Changing America to make the world happy is Not an option!

[Pandora]

I don't think you really mean that do you

Let me re-word this, because no I did not mean it exactly how it came out.

I think people from other countries should worry about the problems in their own countries before they stick their nose in our business. If its something we are doing that directly affects them, then that could be different. If we are smuggling cocaine into their country and getting their children addicted to drugs, they would have a right to protest our corrupt police departments and what ever else they have to do to keep their children safe, or if we were human trafficking their children, they sure would have a right to complain and loudly.

BUT

Before people from other countries attack us on moral issues, they need to go attack the countries that have "real" moral issues. Attack human trafficking, attack slave labor, cutting kidneys from prisoners, all those things are happening but they are not happening here.

If a person agrees or disagrees with the war in Iraq I would hope they have enough brain cells to see the difference in what is happening in Iraq and what is happening and has been happening in Tibet for years. If a person really hates "invaders” then they should get their freaking butts over to China and protest what they have been doing in Tibet for more years than I can remember.

Constructive criticism is good. You are such a nice person and I think a very fair person. I would not take anything you said as insulting or hypocritical. You are also easily the most respectful person on this forum. So I didn’t mean it like it came out. I know you are not American but I value your opinion on America, I just don’t value the opinion of people who are only filled with hate and blame and can not see any point of view except America is the problem.

 

[Pandora]

The United States is a great country to live in. We have freedom (so far) to pursue whatever dreams we may have. We have the Bill of Rights. We have freedom of religion, of speech, and a whole lot more. We are (still, even though it is slipping away) an economic powerhouse.

But we have a government that is broke, and is broken. We need some serious reforms if the US is to continue to be a great country.

And, as has already been pointed out, it is not entirely the fault of the current POTUS that the government is in such a mess. Much of it is, of course, but many of the problems we face go back much further than the current administration.

The real question is whether we, the people, are willing and able to once again take over the government we're supposed to be running, or whether we will continue to allow the two major parties to pursue their statist agendas, while the one pretends to be the party of fiscal responsibility and conservatism, and the other pretends to be the party of the common man.

I don't think the situation has bottomed out just yet.

I totally agree with you.

 

[top gun]

I think you system of government could work quite well top gun, if the abuses of power created by Bush were outlawed right from the start of the next presidency. Ideally a dem congress with a repub president who is kept under control or vice versa. The only problem I see is that one party or the other is going to try to abuse it's power. Otherwise I can see advantages over our Canadian parliamentary system.

I do have some problems with your judicial being too political as opposed to just being correct but then correctness is in the eye of the beholder.

Our system is like a river... it ebbs & flows. The great thing about it is no matter how screwed up it gets the political damage can be reversed with just and election or two if people really decide things have went to far one way or the other. It's not like we have to have a military coup to change things.

On the system in general I know exactly what you are saying about checks & balances between the 3 branches of government but we actually often get more accomplished when we have the same Party in control of Congress & as the sitting President. However this too can go on too long and then you have various abuses the seem to crop up.

Our Supreme Court being appointed for life by the President does have some political flavor but not really because of Republican or Democratic politics. It really revolves around those who believe that our Constitution is flawless for all times and those who believe there is "some" evolving that can be interpreted in.

I believe in some evolving because our Constitution was certainly not a perfect document nor was it perfectly set up for modern times... for instance slavery was allowed. When you have allowances for something that egregious in the original document then the idea that some evolving may need to take place as modern time moves seems logical to me.

The bottom line here is at this point in time the pendulum is moving toward change and I think that's a very good thing.

 

[Dr.Who]

It is certainly true that many dislike the US. And sure even some Americans are in that boat. One would expect though that someone who wants to be the leader of this country would at least like it a litte.

So here is your chance, Obama lovers, what is the best thing he has said about the US?

 

[Pandora]

It is certainly true that many dislike the US. And sure even some Americans are in that boat. One would expect though that someone who wants to be the leader of this country would at least like it a litte.

So here is your chance, Obama lovers, what is the best thing he has said about the US?

The best thing he ever said about America is

It can be good again (once he is elected)

and that he is the one the we have been waiting for.

Obama hates this country as much as the canadian and his shadow
and I would trust him to run our country as much as I would the canadian and his shadow.

 

[top gun]

I am not saying I dont care about the world or what is best for the world. I am saying that I am sick and I am done arguing with strange people from other imperfect countries who can do nothing but blame America for every pimple on their butts without using even one single brain cell that God gave them to see any other point but the hateful point they have decided to have.

