

I have a question for him: If the only way you can make your opponents look bad is to lie about what they say and support... what does that tell you about what the opponents actually DO say and support?

It's the same old shuck-and-jive we had to deal with last decade. Then, these liars and con artists promoted exactly this line of falsehoods and deceptive twists of the truth, until huge numbers of Americans rose up, called and wrote their Congressmen, and finally got the amnesty plans thrown out of Congress.

Looks like the con men didn't get the hint. Apparently a repeat of Nov. 2, 2010 will be needed, more than once, to get rid of this silliness once and for all.
 
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Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

This carpetbagging Chicago machine politician doesn't care about FACTS. He cares about getting re-elected, and that is all. Period.

Obama is a disgrace, and anybody who votes for him in 2012 should be deported to Mexico.

I learned a long time ago to never underestimate the stupidity and ignorance of the average American voter. I am rarely disappointed in that belief.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Wow, quite an endictment from a party that did NOTHING about illegal immigration. Obama has sent the national guard to the border of Mexico, deportations are up by 40% over the Bush admin., the Border Patrol has been hugely increased, illegal crossing is down substancially. If a person puts his life on the line for us in the military, it has always been the policy to make them a citizen, but not now! The ingrates in the GOP are againsed that! They don't want to do anything to make a path to citizenship for the 11 million illegals but at the same time they make no plan what to do with them otherwise. What's it gonna be guys? You gonna make a police state out of the US to force them back? Come up with a viable plan and I'll listen, otherwise save your posturing and baiting for the low IQ folks in your electorate.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Come up with a viable plan and I'll listen
End the welfare state for all persons born in the US after Jan. 1, 2012 and on Jan 1, 2013, institute an open immigration policy (not to be confused with an open borders policy). Make sure it's clear to all US citizens and incoming immigrants that anyone born, or naturalized, in the US after Jan. 1, 2012 have no "rights" to taxpayer money of any kind.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

deportations are up by 40% over the Bush admin.

I would like to have more information on that so we can judge it.

So far I have been unable to find your stat. I did find a stat that said that deportations for illegals with a criminal record are up 40% in the pacific northwest.

But I also found a stat that said that deportation dismissals is up 700%.

If an illegal is taken into custody, counted as deported, then the case is dismissed, can it be counted as a deportation? If so that would explain both numbers.

One other thing explains both numbers; the rule of large percentages and small samples. Simply speaking, if two people are in a room and one leaves we can say that 50% of the people in the room left. But if a thousant people are in a room and one leaves then the percent that left is very small.

If the number of criminal illegals being deported is small then it is easy to raise the number by 40%. And if the number going through the process is small then it is also easy to have the rate of dismissals go up by 700%.

This is consistent with what we have been told about police being stopped from asking if a person they stop is legal and border patrols being asked to look the other way.

But if the number of criminal illegals is large then it would be very hard to raise that number by 40% and even harder to raise the number of them who had their cases dismissed by 700%.

(for example if we read this article we will see numbers like 94% but we will also see numbers like in this paragraph:

"During the most recent 12 month period for which data are available, a total of 128 detainees housed at the U.S. Detention And Deportation Holding Facility left that facility because they were deported, were released under supervision while their cases were being decided, or left ICE detention for one of a variety of other reasons.")
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/detention/200803/SPMHOLD/exit/

Did you all get that? That facility only processed 128 individuals and of them only a small percent actually went back to their country of origin. For the rate of deportation to go up 40% the facility would have only had to have processed a slightly smaller number last year. For example if the facility processed 85 people last year and 40% more this year then 85 x .40 = 34 more, so 85 + 34 = 119. Most important when the facility finished processing those people they were said to have "exited" which 28% of the time means they went back to their country of origin.

Lets find a stat on the total increase in deportations of all kinds that end up with people actually going back to another country and that shows the raw numbers as well as the percent.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Wow, quite an endictment from a party that did NOTHING about illegal immigration. Obama has sent the national guard to the border of Mexico, deportations are up by 40% over the Bush admin., the Border Patrol has been hugely increased, illegal crossing is down substancially. If a person puts his life on the line for us in the military, it has always been the policy to make them a citizen, but not now! The ingrates in the GOP are againsed that! They don't want to do anything to make a path to citizenship for the 11 million illegals but at the same time they make no plan what to do with them otherwise. What's it gonna be guys? You gonna make a police state out of the US to force them back? Come up with a viable plan and I'll listen, otherwise save your posturing and baiting for the low IQ folks in your electorate.

