In Defense of Capitalism & Free Markets

It tells much about you that you choose to make such comments without seeing the film that I posted.
I responded to the very weak argument you made against Capitalism and "Free Enterprise" in relation to the food industry.

Would you not feel like a fool if the film did not actually exist?
You should feel like the fool for not reading the OP.... Please listen carefully,

I actually did see the movie last year because my sister was flipping out after seeing it. There is nothing in the movie that makes an argument against Capitalism or Free Markets.

If you believe otherwise then you don't know what Capitalism and Free Markets are and you should read the OP.

It is our current "mixed" market economy that teams government with corporations allowing for the economic and political profit of the elites to be placed above individual rights and consumer protection.

Capitalism creates a "wall of separation" between economy and state. Under Capitalism, government serves as your bodyguard against all those who would violate your rights. Under the current "mixed" economy, government serves as the best friend and business partner of those who would violate your rights for a quick buck or chance at re-election.... Yet it is Capitalism that is demonized and the "mixed" market that is praised.

For God's sake! Watch the film and then make your comments!
Again, nowhere in the movie is an argument against Capitalism or Free Markets, therefore asking me to respond to a movie that was not arguing against the two things I'm here to defend is simply a red herring.
 
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"I want the people of America to be able to work less for the government and more for themselves. I want them to have the rewards of their own industry. This is the chief meaning of freedom. Until we can re-establish a condition under which the earnings of the people can be kept by the people, we are bound to suffer a very severe and distinct curtailment of our liberty." --President Calvin Coolidge

Liberals and Progressives are incapable of comprehending that statement.

Why?

Is it because the p-schools have effectively brainwashed them? Or is it because they are feeble minded which leads them to wanting government to take care of them? Or could it be jealousy of those who succeed by hard work that they so love income redistribution?

Whatever it is, it is most harmful and counterproductive.
 
I responded to the very weak argument you made against Capitalism and "Free Enterprise" in relation to the food industry.


You should feel like the fool for not reading the OP.... Please listen carefully,

I actually did see the movie last year because my sister was flipping out after seeing it. There is nothing in the movie that makes an argument against Capitalism or Free Markets.

If you believe otherwise then you don't know what Capitalism and Free Markets are and you should read the OP.

It is our current "mixed" market economy that teams government with corporations allowing for the economic and political profit of the elites to be placed above individual rights and consumer protection.

Capitalism creates a "wall of separation" between economy and state. Under Capitalism, government serves as your bodyguard against all those who would violate your rights. Under the current "mixed" economy, government serves as the best friend and business partner of those who would violate your rights for a quick buck or chance at re-election.... Yet it is Capitalism that is demonized and the "mixed" market that is praised.


Again, nowhere in the movie is an argument against Capitalism or Free Markets, therefore asking me to respond to a movie that was not arguing against the two things I'm here to defend is simply a red herring.

So, what you are saying, for those like me who are slow, is that the current current economic system in the USA is not Free Market Capitalism, but a perversion of such as demonstrated in the movie?
 
"Any social policy or system that violates individual rights is not Capitalism."

Erm, capitalism itself very often violates individual as well as societal rights.

So are you saying that capitalism isn't capitalism?
 
They can't.

At least not in a logical or truthful fashion.

Oh really?

toxic_waste_barrels.jpg
 
So, what you are saying, for those like me who are slow, is that the current current economic system in the USA is not Free Market Capitalism, but a perversion of such as demonstrated in the movie?

That is exactly what I'm saying, we do not have Free Markets or Capitalism, we have a "mixed" economy:

Mixed economy:

The characteristics of a market economy and command economy combine to form a mixed economy. It incorporates elements of both socialism and capitalism. In a mixed economy state owned enterprises and privately owned enterprises co-exist. The economic activities in such an economic system are controlled neither by the business entities that comprise market forces nor by the government. In a mixed economy both these come together and ensure economic development.

As per basic definition of mixed economy, it is an economic system that has incorporated elements of more than one type of economic system. A major example of a mixed economy is the United States of America.

If you were serious about not knowing that America is a "mixed" economy, I hope the realization encourages you to gain a better understanding of what Capitalism and Free Markets really are all about - Protecting individual rights.
 
"Open market/Capitalism" is an abstraction that is ill-defined, ambiguous, and that creates considerable cognitive dissonance due to the fact that it means different things to different people.

In addition, it was not really a founding fathers principle. The more noteworthy proponents of free-market capitalism came along after our country was founded.

The founding fathers believed in private ownership of property and in limited government, but I don't see where it was written that there can not be a public interest that is served by the government intervening in certain transactions. Granted, they would turn over in their graves to know what a fascist, totalitarian state we have become, but that doesn't mean they would have been opposed to any and all government regulation of certain markets.

I think it's kind of ridiculous to think in terms of "rights" to an "open market," the way some free-market capitalists do. Does anyone seriously think that God is a free-market capitalist? I sure don't. I think it's crazy even to think that God believes in private ownership of property. That kind of thinking is motivated by the most mindless and shallow of political thinking (which, I suppose, is redundant), and by the total confusion of the ontic with the ontological, for which all organized religions are notorious. Hey, I believe in God, and I believe in capitalism, but I don't believe that God believes in capitalism - that's just too silly for words. There is no spiritual path that is predicated on private ownership of property.

So, that being the case, there is no God-given "right" to a free market. That is just something that we (i.e. humankind) made up. It's all made up. So, there's no "morality" to it. There is nothing immoral about communism - in theory. In practice, communist governments have been brutal, oppressive and racist/prejudiced in one way or another, but that's not a result of the public ownership of property. The big problem with communism was not that it was immoral; the problem was that, on a large scale, it just didn't work, because it ran contrary to human behavior.

