Ever wonder whats wrong with the Democratic Party

[BigRob]

I believe this is an excellent example of the game we are having run on us.

Europe is fairly strong economically, and Greece and Spain are part of the zone. Europe is going to digest the ills of the southern tier, and no doubt there will be haircuts for everyone.

We are looking at a nation where retirement is at 53, with an 80% pension. Making adjustments is certainly a reasonable expectation.

In other words, yes, there are issues. Will Greece disappear or become a province of Germany? Nah.

Yes there is a crisis. Is it an end of the world crisis? Nope.

Of course it is not the end of the world...but austerity cuts don't just need to happen if the government doesn't go crazy.

Overspending has led to an artificial and unsustainable standard of living...and that is going to be forced to change...the fact that they had such a posh system is part of why they are struggling now. It will not last.

 

[GenSeneca]

You are so limited in your understanding of the world! Obviously, you have never left your little corner of the U.S., and you believe that, anywhere else in the world, is inferior to the US

I haven't even offered an opinion on the topic and you're already attacking?

we need Chinas 1 child per couple law!

Then you...

I am also for a big, huge campaign on birth control education, including tying of the tubes (for both men and women) after 2 or 3 children.

Steve is in favor of using governments monopoly on the legal use of force to limit the number of children legally allowed in a family, are you in favor of this as well?

 

[ProudLefty]

Of course it is not the end of the world...but austerity cuts don't just need to happen if the government doesn't go crazy.

Overspending has led to an artificial and unsustainable standard of living...and that is going to be forced to change...the fact that they had such a posh system is part of why they are struggling now. It will not last.

Just to be sure we are understanding each other - I believe the overspending is pretty much these things:

1. Unprovoked attack upon Iraq
2. Poor response to 9/11, resulting in failure and malaise in Afghanistan
3. a gift to pharma of Medicare Part D that was not paid for.
4. tax cuts given hastily and lavishly with no effort made to offset with spending reductions

.

If we can fix those things, much of the problem goes away; not all of it, but much of it.

I blame Obama for not getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan fast enough, but at least he is starting in that direction, and those costs are falling.

I believe the current ACA, coupled with the ability to negotiate drug prices will help. A lot.

As to the tax cuts... who, exactly, is it that wants those cuts kept? Not the poor, not the middle class. And I am beginning to wonder if the rich are still in favor of these tax cuts. Warren Buffett, a really rich guy, says these cuts are ridiculous and wrong. My bet is that he is not alone in his position.

So, suddenly, the whole huge problem goes away and what is left is a small problem, easily dealt with.

Tell me where I am wrong, OK?


As to the "posh system" part of your comments... What would be an example of that posh system? I do not understand where that comes from.

 

[dogtowner]

I believe this is an excellent example of the game we are having run on us.

Europe is fairly strong economically, and Greece and Spain are part of the zone. Europe is going to digest the ills of the southern tier, and no doubt there will be haircuts for everyone.

We are looking at a nation where retirement is at 53, with an 80% pension. Making adjustments is certainly a reasonable expectation.

In other words, yes, there are issues. Will Greece disappear or become a province of Germany? Nah.

Yes there is a crisis. Is it an end of the world crisis? Nope.

not for long.

and you will note that those countries in the eurozone that are in relatively good shape have been trimming government welfare over the past decade or so. they are becoming less socialist (if marginally) while Obama would have us far more socialist than we already were.

 

[steveox]

I haven't even offered an opinion on the topic and you're already attacking?



Then you...



Steve is in favor of using governments monopoly on the legal use of force to limit the number of children legally allowed in a family, are you in favor of this as well?

You bet,,Cause we cant afford to be a nanny state anymore.

 

[Openmind]

not for long.

and you will note that those countries in the eurozone that are in relatively good shape have been trimming government welfare over the past decade or so. they are becoming less socialist (if marginally) while Obama would have us far more socialist than we already were.

The thing is that THEY can afford to "trim government welfare" some! Their safety net is extremely intensive and people are well taken care of.

We don't really have much of a safety net at all, so we don't have much to trim! In fact, many of the program that they are just "trimming" in Europe, are totally non-existent in the U.S., so we couldn't save money on those items!

And the Euro continues to climb, while the dollars continues to decline! Why do you think that is? Do you think it might be because the rest of the world see Europe and the Euro as "more fragile" than the U.S.?

I don't think so!