Here are the FACTS (something you consistently ignore):

A. Obama stated yesterday that the border fence is completed. Is that true? No.......it's a lie. Only 36.3 miles of the 700 mile U.S./Mexico "double-layer" border fence is completed. Even if the entire 700 mile fence were completed, there would still be over 1300 miles of open border between the U.S. and Mexico.

B. Obama sent "up to" 1200 National Guard troops to the U.S. border for "logistical" and "intelligence" support. These troops are not actively enforcing U.S. immigration laws. They are basically there to shuffle papers.

Deportations (total, criminals and non-criminals, from various sources)
Fiscal year 2008: 369,221
Fiscal year 2009: 387,790
Fiscal year 2010: 392,862

C. According to my math, these numbers are nowhere close to a 40% increase. Maybe my calculator is malfunctioning?

Total number of Border Patrol agents, September/2008: 17,499
Total number of Border Patrol agents, April/2011: 20,745

D. Should this <20% increase in Border Patrol agents be classified as "huge"?

E. About 300,000 illegal immigrants entered the United States each year from 2007 to 2009, down from roughly 850,000 who entered annually from 2000 to 2005. Looks like Bush had a lot to do with this decrease.

So, clarkatticus, once again your outdated Obama Playbook has betrayed you. When you spout your contrived and false statistics, without any kind of verification, and when somebody (like me) takes the time to expose your lies and partisan political clap-trap, it's really a lot of fun (for me), so please keep spewing your nonsense.

You are a perfect example of somebody who lacks the integrity and intellectual honesty to verify what the Obama media and the Obama teleprompter feeds you. In the end, your credibility dives towards zero.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

A. Obama stated yesterday that the border fence is completed. Is that true? No.......it's a lie.

He can be pretty smooth when it comes to telling the truth while it appears to be what people want to hear. I would like to see the quote.

D. Should this <20% increase in Border Patrol agents be classified as "huge"?

Yes, I would call that huge. Of course if one wants to boost employment numbers, increase the government work force, increase government spending, appear to be hard on illegal immigration while not actually being hard on illegal immigration one could put a huge number of new people on the border and instruct them not to arrest many illegals.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

He can be pretty smooth when it comes to telling the truth while it appears to be what people want to hear. I would like to see the quote.

You asked for it. Here are excerpts from Obama's speech in El Paso on May 10, 2011. I've taken the liberty of highlighting some of his lies and B.S.


Remarks of President Barack Obama – As Prepared for Delivery
Immigration and Border Security
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
El Paso, Texas


Hello, El Paso! It's great to be back here with all of you, and to be back in the Lone Star State. I love coming to Texas. Even the welcomes are bigger down here. So, to show my appreciation, I wanted to give a big policy speech… outdoors… right in the middle of a hot, sunny day.

I hope everyone is wearing sunscreen.

Now, about a week ago, I delivered the commencement address at Miami Dade Community College, one of the most diverse schools in the nation. The graduates were proud that their class could claim heritage from 181 countries around the world. Many of the students were immigrants themselves, coming to America with little more than the dreams of their parents and the clothes on their backs. A handful had discovered only in adolescence or adulthood that they were undocumented. But they worked hard and gave it their all, and they earned those diplomas.

It was a reminder of a simple idea, as old as America itself. E pluribus, unum. Out of many, one. We define ourselves as a nation of immigrants – a nation that welcomes those willing to embrace America's precepts. That's why millions of people, ancestors to most of us, braved hardship and great risk to come here – so they could be free to work and worship and live their lives in peace. The Asian immigrants who made their way to California's Angel Island. The Germans and Scandinavians who settled across the Midwest. The waves of the Irish, Italian, Polish, Russian, and Jewish immigrants who leaned against the railing to catch that first glimpse of the Statue of Liberty.

This flow of immigrants has helped make this country stronger and more prosperous. We can point to the genius of Einstein and the designs of I. M. Pei, the stories of Isaac Asimov and whole industries forged by Andrew Carnegie.

And I think of the naturalization ceremonies we've held at the White House for members of the military, which have been so inspiring. Even though they were not yet citizens, these men and women had signed up to serve. One was a young man named Granger Michael from Papua New Guinea, a Marine who deployed to Iraq three times. Here's what he said about becoming an American citizen. "I might as well. I love this country already." Marines aren't big on speeches. Another was a woman named Perla Ramos. She was born and raised in Mexico, came to the United States shortly after 9/11, and joined the Navy. She said, "I take pride in our flag … and the history we write day by day."

