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Chinas way of conquering the world

Discussion in 'Asian Politics' started by Walter, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but with one point that you don't seem to make (which you may not agree with!): Trump and the GOP THINK they can "control the one world government with Russia and China". . .BUT, Trump is simply being played like a fiddle (because of his arrogance and his narcissism that needs constant feeding of praises) by both China. . .and especially Russia.

    As I am currently living in Europe, it is clear that the rest of the world considers Trump as a fool who is being USED by Putin. . .and even by the GOP, and is, because of his enormous (and easily fed by ridiculous but constant praises to) his personal ego being outsmarted by China AND Russia.

    NO ONE trusts Trump as a world leader. . .he is (and, unfortunately, the US is beginning to be) consider increasingly as an oddity, an irrelevant fool.
     
  2. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    I can buy him being used by Putin and by the Chinese, but by the GOP? It looks to me as if he and his minions have taken over the GOP and molded it into their image.

    As a world leader, he's more like the court jester.
     
  3. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Not sure! I don't think Trump has the depth to come up with the monstrous tax bill, and I believe that, one part of the GOP at least, is USING Trump as the "boogy man," so that they don't take the full responsibility for the horrible bills that Trump is passing (those that most destroy the American spirit, like the invasion and destruction of at least a portion of American heritage, such as the selling out to big corporation of pristine areas of National Park and Alaska; the destruction of education to achieve (in the semi-long term) the equivalent to the enslavement of the American work force, etc. . .) which suits their long term plans of creating a society with only two major classes: The infinitely small, but very wealthy, elite class, and the "working bees" who, will lack the education and the ability to revolt against the wealthy class (because, as Maslow explained, if one has to fight to fulfil the most basic needs, such as food, lodging, healthcare, one doesn't have the energy and possibility to reach to fulfil higher needs!).

    I just do not believe Trump is smart enough. He is driven by greed and by his narcissism needs for adulation. The GOP and its masters (i.e., the Koch brothers. . .etc.) are those in control. They don't mind the US being reduced to a third world country. . .as long as their power and wealth continues to grow, and their misguided "Christian morality" (which has NOTHING to do with Christianity!) continues to help them control the masses.

    The GOP KNOWS Trump will not last. . .but the policies that they are imposing on the US populations under Trump's name will!
     
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  4. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Good points, but will the GOP survive the Trump makeover? I suppose it depends on how astute the voters...oh, wait. They're the same voters who elected Trump in the first place.

    Your description of an infinitely small but very wealth elite class and the "worker bees" reminds me of something I once read, only the elites were the party and the workers were the proletariat, or Proles in the book. Hmmm... Is Big Brother already watching, and gaining control?
     
  5. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    They sure are trying!
     
  6. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    As long as we have the nuclear arsenal we will be a world power. Unfortunately Trump will probably use it for his own purposes, and that is what will end us as a international power, and make us an international pariah.

    What most ignore is that we, as a country, paid for China's building of the military bases in the So. China Sea; we paid for the hackers training that now threaten our security; we paid for the military build up, and the space programs, of China. We created China, and now Trump wants to do the same for Russia. Question is do we allow him to do so?
     
  7. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    On one hand you guys argue Trump is an incompetent stooge and suddenly turn around to make the make the argument that he's a mastermind orchestrating a "one world government" and the outright destruction of American heritage and ideals and the stealth creation of some grand new society that "enslaves" workers so rich people can get richer.

    Forgive me for having a good laugh at your expense.
     
  8. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    No contradiction at all. He only has to follow the orders of his masters as his followers follow his. The right people can put a dunce in office as Trump proves. Trump is a "master" at manipulation as you prove.
     
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  9. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Since when did the measure of how many high speed rail lines are being built become a relevant measure of anything? It is a demonstrable fact (claimed by the governments and operators themselves) that almost all of these high speed lines generate losses rather than profits.

    In some cases (Italy) they attempted partnerships with private dollars and basically got laughed out of the building. Taiwan spent billions a high speed rail system that is currently embroiled in lawsuits over lower than expected demand and massive losses. China's high speed rail network currently only has a total of six lines that can even turn an operating profit (not accounting for construction costs) - the rest are bleeding money. Not to mention, to get to this undesirable point, the China Railway Corporation currently has debt equal to 6% of China's GDP! (for perspective this would be equivalent to a company having over $1.1 trillion in debt) According to the Economist in 2017: "A state-run magazine said the line between Guangzhou and the province of Guizhou owes 3bn yuan per year in interest payments—three times more than it makes from ticket sales."

    Is this really the measure of success we aspire to? Train lines that don't make money and hemorrhage tax dollars? Is the new measure of quality infrastructure how many money losing trains can be built and how quickly?

    If we are just going to pick random things and pretend that is the measure of infrastructure quality - how about we pick high speed internet access? I don't need a high speed train in my life, but I sure do need high speed internet access - so how does the United States compare to Europe?

    Despite the headlines, if you delve into the FCC data and various other published reports it is clear that Europe is lagging behind in broadband access. From the linked report: "A far greater percentage of U.S. households had access to Next Generation Networks (NGA) (25 Mbps) than in Europe. This was true whether one considered coverage for the entire nation (82% vs. 54%) or restricted the analysis to rural areas (48% vs. 12%)."

