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Islamic Denial

Discussion in 'House of Debates' started by Gipper, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. nobull

    nobull Member

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    There seems to be a new approach developing in the dialogue between Christians and Muslims. More and more, people are asking, “What Would Jesus Do?” Those asking the question, however, are not Christians, but rather, Muslims. They are trying to remind Christians that their intolerance of Islamic ideology is somehow un-Christian because, certainly, Jesus would seek peace, turn the other cheek, and love His enemies.

    It is easy (and deceptive) to find “proof quotes” to support almost any pre-conceived agenda – whether it is a Christian agenda or a Muslim agenda. It is also true that the Messiah (as Jesus is called in the Quran) was a advocate of peace – not the peace of willing or unwilling surrender (Surah 3:83), but the peace that is free from worry or fear. (John 14:27) Jesus spoke kindly to people regardless of their race or their own personal sins, but that doesn’t mean he condoned their sins. He insisted that people stop their sinning and repent. (John 8:11)
    With that caution in mind, let’s consider some of the hot-button issues dividing Christians and Muslims.

    What would Jesus and Muhammad do regarding: Separation of Church and State, Personal Responsibility, Praying in Public, Hypocrisy and Deceit, Stoning and other punishments, Killing in the Name of God, etc. (Since Muhammad is the “good example” of Islamic practice, what he would do is represented either by texts from the Quran or the authoritative Hadith.)

    The Purpose of their Missions:

    Jesus: “The thief comes only in order to steal, kill, and destroy. I have come in order that you might have life — life in all its fullness.” (John 10:10)

    Muhammad: “I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me. 1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month’s journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum (washing ones face and hands with soil), therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me. 4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection). 5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.” (Bukhari, Vol. 7, Number 331)

    Power and Might:

    Jesus: [When promised the world by Satan if he would bow to him,] “Go away, Satan! The Scripture says, ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” (Matthew 4:10) “All those who take the sword will die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)


    Muhammad: “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” (Bukhari, Vol. 4, Number 220)



    Separation of Church and State:

    Jesus: “Pay to the Emperor what belongs to the Emperor, and pay to God what belongs to God.” (Luke 20:19-26)

    Muhammad: Those you serve besides Allah are nothing but names which you and your fathers have devised and for which Allah has revealed not sanction. Judgment rests only with Allah. (Surah 12:40) Allah will not let the unbelievers triumph [rule] over the faithful. (Surah 4:142)

    Personal Responsibility:

    Jesus: “Anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)

    Muhammad: Prophet, enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their veils close around them. That is more proper, so that they may be recognized and not be molested. (Surah 33:59)

    Praying in Public:

    Jesus: Make certain you do not perform your religious duties in public so that people will see what you do. If you do these things publicly, you will not have any reward from [God] in heaven.” (Matthew 6:1)

    Muhammad: “Believers, when you are summoned to Friday [public] prayers hasten to the remembrance of God and cease your trading.” (Surah 62:9) [Friday was market day in Medina, so the market place was filled with shoppers. Calling the prayer at noon on Friday would maximize the visibility of the Muslims going to prayer. The Surah reveals that Muhammad was annoyed that some preferred commerce and merriment to public worship.]

    Hypocrisy and Deceit:

    Jesus: “How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look fine on the outside but are full of bones and decaying corpses on the inside. In the same way, on the outside you appear good to everybody, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and sin.” (Matthew 23:27)

    Muhammad: Allah is the supreme plotter. (Surah 3:54) Allah is profound in his machinations. (Surah 8:30) Allah is the master of all scheming. (Surah 13:42)

    Stoning and other Punishments:

    Jesus: [To the woman caught in adultery] “I do not condemn you, but do not sin again.” (John 8:11) [Regarding eye-for-an-eye punishments,] “Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you.” (Matthew 5:38 )

    Muhammad: [When a woman repented from adultery, Muhammad allowed her to have her baby and wean him, and then he pronounced his judgment:] And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her [to death]. (Muslim, Book 17, Number 4206) Believers, retaliation is decreed for you in bloodshed. . . In retaliation you have a safeguard for your lives; perchance you will guard yourselves against evil. (Surah 2:178 – 180)

    Killing in the Name of God:

    Jesus: “The time will come when anyone who kills you will think that by doing this he is serving God. People will do these things to you because they have not known either [God] or me. But I have told you this, so that when the time comes for them to do these things, you will remember what I told you.” (John 16:2-4)

    Muhammad: Allah has purchased from the faithful their lives and worldly goods and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for the cause of Allah, slay and be slain. Such is the true promise which He has made them in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran. [This is actually NOT true.] And who is more true to his pledge than Allah? [See “Hypocrisy and Deceit,” above.] Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. (Surah 9:111)

    Facts do matter
    doug
  2. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Why are you trying to change the subject? You stated above that Christians are just as dangerous as Muslims, which is exactly what Fat Rosie said. So, you and Rosie have that in common, which is why I mentioned her. Are you backing away from this statement now?