That's the promise of this country – that anyone can write the next chapter of our story. It doesn't matter where you come from; what matters is that you believe in the ideals on which we were founded; that you believe all of us are equal and deserve the freedom to pursue happiness. In embracing America, you can become American. And that enriches all of us.

Yet at the same time, we are standing at the border today because we also recognize that being a nation of laws goes hand in hand with being a nation of immigrants. This, too, is our heritage. This, too, is important. And the truth is, we've often wrestled with the politics of who is and who isn't allowed to enter this country. At times, there has been fear and resentment directed toward newcomers, particularly in periods of economic hardship. And because these issues touch on deeply held convictions – about who we are as a people, about what it means to be an American – these debates often elicit strong emotions.

That's one reason it's been so difficult to reform our broken immigration system. When an issue is this complex and raises such strong feelings, it's easier for politicians to defer the problem until after the next election. And there's always a next election. So we've seen a lot blame and politics and ugly rhetoric. We've seen good faith efforts – from leaders of both parties – fall prey to the usual Washington games. And all the while, we've seen the mounting consequences of decades of inaction.

Today, there are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. Some crossed the border illegally. Others avoid immigration laws by overstaying their visas. Regardless of how they came, the overwhelming majority of these folks are just trying to earn a living and provide for their families. But they've broken the rules, and have cut in front of the line. And the truth is, the presence of so many illegal immigrants makes a mockery of all those who are trying to immigrate legally.

Also, because undocumented immigrants live in the shadows, they're vulnerable to unscrupulous businesses that skirt taxes, pay workers less than the minimum wage, or cut corners with health and safety. This puts companies who follow those rules, and Americans who rightly demand the minimum wage or overtime or just a safe place to work, at an unfair disadvantage.

Think about it. Over the past decade, even before the recession, middle class families were struggling to get by as costs went up but incomes didn't. We're seeing this again with gas prices. Well, one way to strengthen the middle class is to reform our immigration system, so that there is no longer a massive underground economy that exploits a cheap source of labor while depressing wages for everyone else. I want incomes for middle class families to rise again. I want prosperity in this country to be widely shared. That's why immigration reform is an economic imperative.

In recent years, among the greatest impediments to reform were questions about border security. These were legitimate concerns; it's true that a lack of manpower and resources at the border, combined with the pull of jobs and ill-considered enforcement once folks were in the country, contributed to a growing number of undocumented people living in the United States. And these concerns helped unravel a bipartisan coalition we forged back when I was a United States Senator. In the years since, "borders first" has been a common refrain, even among those who previously supported comprehensive immigration reform.

Well, over the past two years we have answered those concerns. Under Secretary Napolitano's leadership, we have strengthened border security beyond what many believed was possible. They wanted more agents on the border. Well, we now have more boots on the ground on the southwest border than at any time in our history. The Border Patrol has 20,000 agents – more than twice as many as there were in 2004, a build up that began under President Bush and that we have continued.

They wanted a fence. Well, that fence is now basically complete.

So, we have gone above and beyond what was requested by the very Republicans who said they supported broader reform as long as we got serious about enforcement. But even though we've answered these concerns, I suspect there will be those who will try to move the goal posts one more time. They'll say we need to triple the border patrol. Or quadruple the border patrol. They'll say we need a higher fence to support reform.

Maybe they'll say we need a moat. Or alligators in the moat.

They'll never be satisfied. And I understand that. That's politics.

But the truth is, the measures we've put in place are getting results. Over the past two and a half years, we've seized 31 percent more drugs, 75 percent more currency, and 64 percent more weapons than before. Even as we've stepped up patrols, apprehensions along the border have been cut by nearly 40 percent from two years ago – that means far fewer people are attempting to cross the border illegally.

Beyond the border, we're also going after employers who knowingly exploit people and break the law. And we are deporting those who are here illegally. Now, I know that the increase in deportations has been a source of controversy. But I want to emphasize: we are not doing this haphazardly; we are focusing our limited resources on violent offenders and people convicted of crimes; not families, not folks who are just looking to scrape together an income. As a result, we increased the removal of criminals by 70 percent.

That is not to ignore the real human toll. Even as we recognize that enforcing the law is necessary, we don't relish the pain it causes in the lives of people just trying to get by. And as long as the current laws are on the books, it's not just hardened felons who are subject to removal; but also families just trying to earn a living, bright and eager students; decent people with the best of intentions. I know some here wish that I could just bypass Congress and change the law myself. But that's not how a democracy works. What we really need to do is keep up the fight to pass reform. That's the ultimate solution to this problem.