They wont stop complaining but I can stop listening

Now when a normal person wants to talk about differnt world issues and if they feel that America has added to the problem I am happy to listen to a point of view. But I am talking about normal people sane people, not like the.... well I had better not say what they are or I will get reported

I really dont have time to just throw away on people who are not even from our Country who just want stick us on their moral scale but turn a blind eye at all the other countries that have done in the last year worse things than our contry has done in its history.

I think you will have to admit though that as uncomfortable as it makes you... when you hear first hand from people from other countries what they truly think about our government it is insightful.

We may or may not agree with them but that does not change their perception of us. So from my point of view it doesn't bother me and I don't mind taking the time to try and explain in a kind way things from our point of view.

I agree America has done many, many great things in this world. But our mistakes are still our mistakes. But I think we do ourselves an injustice if we just make believe the United States is just a completely non-confrontational never stirs anything up completely neutral Switzerland type of country because we certainly are not.

 

[top gun]

It is certainly true that many dislike the US. And sure even some Americans are in that boat. One would expect though that someone who wants to be the leader of this country would at least like it a litte.

So here is your chance, Obama lovers, what is the best thing he has said about the US?

Senator Obama is just a man. Just a Husband and a Father. But he's also just someone who loves America. Someone that hasn't always had a silver spoon in his mouth. Someone who from the start has thought of others especially those in not the best circumstances and he's stepped up to help.

And Senator Obama is inspirational at a time when our credibility around the world and our economy here at home need some inspiration... not just more of the same.

Listen an you'll hear the man's passion for his country...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3mOyuJvX8U

 

[Pandora]

I think you will have to admit though that as uncomfortable as it makes you... when you hear first hand from people from other countries what they truly think about our government it is insightful.

We may or may not agree with them but that does not change their perception of us. So from my point of view it doesn't bother me and I don't mind taking the time to try and explain in a kind way things from our point of view.

I agree America has done many, many great things in this world. But our mistakes are still our mistakes. But I think we do ourselves an injustice if we just make believe the United States is just a completely non-confrontational never stirs anything up completely neutral Switzerland type of country because we certainly are not.

IF the only critical things they said was about our government I would not be so offended, but it is not, it is about our people too, our way of life.

You dont notice that? Well I guess you wouldn't because its more directed to anyone who dare be conservative. Libs are ok, because they want a world like Europe, but if you dare not want to be like Europe then you are the target

 

[mike9537]

Well I don't think he can have a much worser attempt than bush has to be honest... but I'm a big believe that not all power and decision making is exerted from the top of the hill.

I believe a good leader must be able to understand the advise of his team...and not be influenced by them. To expect a country with its hands delved into so many issues to be adaquately run by one is a daft idea. It is also daft to make asumptions as to whether someone will be good at a truly unique job role such as president.

I do also think America would benifit greatly by concentrating on maintaining its own economy right now. As the developed world (expcept the oil nations) falls into more debt to the oil nations it will be more difficult to climb out of it.

 

[Shadow]

They should clean the crap out of their own front yard before they come snooping in our back yard.

Gladly, when the US stops meddling in places it does not belong, and puts its nose in just about everyone elses business, invades nations militarily .... nations that posed NO threat to the US.

As long as the US is going to make like it is a world leader , involve its tentacles everywhere...........the rest of the world is fully entitled to criticise it as much as it wants. As long as the US wants to dominate the world....it had better be prepared to take the flack that comes with it.

You don't see many other nations meddling in other countries as the US does........ and they mostly just want to mind their own and live. It is the US that has aspirations for world domination......and is going about it in a very destructive way now.

The US is just going to have to take its lumps now and behave like a "man". while doing so. Who knows, perhaps it might even develop some maturity and character.......and become less of a "me' "mine" and will take what I want, when I want nation.

but don't anyone hold your breath waiting for this. Until the US ruins itself completely...... and has to rise again.....it will not understand how much a force for destruction it has become............while believing that it is so benevolent. It is benevolent only when there is something in it for the US.....

Its addiction to power is beyond any kind of intervention help.

 

[Libsmasher]

Gladly, when the US stops meddling in places it does not belong, and puts its nose in just about everyone elses business, invades nations militarily .... nations that posed NO threat to the US.

Our business is where we SAY our business is. ooooooooo - poor wittle islamofascist-symp ..... did we overthrow a dictator without your permission?

As long as the US is going to make like it is a world leader , involve its tentacles everywhere...........the rest of the world is fully entitled to criticise it as much as it wants. As long as the US wants to dominate the world....it had better be prepared to take the flack that comes with it.

Crticize all you want with your RIDICULOUS criticism - just keep the hell out of our way.

You don't see many other nations meddling in other countries as the US does........ and they mostly just want to mind their own and live. It is the US that has aspirations for world domination......and is going about it in a very destructive way now.

