Is Western culture being destroyed?

[Jarlaxle]

...which is what plenty of the homophobes WANT, whether they admit it or not.

 

[Coyote]

Pedophilia is the modern witch hunt. It's a crime that so offends us, our culture, our sensabilities, frightens parents and is socially abhorrent that all reason flies when accusations are made. It is very like the Salem witch trial events.

 

[numinus]

The Family Research Center is a pretty biased source....with a very clear anti-homosexual agenda. I did try to pick neutral sources when making my argument.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind:

Pedophilia is concerned primarily with pre-adolescent children. It's called something else when you enter adolescence and then you start getting into a grey area - such as statuatory rape and the characteristcs of the offender are different.

Sex crimes against children and adolescents are committed primarily by men. No surprise there. However - as that one article showed, most of those men are heterosexual in orientation even if they preyed upon a male child.

Thus - even if most cases are committed against boys - that doesn't mean the perpetrator was homosexual.

I was concerned with the statistics.

A fraction of the 1-3 percent population -- that of homosexual pedophile males -- account for a third of all child sexual molestation. That is indeed disproportionate.

 

[numinus]

See, right here you've got a fallacy: that men that commit sex crimes against male children are homosexual in outlook. In addition the author is likely lumping adolescents and children in one group to make his point when the causes and characteristics differ enough that there is a different term for it.

I'm sorry but the statistic is quite clear. Unless of course you can show statistics that pedophile females account for the majority of sexual molestation in boys.

 

[numinus]

Drag queen?

I should've guessed you're infatuated with me.

 

[Coyote]

I'm sorry but the statistic is quite clear. Unless of course you can show statistics that pedophile females account for the majority of sexual molestation in boys.

I showed you an article - that came from a neutral source and showed that the majority of men in that one survey, who committed molestation against boys were heterosexual.

I am not arguing that females account for much of anything in this.

What you are trying to say is:

any man who commits any sort of sexual act with another male is a homosexual

does that mean any man who commits any sort of sexual act with a female is heterosexual?

what does that say about those who do both, or primarily one or the other?

for example - if a man is heterosexual in self-identification and adult relationships and molests a little boy - does that then make him homosexual?

Homosexual is both an adjective and a noun. The noun applies to a very small percentage of the overall population. The adjective describes the act, not the orientation necessarily.

 

[numinus]

Pedophilia is the modern witch hunt. It's a crime that so offends us, our culture, our sensabilities, frightens parents and is socially abhorrent that all reason flies when accusations are made. It is very like the Salem witch trial events.

It is a fact. However one wants to interpret fact is not my concern. My main concern is to demonstrate how mare interprets fact in a way that does not coincide with logic.

Mare assumes that my being catholic necessarily follows that I argue on the basis of catholic dogma. It doesn't matter how many times I post the udhr, I am still a bible-beater trying to impose my religion on everyone else.

 

[Coyote]

It is a fact. However one wants to interpret fact is not my concern. My main concern is to demonstrate how mare interprets fact in a way that does not coincide with logic.

Well...I think you're doing a bit of that too...

Mare assumes that my being catholic necessarily follows that I argue on the basis of catholic dogma. It doesn't matter how many times I post the udhr, I am still a bible-beater trying to impose my religion on everyone else.

That is true. I'll be the first to agree that you (and Pale as well) avoid bringing religion into your arguments. It's actually rather refreshing as there is nothing worse then the dead end of "well the bible says so so it's true" type of debate.

 

[numinus]

I showed you an article - that came from a neutral source and showed that the majority of men in that one survey, who committed molestation against boys were heterosexual.

I am not arguing that females account for much of anything in this.

What you are trying to say is:

any man who commits any sort of sexual act with another male is a homosexual

By definition, yes.

does that mean any man who commits any sort of sexual act with a female is heterosexual?

By definition, yes.

what does that say about those who do both, or primarily one or the other?

A bi.

for example - if a man is heterosexual in self-identification and adult relationships and molests a little boy - does that then make him homosexual?

Yes.

Homosexual is both an adjective and a noun. The noun applies to a very small percentage of the overall population. The adjective describes the act, not the orientation necessarily.

I do not see the point in muddling the issue. What do you call a woman who masturbates with a dildo? From your reasoning -- neither, since the object of pleasure is a thing.

So, what exactly is a sexual orientation?

 

[numinus]

Well...I think you're doing a bit of that too...

Not at all. I brought this child molestation thing up to demonstrate what I said I wanted to demonstrate. Nothing more.

I have said before that I have homosexual friends. Their sexual preference neither bothers me nor hinders my friendship with them.

 

[Coyote]

By definition, yes.

A bi.

Then he is neither homo or hetero.

I do not see the point in muddling the issue. What do you call a woman who masturbates with a dildo? From your reasoning -- neither, since the object of pleasure is a thing.

So, what exactly is a sexual orientation?