And we should stop punishing innocent young people for the actions of their parents – by denying them the chance to earn an education or serve in the military. That's why we need to pass the Dream Act. Now, we passed the Dream Act through the House last year. But even though it received a majority of votes in the Senate, it was blocked when several Republicans who had previously supported the Dream Act voted no.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

You asked for it. Here are excerpts from Obama's speech in El Paso on May 10, 2011. I've taken the liberty of highlighting some of his lies and B.S.



They wanted a fence. Well, that fence is now basically complete.

Even as we've stepped up patrols, apprehensions along the border have been cut by nearly 40 percent from two years ago – that means far fewer people are attempting to cross the border illegally.

Now, I know that the increase in deportations has been a source of controversy. But I want to emphasize: we are not doing this haphazardly; we are focusing our limited resources on violent offenders and people convicted of crimes; not families, not folks who are just looking to scrape together an income. As a result, we increased the removal of criminals by 70 percent.

That is not to ignore the real human toll. Even as we recognize that enforcing the law is necessary, we don't relish the pain it causes in the lives of people just trying to get by. And as long as the current laws are on the books, it's not just hardened felons who are subject to removal; but also families just trying to earn a living, bright and eager students; decent people with the best of intentions. I know some here wish that I could just bypass Congress and change the law myself. But that's not how a democracy works. What we really need to do is keep up the fight to pass reform. That's the ultimate solution to this problem.

And we should stop punishing innocent young people for the actions of their parents – by denying them the chance to earn an education or serve in the military. That's why we need to pass the Dream Act. Now, we passed the Dream Act through the House last year. But even though it received a majority of votes in the Senate, it was blocked when several Republicans who had previously supported the Dream Act voted no.

Thanks for posting that:)

I would have to say that saying the wall is basically complete is not the same as saying it is complete. Though clearly it is not even basically complete.

I would add that based on what parts of his speech I left in it is clear that deportations were not claimed to be up 40%. Apprehensions were down 40%. Which is exactly what would happen if one just stopped trying to arrest people who crossed illegally. It would seem that President Obama's conclusion is a lie though his statement is not. We should all be able to see that Obama is saying that he will only arrest criminals and will leave everyone else alone.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Thanks for posting that:)

I would have to say that saying the wall is basically complete is not the same as saying it is complete. Though clearly it is not even basically complete.

I would add that based on what parts of his speech I left in it is clear that deportations were not claimed to be up 40%. Apprehensions were down 40%. Which is exactly what would happen if one just stopped trying to arrest people who crossed illegally. It would seem that President Obama's conclusion is a lie though his statement is not. We should all be able to see that Obama is saying that he will only arrest criminals and will leave everyone else alone.

Clarkatticus claimed that deportations were up 40%, and I proved that to be a lie. Clarkatticus claimed a lot of things that were not true, and that is what my original response was mostly about.

Obama claimed that the border fence was "basically complete", which I proved was a lie, unless about 5% completion qualifies as "basically complete".

Obama's speech was about twice as long as what I posted, but I had to shorten it because of forum "character" limitations. I edited out much of the pandering and political clap-trap.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Obama ended Boeing's contract for building the fence because the parts they built proved unusable, despite Boeing's denial. Perhaps you would like to waste a few more billion, I don't. So the fence we have is the only fence we will have, except for a few modifications. ICE removals in 2007 were 291,060, so Bush waited until his last year in office to get with the program. In his speech he clearly states a difference of opinion with you, like him I believe children of illegals should be educated even in the current fiscal climate. I do not believe uneducated teens will find anything constructive to do in later years. While your pat answer is to deport them, the actual ability of any government short of a police state to do this is laughable. Present ICE estimates put the amount of illegals in the US at 10.8 million, down from 11.8 million in 2007. How many are children are anybodys guess but the economic result of that many uneducated trolling the streets along with the crime rate sounds like a receipe for disaster. You are right about my mistake in the deportation figures, I used the number from 2006 as a guide, should have used 2009. A 20% increase in border patrol along with the national guard assuming logistic duties ends up with 25+% more border patrol on the border, not in the office. Obama comes up with a good response, what more do you want? We are in hard financial times, the worst since the 30's. If you think that illegal immigration is the root cause then you have fallen for the misdirection intended for your gullible ears, instead of blaming the economy on greed and avarice of the American financial sector, you have willingly let your base fears of "foreign" people having it in for us. It would be comical were it not for the irony.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