But, on a small scale, it can work. Isn't that essentially the kind of economy that the Amish in PA have? On a small scale, where there is a sense of community, it is possible for people to feel a sense of responsibility to one another, and to act in ways that further the common good, even at the price of foregone profits to the individual.

For the most part, I think that the kind of lust-driven hyper-capitalism that we have today is a by-product of the anonymity created by a very large economy. It's a lot harder to rape and plunder in your own community, because someone is liable to kill you. But, if you do it to people thousands of miles away, you can get away with it.

What I believe in is the right of people in local communities to organize their lives in ways that work for them. But, even that is not really a "god-given" right; that is also something that is "made up." But, I believe in it, because I believe that the local community is the most important economic and political unit in the human experience and in human history. I think it creates the most emotional and spiritual stability that the whole (i.e., society) can provide the one. So, for that reason, I defend the "right" of the Amish to live in a communal economy..

regards
doug
 
capitalism itself very often violates individual as well as societal rights.
Capitalism is a system that limits government to protecting individual rights. If government policy violates individual rights, then neither the government in question nor it's policy can be considered to be Capitalist.

There is no such thing as societal rights, only individual rights. Please, argue against me on the topic of Capitalism and Individual Rights... I welcome all challengers.
 
Capitalism is a system that limits government to protecting individual rights. If government policy violates individual rights, then neither the government in question nor it's policy can be considered to be Capitalist.

There is no such thing as societal rights, only individual rights. Please, argue against me on the topic of Capitalism and Individual Rights... I welcome all challengers.

No such thing as societal rights? Au contraire, dude. Society has plenty of rights, such as the right to determine our laws. "We the people" does not mean 'me the individual'. Capitalism is an economic system, not a system of government. Capitalism is regulated by the government (the government being "we the people"), not the other way around. Here is what happens when capitalism isn't regulated or improperly regulated by government:

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When capitalism is allowed to do as it pleases, both individual and societal rights (as well as the health and safety of the individual and society at large) are frequently violated.

You, sir, are arguing for Anarcho-capitalism, which is about as extremist as capitalism gets.
 
In Defense of Capitalism & Free Markets

It is what has allowed people to get rich and live comfortably.

It is no ones fault if you are not willing to go the extra mile to get there for yourself.

It was MY CHOICE to educate MYSELF to allow me to EARN MY DESERVED WAGES.

It is not the fault of the rich that I am not as rich as they are

It is not my fault that I am better off than some of you are!
.... it is IN FACT MY REWARD for efforts well done to the point I PERSONALLY got to!

Either side of this fact is more or less bull!
 
You are correct!
Society has plenty of rights, such as the right to determine our laws. "We the people" does not mean 'me the individual'. Capitalism is an economic system, not a system of government. Capitalism is regulated by the government (the government being "we the people"), not the other way around.

You, sir, are arguing for Anarcho-capitalism, which is about as extremist as capitalism gets.
Corporate entities think it's JUSTICE ... when in fact it is their version of JUST US!
 
It is what has allowed people to get rich and live comfortably.

It is no ones fault if you are not willing to go the extra mile to get there for yourself.

It was MY CHOICE to educate MYSELF to allow me to EARN MY DESERVED WAGES.

It is not the fault of the rich that I am not as rich as they are

It is not my fault that I am better off than some of you are!
.... it is IN FACT MY REWARD for efforts well done to the point I PERSONALLY got to!

Either side of this fact is more or less bull!

Do you believe that you are being paid as much as you deserve? Do you know anyone who believes that they are being paid what they deserve? You don't get to decide what you are worth. The rich do that for you. (So much for individual rights in a capitalist society, eh Gen?). Do you believe that it is the fault of the poor that they are poor (especially in an economy with at least 10% unemployed)? Do you believe that it is the fault of a starving child that it is starving? Do you believe that it is the fault of the working poor that their emnplyer doesn't pay them enough to afford health insurance or the outrageous prices we pay for medical care (we don't have the best health care system in the world. We are 37th on that list)? The rich have no more right to be outrageously rich than the poor have to be outrageously poor.
 
"Law empowers no one, but diminishes all, and an abundance of law is the imposition of slavery with chains unseen."

I take it that you subscribe to Anarchy Quarterly. Congratulations.
 
Do you believe that you are being paid as much as you deserve? Do you know anyone who believes that they are being paid what they deserve? You don't get to decide what you are worth. The rich do that for you. (So much for individual rights in a capitalist society, eh Gen?). Do you believe that it is the fault of the poor that they are poor (especially in an economy with at least 10% unemployed)? Do you believe that it is the fault of a starving child that it is starving? Do you believe that it is the fault of the working poor that their emnplyer doesn't pay them enough to afford health insurance or the outrageous prices we pay for medical care (we don't have the best health care system in the world. We are 37th on that list)? The rich have no more right to be outrageously rich than the poor have to be outrageously poor.

I am 52 and have been retired 5 or 6 years ... and just a couple weeks ago I bought a 1974 Corvette with 4 on the floor - a 350 under the hood with Edelbrock Intake and two Edelbrock four barrel carbs - and Malory Ignition.

I would say that in the middle of this Tuesday afternoon - I am doing just fine!

and I know business owners who have not taken much of any money out of a few of their corporations - and are still flying all over the place in their own planes!

"Law empowers no one, but diminishes all, and an abundance of law is the imposition of slavery with chains unseen."

I take it that you subscribe to Anarchy Quarterly. Congratulations.

So - you think that Legislating freedom does not deminish another persons freedom?

IF YOU DO ... that is so screwed! :eek: ... FOR EVERYONE!
 
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... and I did mention as a retired guy ... I only bothered myself with a GED

... since you are so well schooled and think you are smarter than I am

WHY aren't you retired hot shot??
 
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