Are you one of the 53% ?

[Openmind]

Because it was offered to him. It is as simple as that. {/quote]

you stated that he worked hard for it so clearly it has nothing to do with happenstance that it was offered. he sought it (and good for him to have done so) and won it



again per your recounting, it had nothing to do with fortune. Mr Open sprang from humble means. No silver spooner as so many OWS kids are. Why would you change attitudes ? I don't see any point in this comment.



cant speak to Mr Open but you demonstrate your hypocrisy routinely.

We may have a different definition for "hypocrisy" also then.

I dare you to show me where I have demonstrated hypocrisy.

 

[BigRob]

Yes, obviously! Where else can you put your money if you're in investing?

Overseas...bonds...stocks that are not BAC etc, he could use his money as venture capital...let's not pretend that the only way to make a dollar is investing in banks on Wall Street.

But you can be wealthy, and make a very good profit, and still have a social conscience and admit what is wrong with the system.

I don't think there is much wrong with the system...anyone can succeed if they want to...what is wrong with that system?

I never said and never believed that all wealthy person is evil or blind or stupid. And I believe there are quite a few in the top 1%, or even in the top 1/10 of 1% who do understand that taking an extra 3 or 5 % of their "income" is not going to change their life style, that their kids will still go to the best school, that their yacht will still be manned, and that they will still leave a huge amount of wealth behind when their life ends.

No, their lifestyles are not going to change dramatically..but that is not the point. Am I too assume we ought to set tax rates for all based on what they can afford? If so, I wager there are quite a few who pay no federal income taxes that could start.

Why is that contradictory?

It is not..I just think it is wrong.

 

[dogtowner]

We may have a different definition for "hypocrisy" also then.

I dare you to show me where I have demonstrated hypocrisy.

I do it all the time. And there is only one definition. The issue is you delude yourself.

 

[Openmind]

Overseas...bonds...stocks that are not BAC etc, he could use his money as venture capital...let's not pretend that the only way to make a dollar is investing in banks on Wall Street.



I don't think there is much wrong with the system...anyone can succeed if they want to...what is wrong with that system?



No, their lifestyles are not going to change dramatically..but that is not the point. Am I too assume we ought to set tax rates for all based on what they can afford? If so, I wager there are quite a few who pay no federal income taxes that could start.



It is not..I just think it is wrong.

I can respect that you think my opinion is wrong. As long as you respect my right to have this opinion.

By the way. . .oversea stocks are usually one and the same with Wall Street stocks. . .Bonds are also managed by Wall Street.

And I believe that Buffett has made investments in venture capital in the past, as do most peo;e with sizeable amount of wealth.

Nothing you said takes away from the fact that I believe Buffett (and quite a few other super wealthy people) has at least some honesty and demonstrate a social conscience that seems to be missing in too many super wealthy.

 

[Openmind]

I do it all the time. And there is only one definition. The issue is you delude yourself.

I understand that it is your opinion. I understand that you try by "spinning" my words over and over again to "build a case" in an attempt to make me look either as a liar, or stupid, or a combination of both.

However, I do believe that the most intelligent and fair people in this forum do realize what is happening. So. . .I'm not worried.

I actually kind of feel sorry for you!

 

[BigRob]

You may be absolutely right about that, although it seems pretty close if this represent NET worth:

Those are much lower figures than I would have assumed.

Because it was offered to him. It is as simple as that.

Why was it offered to him?

And, we did the best we could to assure that we didn't change our attitude toward people who were less fortunate than we were, and that, whenever possible, we shared our good fortune. And if we had been told that it wasw necessary to raise the level of tax we paid to help the Country, we would not have protested.

What do you mean "whenever possible"...all the 1%ers supposedly have hoards of cash they just refuse to ever use to help anyone right?

As for helping the country, if you were told that you needed to pay more taxes now, so we could spend more now, and never make cuts, and then have to come back and ask for more later...would you view that as helping your country?

In fact, I bet all the super wealthy see NOTHING wrong when their HOA or the country club raises their due. . . sometime by as much as 50% in one year. . . I know. . .it is happening in the golf community where I live.

The IRS has cracked down a bit, but you can still get clever with such things on your taxes.