    It is apparent you do not understand Muslims or their religion. The radical Islamist is without doubt killing in the name of their God. Mohammed tells them to kill all unbelievers and they do as they are told. Did Jesus say the same?
  3. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Do Christian fathers slit the throats of their raped daughters? It seems to happen quite often in the Muslim world, but I wonder...Christians probably do it too....:rolleyes:
  4. Alias

    Alias Active Member

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    Seems like the left is grasping at straws by attempting to show Christian terrorism as equal to Islamic terrorism. It's evident that anyone who would attempt something as ludicrous as that doesn't understand Islam or Christian Doctrines, but is simply trying to inject political correctness which is in my opinion totally nuts.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/08/04/“christian-terrorism”/
  5. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    What is it that you believe made Nazi Germany a "Christian" nation?
  6. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    It is more than grasping at straws. They want to denigrate and demonize Christianity...which they have done for some time now.

    Yes, it certainly is part political correctness, but also part moral equivalence. If they can equate the murderous religion known is Islam with the peaceful religion known as Christianity, that makes them happy and helps in their effort to secularize the world.
  7. Alias

    Alias Active Member

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    Bullseye. Well said.
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I bet if I wanted to waste my time I could get three times your list on the poor treatment of christians. But its not worth the time

    Here is one of the ones on your list that I think I know what happened.

    • Nov. 28, 2010 – Portland, Oregon
    An inmate at the county jail allegedly used anti-Muslim slurs and assaulted another inmate.

    I was reading about a case like this during the same time. There were actually a few of them in all the big prisons here.

    Muslims demanded that no more bacon or pork of any kind be served to any inmate because they didn't want to chance any pork come near their food.
    So when all the non muslims got bacon taken away and sausage, there was a revolt.

    It was not because he was muslim, it was because that group demanded everyone must go without something they like because this group was too special to take a chance on letting the bacon touch a pan that might later cook something he eats
  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Historically, Chritianity is ANYTHING but a peaceful religion!

    And. . . I am a Christian, just not a blind or hypocritical one!

    Were the Crusaders "peaceful?"

    Was the Spanish inquisition "peaceful?"

    Were the Jesuite following their "mission" in Mexico "peaceful?"

    Were the high hierarchy in the Catholic Church "peaceful" in their attitude toward Hitler's treatment of the Jews?

    Are the extreme pro-life murderers of doctors who perform LEGAL abortion "peaceful?"

    Are the pedophile priests and ministers "peaceful?"

    Is there much "peace" in the Bible?. . .

    Jesus was peaceful. His followers not necessarely.

    All religion are only as good as their followers. . .and unfortunately, in all religions there are extremists.
  10. Alias

    Alias Active Member

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    The Crusades were a response to the Islamic invasions of Christian and Jewish lands. The Islamists were forcing people to convert or die.

    Of course there are atrocities commited by people, but Christian doctrine is one of love, peace, and forgiveness. No so with Islam. Islamic doctrine is bigoted, violent and misogynistic.

    The Quran gives husbands instructions on how to beat their wives. You can't find that in the New Testament.

    There is no comparison in this day and age between Christianity and Islam. Islamists are conducting a world-wide Jihad. No western country is safe. You can't say the same thing about Christianity.
  11. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    "Islamists" are not conducting a "world wide Jihad!" Islamic terrorists are!

    And. . .apparently not many Islamic countries are safe from the US! We have no business attacking countries to impose OUR beliefs.

    The crusades were described by CHRISTIANS, not seen by MUSLIMS!

    Jesus was a man of peace. . . but didn't he have to stop "well meaning" Jews from stoning a woman? It may be a good time, in this thread that seems to exist only to bash Islam, to remember Jesus' famous quote about "throwing the first stone?"

    Did JESUS ever said a word against homosexuality? No. . .MEN have found ways to give interpretation to Old Testament's "quotes" to impose their homophobia on our society.

    EVERY religion is manmade, so it is imperfect. Did you know that Mahommet's wife was his employer, and that she was the "head" of the family? If manmade dogmas, in all religions, were replaced by the respect, love, and common sense taught by many of the great religious figures in every religions, the world would be a much better place.

    Do you remember how women were treated only 150 years ago? Do you realize that still today, the Catholic Church refuses to ordain women?

    We do not have a history of treating women very well either. . .and if we listen to "Fundamentalists" Christian women would go back to the dark age too!
  12. Alias

    Alias Active Member

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    Actually, Jesus told us very clearly what a human sexual relationship was and it was not a homosexual one. Jesus never endorsed homosexuality. He was very clear on the human sexual relationship in Matthew 16: “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

    It's very clear in the New Testament when it says "Husbands love your wives". There is nothing in the New Testament instructing men on how to beat their wives. The Quran gives explicit instructions on how to beat their wives. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/003-wife-beating.htm
  13. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    We are not debating history. We are debating current events.

    If you like Pockets and Fat Rosie think Christians today are just as murderous as Muslims, make your case or quite mucking up the thread.
  14. bododie

    bododie New Member

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    Make a choice:

    Go into a room unarmed, with an armed radical Muslim and tell him you are a Christian.

    OR

    Go into a room, unarmed, with an armed radical Christian, and tell him you are a Muslim.

    Who do you think would kill you? One, both, neither?

    Just curious.

    We're talking about TODAY, not living in the past as some are inclined to do.
  15. steveox

    steveox Well-Known Member

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    Its time to have another National Holiday. When Yom Kippur comes lets Burn Korans. On Yom Kippur everyone finds a Koran and burn it!

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