Obama ended Boeing's contract for building the fence because the parts they built proved unusable, despite Boeing's denial. Perhaps you would like to waste a few more billion, I don't. So the fence we have is the only fence we will have, except for a few modifications. ICE removals in 2007 were 291,060, so Bush waited until his last year in office to get with the program. In his speech he clearly states a difference of opinion with you, like him I believe children of illegals should be educated even in the current fiscal climate. I do not believe uneducated teens will find anything constructive to do in later years. While your pat answer is to deport them, the actual ability of any government short of a police state to do this is laughable. Present ICE estimates put the amount of illegals in the US at 10.8 million, down from 11.8 million in 2007. How many are children are anybodys guess but the economic result of that many uneducated trolling the streets along with the crime rate sounds like a receipe for disaster. You are right about my mistake in the deportation figures, I used the number from 2006 as a guide, should have used 2009. A 20% increase in border patrol along with the national guard assuming logistic duties ends up with 25+% more border patrol on the border, not in the office. Obama comes up with a good response, what more do you want? We are in hard financial times, the worst since the 30's. If you think that illegal immigration is the root cause then you have fallen for the misdirection intended for your gullible ears, instead of blaming the economy on greed and avarice of the American financial sector, you have willingly let your base fears of "foreign" people having it in for us. It would be comical were it not for the irony.

This a perfect example of the illogical mumbo-jumbo that we have come to expect from the Obamanistas.

1. Obama cancelled the contract for the border fence because of shoddy materials used by the contractor (Boeing). The logical answer, if you are an Obamanista, is to cancel the contract with Boeing, not bother with hiring a new contractor, and declare that the border fence is completed.

2. The children of the illegal aliens who illegally live and work in the United States, are "entitled" to free education, free health care, free food, free housing, and all of the rights that U.S. citizens are entitled to. To an Obamanista, this is logical, practical, and an obligation that the U.S. citizen taxpayers must fulfill.

3. Obama can only do so much to increase border security. After all, we are in tough economic times (which have gotten much worse since Obama became President).

4. If you're an Obamanista, use the illegal immigration issue as a battering ram and an accusatory tool, so you can falsely accuse a non-Obamanista of using the illegal immigration problem as the "root cause" of the economic problems in the U.S.

5. If you're an Obamanista, the end game is to blame the bad economy on the "greed and avarice of the American financial sector", while ignoring the FACT that it was the Obamanistas who used taxpayer money and borrowed money to BAIL OUT these same "greedy" financial sector entities. It was also the Obamanistas who enacted failed "economic stimulus" programs like "cash for clunkers" and home buyer rebates and home owner refinancing programs and Obamacare and extending unemployment benefits and a host of other "lipstick on a pig" programs.

The Obamanistas can run, but they can't hide. The truth will set them free, and that is why the Obamanistas are all prisoners of their own ignorance and blind faith in a failed Presidency and a failed economic philosophy.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

A fence is an anachronistic stupid way of dealing with the invasion. The smart way is to go after the employers who hire them. If this is done in an effective way, 90% of them would be gone in a year.
 
Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

A fence is an anachronistic stupid way of dealing with the invasion. The smart way is to go after the employers who hire them. If this is done in an effective way, 90% of them would be gone in a year.

When the employers are as shady and "underground" as the illegals are, how is law enforcement supposed to go after them?

The best thing to do is make it VERY dangerous for the illegals to cross our borders. Double-barrier border fences, 40 feet high, with razor wire, guard towers equipped with 50 caliber automatic weapons every 100 feet, and orders to shoot to kill.
 
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Re: Obama in TX speech carefully confuses legal immigration with illegal border-crash

The GOP is talking out their arse. They would have done the same thing Obama did with his stimulus plan, probably given it to their friends though. Remember the stimulus checks Bush passed out? Boy, that sure helped things. TARP was passed and formed by Bush and his treasury dept so that turd sandwich is theirs. And as far as I can tell, we have been adding jobs since March 2009, Wall St has gained 7000 points, GM and all it's purveyors still exist and the GOP contenders are not looking so good. I'm not going to go into "too big to fail", you know my opinion on that, but I believe Obama did the right thing.As far as the illegal immigration debate, it only comes up when the economy is bad, nothing gets done when the economy is good.
 
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