It is as simple as that. My husband and I are not heroes, we are not hypocrites, it is all about attitude, and it is easy to note just by looking around us who among the wealthy has a people oriented attitude, or a money oriented attitude. . .and you might be surprise that it is not necessarely the WEALTHIEST among those people who are the most blind to people less fortunate than they are.

I am not surprised to find that at all. I don't think money really has much to do with your personality..be it a giving one or not so much.

 

[BigRob]

I can respect that you think my opinion is wrong. As long as you respect my right to have this opinion.

By the way. . .oversea stocks are usually one and the same with Wall Street stocks. . .Bonds are also managed by Wall Street.

And I believe that Buffett has made investments in venture capital in the past, as do most peo;e with sizeable amount of wealth.

Nothing you said takes away from the fact that I believe Buffett (and quite a few other super wealthy people) has at least some honesty and demonstrate a social conscience that seems to be missing in too many super wealthy.

I think you underestimate people. For example there was a Wall Street big shot (at Lehman I think) that used to literally fill trucks with food and go give it to poor in NYC. Of course he was demonized simply for being associated with Lehman, but I don't think that is that odd.

In terms of actual dollars, the "rich" give tons to charity etc.

 

[Openmind]

Those are much lower figures than I would have assumed.

To be fair, these figure date from 2001, but that was about the time when my husband and I "enjoyed" our 1% status. . .

Why was it offered to him?

Because he was a hard worker and a very intelligent and charismatic leader. And because he was lucky. . .having never gone to College, but having learned his skills through the Navy, he ended up as a director or international field engineering in a large computer corporation

What do you mean "whenever possible"...all the 1%ers supposedly have hoards of cash they just refuse to ever use to help anyone right?

This is very much unlike you, Bob. First, I was very clear about my status as a "temporary, low flying 1%er. Second, I have NEVER said that all wealthy people hoard their cash, although those most obsessed with wealth do so, in my opinion. Please do not start following in the foot step of your friends. You are a moderator, and I believe you were selected to be a moderator because of your sense of fairness and your honesty.

As for helping the country, if you were told that you needed to pay more taxes now, so we could spend more now, and never make cuts, and then have to come back and ask for more later...would you view that as helping your country?

Our country is in trouble, deep trouble. Sacrifices are being asked from EVERYONE, and shouldn't be limited to cutting assistance to those who need it the most, in order to keep the most privileged from paying a little more taxes. The tax rates of the top bracket has NEVER been this low in over 100 years, and yet a whole group of people act as if asking, in this time of great need for both our country and for so many individuals in this country, to contribute a little more than what they have in the last 10 years. . .

I do not think that this is "class warfare" or "taking 100% of the wealthy from their rightful owner." It is a rational step that those who have benefitted the most from the good times, and even benefitted the most from these terrible times should contribute at least as much to this (hopefully) temporary situation.

And I am encouraged by the fact that 63% of the people in this country see it that way also.

I am not surprised to find that at all. I don't think money really has much to do with your personality..be it a giving one or not so much

.

I agree.

 

[GenSeneca]

Sacrifices are being asked from EVERYONE*

*Only the wealthy.

The tax rates of the top bracket has NEVER been this low in over 100 years

Current top marginal rate is 35%...

1988-1992 Top marginal rate was 28%
1992-1994 Top marginal rate was 31%

Let me guess... That's my opinion?

 

[dogtowner]

I understand that it is your opinion. I understand that you try by "spinning" my words over and over again to "build a case" in an attempt to make me look either as a liar, or stupid, or a combination of both.

However, I do believe that the most intelligent and fair people in this forum do realize what is happening. So. . .I'm not worried.

I actually kind of feel sorry for you!

I repeat your words and that is spin ?

I don't think you are a liar (I can neither prove or disprove) and I don't think you are stupid. I do think that you speak/type off the cuff and without giving it much thought, you chat. Nothing wrong with that. But when some silliness or other is pointed out you fail to accept it but rather try talking your way out of it.

I don't have any issue with you living your life on feelings, people do that a lot as its just who they are. But when you try to legitimize what you feel with facts that just don't work you set yourself up for what you get in return.