It isn't muddying the issue to seek clear terminology.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with masturbating with a dildo - apples and oranges.

What exactly is sexual orientation? That is a good question with no clear-cut answers. For example - it's not uncommon for adolescents to sexually experiment with the same sex. Does that make them bi or homo if in adulthood they remain hetero?

Wikipedia defines it as follows:

Sexual orientation refers to "an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others,"[1] usually conceived of as classifiable according to the sex or gender of the persons whom the individual finds sexually attractive. The most common forms exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality (being sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex) to exclusive homosexuality (being sexually attracted to members of the same sex) and includes various forms of bisexuality (being sexually attracted to members of either sex).[1]

Most definitions of sexual orientation include a psychological component (such as the direction of an individual's erotic desire) and/or a behavioral component (which focuses on the sex of the individual's sexual partner/s). Some prefer simply to follow an individual's self-definition or identity.

More recently, scholars of sexology, anthropology and history have argued that social categories such as heterosexual and homosexual are not universal. Different societies may consider other criteria to be more significant than sex, including the respective age of the partners, the sexual role played by each partner (such as active or passive), or the social status of the partners.

Sexual identity and sexual behavior are closely related to sexual orientation, but they are distinguished, with identity referring to an individual's conception of themselves, behavior referring to actual sexual acts performed by the individual, and orientation referring to "fantasies, attachments and longings."[2] Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.[3] People whose sexual identity does not align with their sexual orientation are sometimes referred to as closeted.

Sexual identity may also be used to describe a person's perception of his or her own sex, rather than sexual orientation. The term sexual preference has a similar meaning to sexual orientation, but is more commonly used outside of scientific circles by people who believe that sexual orientation is, in whole or part, a matter of choice.

 

[numinus]

Then he is neither homo or hetero.



It isn't muddying the issue to seek clear terminology.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with masturbating with a dildo - apples and oranges.

What exactly is sexual orientation? That is a good question with no clear-cut answers. For example - it's not uncommon for adolescents to sexually experiment with the same sex. Does that make them bi or homo if in adulthood they remain hetero?

Wikipedia defines it as follows:

Sexual orientation refers to "an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others,"[1] usually conceived of as classifiable according to the sex or gender of the persons whom the individual finds sexually attractive. The most common forms exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality (being sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex) to exclusive homosexuality (being sexually attracted to members of the same sex) and includes various forms of bisexuality (being sexually attracted to members of either sex).[1]

Most definitions of sexual orientation include a psychological component (such as the direction of an individual's erotic desire) and/or a behavioral component (which focuses on the sex of the individual's sexual partner/s). Some prefer simply to follow an individual's self-definition or identity.

More recently, scholars of sexology, anthropology and history have argued that social categories such as heterosexual and homosexual are not universal. Different societies may consider other criteria to be more significant than sex, including the respective age of the partners, the sexual role played by each partner (such as active or passive), or the social status of the partners.

Sexual identity and sexual behavior are closely related to sexual orientation, but they are distinguished, with identity referring to an individual's conception of themselves, behavior referring to actual sexual acts performed by the individual, and orientation referring to "fantasies, attachments and longings."[2] Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.[3] People whose sexual identity does not align with their sexual orientation are sometimes referred to as closeted.

Sexual identity may also be used to describe a person's perception of his or her own sex, rather than sexual orientation. The term sexual preference has a similar meaning to sexual orientation, but is more commonly used outside of scientific circles by people who believe that sexual orientation is, in whole or part, a matter of choice.

And a child molester preying on boys isn't an '...enduring sexual attraction...'?

 

[Coyote]

And a child molester preying on boys isn't an '...enduring sexual attraction...'?

To children.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

No. I was merely wondering if you need a psych evaluation for this -- unlike club foot, cleft palate, etc. etc., which you obviously don't. I asked because I read it somewhere a long time ago.

I see that no answer is forthcoming.

I actually answered this question quite a while ago when you first brought it up. Gender Dysphoria can be caused by a number of things, before one is allowed to transition it's required by the AMA guidelines (the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care) for each person to have so many months of Master's level counseling and follow-up with a Doctorate level counselor before reassignment surgery. Before, during and after counseling is very beneficial because transition is quite difficult--primarilly due to the extreme level of cultural antagonism and the complex and contadictory laws that vary from state to state and are sometimes in conflict with Federal regulations.

As I said before, Nums, I know a lot about this subject and I'm willing to share the information I have if someone asks honest questions.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You don't know the laws that govern the marital institution presently?

The laws vary from place to place, from time to time, and there are secular laws and religious laws, national laws and international agreements. Depending on the arena in which you are operating one can define things differently. A case in point is that in two States it is legal for gay people to marry, in several States they can have civil unions, but in two thirds of the States there are constitutional bans on gay marriage--but some of those States allow civil unions and some do not. Your question was black and white, but the answer cannot be.