 

[BigRob]

Just to be sure we are understanding each other - I believe the overspending is pretty much these things:

Unprovoked attack upon Iraq
Poor response to 9/11, resulting in failure and malaise in Afghanistan
a gift to pharma of Medicare Part D that was not paid for.
tax cuts given hastily and lavishly with no effort made to offset with spending reductions

If we can fix those things, much of the problem goes away; not all of it, but much of it.

We can end the wars, and still not have a balanced budget. We can raise taxes, and still not have a balanced budget.

We are going to have to address Social Security, Medicare, etc, or we will never solve the spending issue.

I blame Obama for not getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan fast enough, but at least he is starting in that direction, and those costs are falling.

Yes, but that won't balance the budget.

I believe the current ACA, coupled with the ability to negotiate drug prices will help. A lot.

As to the tax cuts... who, exactly, is it that wants those cuts kept? Not the poor, not the middle class. And I am beginning to wonder if the rich are still in favor of these tax cuts. Warren Buffett, a really rich guy, says these cuts are ridiculous and wrong. My bet is that he is not alone in his position.

I like the tax cuts.

I could be in favor of ending them, if I saw an actual plan in place to cut spending as well.

So, suddenly, the whole huge problem goes away and what is left is a small problem, easily dealt with.

Tell me where I am wrong, OK?

I would need to see real numbers in terms of everything you laid out...especially if you want to claim that would end the problem.

As to the "posh system" part of your comments... What would be an example of that posh system? I do not understand where that comes from.

Retirement at 53 with 80% pension sounds pretty posh to me.

 

[BigRob]

The thing is that THEY can afford to "trim government welfare" some! Their safety net is extremely intensive and people are well taken care of.

We don't really have much of a safety net at all, so we don't have much to trim! In fact, many of the program that they are just "trimming" in Europe, are totally non-existent in the U.S., so we couldn't save money on those items!

And the Euro continues to climb, while the dollars continues to decline! Why do you think that is? Do you think it might be because the rest of the world see Europe and the Euro as "more fragile" than the U.S.?

I don't think so!

I think it is somewhat related to the fact that we continue to print money with no concern for what it does to the value of the dollar.

The more dollars we just print, the better the EURO is going to keep looking.

 

[Openmind]

I think it is somewhat related to the fact that we continue to print money with no concern for what it does to the value of the dollar.

The more dollars we just print, the better the EURO is going to keep looking.

I am certain that you are correct about the senseless printing of money. However it is not the whole culprit.

We have been looking at EVERY country in the world as inferior to ours, for decades now. We got very comfortable with that "patriotic" feeling that we are exceptional, that no one could catch up with us.

And there are still people who insist in keeping their head in the sand!

The fact is that, over those decades, the other countries have not only caught up, but have over taken us in many areas. Infrastructure is one of them, health care is another, and education is the third.

I don't like to say this. But the fact is that, if we do not look at the reality, if we don't want to realize what our complete confidence in our exceptionalism is doing to us, we will NOT fix it!

If we believe that we are the best, the brightest, the richest, why would we even try to fix things and to compete with those countries who have not overtaken us in so many ways!

And it is not just in economics and social issues. Look at our once invinsible sport arena! Yes, we are still the greatest in AMERICAN football! Well, that maybe because we are basically the only ones playing it and thus we compete against ourselves!

But look at tennis, swimming, soccer, almost all the olympics sports.

I do not take great joice in stating those facts, but if we keep on closing our eyes, we will just keep on going down.

 

[ProudLefty]

I am certain that you are correct about the senseless printing of money. However it is not the whole culprit.

We have been looking at EVERY country in the world as inferior to ours, for decades now. We got very comfortable with that "patriotic" feeling that we are exceptional, that no one could catch up with us.

And there are still people who insist in keeping their head in the sand!

The fact is that, over those decades, the other countries have not only caught up, but have over taken us in many areas. Infrastructure is one of them, health care is another, and education is the third.

I don't like to say this. But the fact is that, if we do not look at the reality, if we don't want to realize what our complete confidence in our exceptionalism is doing to us, we will NOT fix it!

If we believe that we are the best, the brightest, the richest, why would we even try to fix things and to compete with those countries who have not overtaken us in so many ways!

And it is not just in economics and social issues. Look at our once invinsible sport arena! Yes, we are still the greatest in AMERICAN football! Well, that maybe because we are basically the only ones playing it and thus we compete against ourselves!

But look at tennis, swimming, soccer, almost all the olympics sports.

I do not take great joice in stating those facts, but if we keep on closing our eyes, we will just keep on going down.