Just be yourself. Its all you can be, its what you chose to be and its nothing to be ashamed of. We're all different for a reason, what a borin world it would be if all flowers were roses.

 

[Openmind]

The proposed cuts in spending are NOT on the wealthy!

Current top marginal rate is 35%...

1988-1992 Top marginal rate was 28%
1992-1994 Top marginal rate was 31%

Let me guess... That's my opinion?

You are correct. However you forget to mention that, when the top marginal rate was as low as 28% (for only 4 years), the TOP TAX BRACKET STARTED AT BELOW $40,000, therefore, that 28% tax rate was being paid on income as low as $28,500 (in 1988) up to $35,000 (in 1992) which had for consequence to increase the total tax bill paid by EVERYONE higher than it is today.

History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

 

[Dr.Who]

And your point is?

You still talk about "MONEY," I talk about "SURVIVAL" for which some money is necessary.

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

I do not care about the accumulation of money for the pleasure of hoarding, for greed and power.
I care about making everyone's life a little more manageable through assuring that in this wealthy country, a whole section of the population doesn't fall to to the level of a third world country, while a minute section of the population hoards money obtained, no ONLY through their own labor, but through the middle class and the poor's labor.

In the last two post you have only talked about money and have not talked about survival at all.

And since not a single person in this country fears for their survival due to lack of access to food and most of the poor only need to worry about making life "a little more managable" as you put it that hardly is a case of survival.

I can only conclude that for you it really is about money.

And how do the rich hoard money not through their own labor but through the labor of others? I did not think we had slaves anymore in this country. But you won't answer that question will you?

 

[Openmind]

In the last two post you have only talked about money and have not talked about survival at all.

And since not a single person in this country fears for their survival due to lack of access to food and most of the poor only need to worry about making life "a little more managable" as you put it that hardly is a case of survival.

I can only conclude that for you it really is about money.

And how do the rich hoard money not through their own labor but through the labor of others? I did not think we had slaves anymore in this country. But you won't answer that question will you?

Don't you know by now that I never fear answering a question when I have the time?

I guess you decided to join the crowd and belittle me. . .oh well! As you wish!

I disagree that the poor are not functioning at the level of "survival!" They MAY have enough food to survive, they may even have a home. . .although they are in perpetual fear to lose it, but they have ABSOLUTELY no security, living from one day to the next.

And this is what I am talking about, although you chose to focus on the "money" part of my posts! It is NOT about the money. . .it is about having enough resources that one doesn't have to go to sleep at night, wondering which bill will come tomorrow, whether the electricity will be cut, whether the car will have enough gas to get to that minimum wage job, and whether the sick kid in the other room will get better on his own, with over the counter medication, or whether you're going to have to take him to the emergency room to get treated when his illness gets worse.

No rich person got that way without the work of many people around them, and without the "lift" given to them by that government that you all hate so much. . .public schools, subsidized universities, laws that benefit businesses and keep him safe, roads and infrastructure that allowed him to ship his product to the next State. . .

And, yes those minimum wage workers he was able to hire to manufacture his product, the public schools and university that educated his engineers and his accountants so that they could support him on the road to success.

As enamoured one may be with "individualism," NO MAN IS AN ISLAND.

And about hoarding. . .if it was just the very wealthy trying to pile up the billions, it would be one issue, but it is also their CORPORATIONS (link from a right wing source!).

"Corporate America's cash pile has hit its highest level in half a century.

Rather than pouring their money into building plants or hiring workers, nonfinancial companies in the U.S. were sitting on $1.93 trillion in cash and other liquid assets at the end of September, up from $1.8 trillion at the end of June, the Federal Reserve said Thursday. Cash accounted for 7.4% of the companies' total assets—the largest share since 1959."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...161973480.html

 

[Dr.Who]

I never said and never believed that all wealthy person is evil

Doesn't that destroy your argument that they have gotten rich by taking the labor of others?

Take the example of the rich person who is not evil and has not gotten rich by taking from others, should be not be considered innocent?

just to be clear about all of this. But the question is do you have enough integrity to answer and go on record?

 

[Dr.Who]

I am not sure having $1,000,000 gets you even close to the 1%ers.

In 2010 a single filer who earned a little over 380k was in the 1%.