You don't see euroweenies "meddling" in anybody else's "business", because they are pussies who have done virtually nothing to oppose tyranny in the world since the end of WWII, and every time they are about to get their pathetic asses overrun, they come whimpering for the US to "meddle in their business" to rescue them.

The US is just going to have to take its lumps now and behave like a "man".

Whaaaaaaattttt???? The US GIVES lumps. The whining about the US deposing Saddam Hussein is the most absurd load of BS to come out of the europussies for a long time, and that's saying something.

 

[top gun]

IF the only critical things they said was about our government I would not be so offended, but it is not, it is about our people too, our way of life.

You dont notice that? Well I guess you wouldn't because its more directed to anyone who dare be conservative. Libs are ok, because they want a world like Europe, but if you dare not want to be like Europe then you are the target

I try to look at every situation in its entirety. And not just in politics but in life itself.

One of the things I'm most proud of teaching my 2 beautiful daughters (overtly proud Father) is the concept of putting the shoe on the other foot if you don't really know what's right or in which direction to go on a difficult subject.

The... "How would I feel if someone was doing this to me?" question.

So of course I look out for my country first. But I can also see what others see. I in the end want fairness.

I don't really see fairness as any reason for a Liberal/Conservative divide.

 

[Pandora]

Gladly, when the US stops meddling in places it does not belong, and puts its nose in just about everyone elses business, invades nations militarily .... nations that posed NO threat to the US.

As long as the US is going to make like it is a world leader , involve its tentacles everywhere...........the rest of the world is fully entitled to criticise it as much as it wants. As long as the US wants to dominate the world....it had better be prepared to take the flack that comes with it.

You don't see many other nations meddling in other countries as the US does........ and they mostly just want to mind their own and live. It is the US that has aspirations for world domination......and is going about it in a very destructive way now.

The US is just going to have to take its lumps now and behave like a "man". while doing so. Who knows, perhaps it might even develop some maturity and character.......and become less of a "me' "mine" and will take what I want, when I want nation.

but don't anyone hold your breath waiting for this. Until the US ruins itself completely...... and has to rise again.....it will not understand how much a force for destruction it has become............while believing that it is so benevolent. It is benevolent only when there is something in it for the US.....

Its addiction to power is beyond any kind of intervention help.

The point of this thread is that I am not going to waste time talking to people who are not even Americans who clearly hate our country and just bashes it.

Actually shadow you are the reason I made this thread. You had made a thread bashing America, saying pretty cruddy things about our Country, most were lies. Other things were partial truths but so warped and twisted that you wouldn’t recognize.

You were being pretty cruddy to any American who dared defend themselves. Bating people, Then you reported Andy for saying something to you about a 16th as bad as what you said to him, me or any other American who dared to defend their country.

It was that event that made me mad enough to make this thread. I am not going to go back and fourth with you about how bad you think America is. I will do it with Popeye or Top gun, they are Americans and I don’t mind talking to them about what we are doing wrong, right or what we could do better.

But I wont let you bait me like you did Andy and you have nothing to say about our country that I am interested in, and sorry but your facts on our country are so dang off that I wonder who educated you. You seem to have one opinion about my country. America sucks, America is wrong, America is to blame. America sucks.

That is fine…… go find some fellow America bashers and have at it, but I wont waste my time or let you bait me and report me like you did to Andy and who knows how many others “under your current nick”

 

[Pandora]

I try to look at every situation in its entirety. And not just in politics but in life itself.

One of the things I'm most proud of teaching my 2 beautiful daughters (overtly proud Father) is the concept of putting the shoe on the other foot if you don't really know what's right or in which direction to go on a difficult subject.

The... "How would I feel if someone was doing this to me?" question.

So of course I look out for my country first. But I can also see what others see. I in the end want fairness.

I don't really see fairness as any reason for a Liberal/Conservative divide.

You do seem like a good dad

You do not seem overly blame America first but even if you were, you are an American. I have no problem talking to you about it.

but im just done trying to reason with someone who has no facts, they heard from a friend or on their leftwing news station that america is the blame and they wont even consider proof or evidence that we are not the mosters from hell they have been indoctornated to believe we were.

but mostly top, i am done talking with people who are not american, but just america bash, say crude rude things about our country and even to us posters then if we dare say anything no matter how small in return, they report you.. i am not wasting time with that bating stuff anymore.

but i actually like talking to you even when we disagree. we have a comon interest in our country that we live in

ack its 5 am im late for work, no time for spell check

 

[Libsmasher]

You do seem like a good dad

Are you joking??? If this guy has kids, I feel REALLY sorry for them.