Bingo, Openmind! Well said, and spot on.

Many people in the World see American Patriotism as really being jingoism, not patriotism.

Definition of JINGOISM
extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy

American Republicans certainly do have a chauvinistic attitude towards Europe, and see themselves as being super-patriots because they do not let reality change their mind.

It is too bad. America can learn so much from Europe's trials and tribulations as they have glued their European Union together.

 

[Stalin]

It is a sad day when money is more important than children.

Comrade STalin

 

[BigRob]

I am certain that you are correct about the senseless printing of money. However it is not the whole culprit.

We have been looking at EVERY country in the world as inferior to ours, for decades now. We got very comfortable with that "patriotic" feeling that we are exceptional, that no one could catch up with us.

And there are still people who insist in keeping their head in the sand!

The fact is that, over those decades, the other countries have not only caught up, but have over taken us in many areas. Infrastructure is one of them, health care is another, and education is the third.

I don't like to say this. But the fact is that, if we do not look at the reality, if we don't want to realize what our complete confidence in our exceptionalism is doing to us, we will NOT fix it!

If we believe that we are the best, the brightest, the richest, why would we even try to fix things and to compete with those countries who have not overtaken us in so many ways!

And it is not just in economics and social issues. Look at our once invinsible sport arena! Yes, we are still the greatest in AMERICAN football! Well, that maybe because we are basically the only ones playing it and thus we compete against ourselves!

But look at tennis, swimming, soccer, almost all the olympics sports.

I do not take great joice in stating those facts, but if we keep on closing our eyes, we will just keep on going down.

I can agree that other nations are certainly catching up economically etc. No nation is going to remain a superpower simply because, you have to continually innovate, grow, etc.

But, turning towards Europe for a moment. Look at the differences in handling the economic crisis.

France, the UK, Japan (not Europe but similar), Greece, Spain, Iceland, Ireland etc etc are all making cuts. By sharp contrast, look at the United States. We are continuing down this Keynesian path of spend spend spend (and the cuts never do come).

Comparing growth rates between the US and the EU (as an average), it is hard to conclude that all that spending has really gotten us anything..except more debt and a weaker dollar.

In my opinion, the path to regaining prosperity starts with having a sound monetary policy. I do think the EU is beating us in that regard.

 

[Openmind]

I can agree that other nations are certainly catching up economically etc. No nation is going to remain a superpower simply because, you have to continually innovate, grow, etc.

But, turning towards Europe for a moment. Look at the differences in handling the economic crisis.

France, the UK, Japan (not Europe but similar), Greece, Spain, Iceland, Ireland etc etc are all making cuts. By sharp contrast, look at the United States. We are continuing down this Keynesian path of spend spend spend (and the cuts never do come).

Comparing growth rates between the US and the EU (as an average), it is hard to conclude that all that spending has really gotten us anything..except more debt and a weaker dollar.

In my opinion, the path to regaining prosperity starts with having a sound monetary policy. I do think the EU is beating us in that regard.

Yes, they are making cuts. But they can afford to make cuts in many "safety net programs" without bringing the countries to their knees. They have so many support/social programs, long vacations, child benefits, universal health care, subsidies for vacations, long term unemployment benefits, that some of those programs can be trimmed by 10, 20 or even 30 % and still be by far superior to the programs we offer.

The wealthy in those countries do not make 500 or 600 times what the regular worker makes, they make 200 to 300 times that amount. The employers do not have to "provide" health care, since there is universal health care that is totally transferrable to one job or another (maybe not with the same company, but no one needs to be afraid to change job because of the risk of losing health care. Unemployment payments are currently a LOT longer in Europe as they are in the U.S., so trimming it by a few weeks is not a drama (at least not for masses of people).

The fact is that, trimming the safety net in Europe is like going on a diet. If you have a diet of 5000 calories per day, you can trim it to 2500 with no problem. However, if your diet is of 3000 calories per day, you really can't trim much.

What many people seem to fail to recognize is that, Europe has been able to continue competing with the US in spite (and maybe because) of all the social programs and safety nets they have established in the last 50 years. And now, when everyone needs to cut down, they have a place where they can cut down without destroying their population and their economy, (although, I agree, they are shrieking like cattle going to the slaughter!)

 

[steveox]

Thatds one the Obama did fright,,, Pulling trolops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now Gas prices are falling.

 

[ProudLefty]

Thatds one the Obama did fright,,, Pulling trolops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now Gas prices are falling.

Gas prices just went back up today. Bummer.