    This is another discussion from Roslyn Layton is a Ph.D. Fellow in Internet economics at the Center for Communication, Media and Information Studies at Aalborg University in Copenhagen, Denmark:
    "For starters, consider the state of competition. Americans have greater choice of broadband technologies and speeds than nearly anywhere in the world, including in the EU. Networks capable of providing 100 Mbps speeds reach 85 percent of U.S. homes, whereas just over half of European homes can access speeds of 30 Mbps or greater. Seventy-four percent of Europeans rely on DSL technology – largely because Europe lacks competition among different broadband technologies – whereas only 34 percent of Americans do. Today, the U.S. has roughly twice the percentage of homes with access to advanced fiber-optic networks as does the EU.

    The U.S. also leads on wireless broadband. Only 26 percent of Europeans live in areas where they can get the faster wireless 4G LTE networks; 95 percent of Americans are not only covered but most can choose from multiple 4G LTE providers."


    If we are just randomly picking "infrastructure" to compare, I will take my high speed internet and you can keep your high speed trains!


    Footnotes:
    Here is the 2016 FCC Broadband Report
    Here is the 2016 European Commission Broadband Report
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  10. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Obama had his "birthers" and I guess Trump has you guys...
     
  11. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    If you are interested in the far more nuanced background of how the delay, signed by President Obama, came about....
     
  12. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Dear old Rob!!!! You obviously haven't been on the European continent for years! And you are obviously following the Trump's "philosophy of greed," where anything that moves forward must be ECONOMICALLY profitable, whether or not it is SOCIALLY profitable or harmful!

    The high speed trains in Europe are a God send! Imagine, taking a Thalys at the train station ½ mile from my home in Liege, Belgium, and debarking in Paris North Station 2 hours and 15 minutes later (it takes 4 hours by car!) Or getting on an Eurostar in Belgium and 2 hours and 15 minutes later debarking at the center of London!

    Well, this is daily (multi-daily) occurence for thousands of people.

    Are those fast train making billionaires? No. . .so what? The purpose of it is NOT MERELY economics, it is progress and easy, fast and safe travel throughout the continent for those thousands of people. It is less crowded highways, and fewer car accident, it is less pollution.

    So childish! You really are a Trump follower. . .aren't you! You actually disappoint me by your obvious myopic view of what represents "progress" and what POWER this kind of progress brings to a nation!

    By the way. . .in Europe, we don't have to choose between internet OR bullet trains. . .we can have both. . .at the same time! Yes, Internet connection (free) is offered on those bullet trains for the passengers!

    But, if you really believe that the internet is the answer to all infrastructure progress. . .why do we still spend so much tax payers dollars on airports? DUH!
     
  13. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Was over twice in 2017...

    I am happy to ride the trains while I am there and I agree they are convenient. None of that changes the fact that they are not profitable. If you wonder why the United States has not been pursuing high speed rail as some other countries have - look at the economic feasibility of them - that is a perfectly legitimate reason.

    They are actually losing billions...

    That's always the trade off. How many trillions (what it would take in the US to build such a system) is worth that?

    You can search my old posts on this very board and find my opinion of Trump - none of which are very favorable. I did not even vote for him (not that I voted for Clinton either). That doesn't mean there are not things he will do that I agree with etc.

    Yes - you can have access to slower internet on average - that is statistically factual. Glad it is free on the train though - maybe that's why they are losing so much money!! haha ;)

    To be serious however, I do not believe any one thing is the be all end all of infrastructure. I simply find it comical that we speak of "infrastructure" and suddenly the debate is "we need more high speed trains..." Measuring "infrastructure" progress by how many high speed trains get built is meaningless - cherry picking one particular thing (like I did with the internet) is not a meaningful measure of anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  14. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    How many billions does the US give to subsidise airlines? And. . .it would cost a LOT LESS per 100 miles to build a few bullet train lines in the huge USA , with so much empty space to cross, than it does to build those lines through the middle of the cities every 30 or 50 miles, as it is necessary in Europe!

    Imagine a bullet train from Atlanta to Los Angeles. One from NY to Seattle. It wouldn't cost that much more than that stupid wall that the fool in the White House wants to build. . .a wall that is totally against the spirit of America (why do you think Reagan worked so hard to "bring down that wall" in Germany?).

    By the way, they are not losing BILLIONS! The ONLY article that states that kind of figure is. . .an AMTRAK study. . .which obviously is not interested in spending money to built a proper rail road of the future in the US.

    In fact, it seems that the COST OF BUILDING the high speed train lines in France (for exemple) is recuperated in 12 years! And building in Europe is more expensive BECAUSE of the terrain (mostly build up, older cities, full of historical buildings) compared to the US (HUGE empty expenses, with only a few ranchers to disturb!)

    All change - France's TGV - The Economist
    https://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2014/08/france-s-tgv
    Aug 13, 2014 - THEY are admired the world over for their sleekness, speed and sheer French chic. But the 480 high-speed trains (Trains à Grande Vitesse, or TGV) that radiate around France from Paris are struggling to remain in the black. Most of the lines are running at a loss and even the profitable ones are not earning ...

    That is "struggling to remain in the black" or running at a loss. . . NOT losing billions!
    You are just too concern about GREED, and not enough about PEOPLE and progress!

    America is falling far behind in many areas. Transportation is only one of them!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  15. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Difference is "birthers" like Trump were liars. Nothing I have posted is a lie.

    Do you know the difference?
     
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