Will they ratify the nuclear limitation treaty?

[BigRob]

Me too. So, why do you think it passed? Was it the merits of the actual treaty that were being weighed, or was it partisan gamesmanship that decided the matter?

I think it is somewhat telling that the Republicans in DC are not as unified as many would like to believe.

Additionally, I think it is a signal that some in DC are planning to simply maintain politics as usual, which is not really surprising...

Take TN for example, Senators Alexander and Corker got on board when modernization money was set aside for facilities in TN. I would argue we can modernize our nuclear arsenal far more effectively without such a treaty in place, but it seems that argument has lost the day.

I also question the treaty because:

1) We did not need it - it solidifies an adversarial relationship between US/Russia
2) It does nothing to address the tactical nuclear issue, of which we are lagging.
3) It will hurt our missile defense efforts. This won't really be through the language of the treaty, but the Russian's seem to expect we will continue to limit it, (despite Obama's words and the Senate's words to the contrary), however we will now have the added obstacle of Russia threatening to walk away if we actually take steps forward in the missile defense area.

 

[PLC1]

I think it is somewhat telling that the Republicans in DC are not as unified as many would like to believe.

Additionally, I think it is a signal that some in DC are planning to simply maintain politics as usual, which is not really surprising...

Take TN for example, Senators Alexander and Corker got on board when modernization money was set aside for facilities in TN. I would argue we can modernize our nuclear arsenal far more effectively without such a treaty in place, but it seems that argument has lost the day.

I also question the treaty because:

1) We did not need it - it solidifies an adversarial relationship between US/Russia
2) It does nothing to address the tactical nuclear issue, of which we are lagging.
3) It will hurt our missile defense efforts. This won't really be through the language of the treaty, but the Russian's seem to expect we will continue to limit it, (despite Obama's words and the Senate's words to the contrary), however we will now have the added obstacle of Russia threatening to walk away if we actually take steps forward in the missile defense area.

You are opposing the treaty based on its merits, or lack thereof. I'm not so sure the same could be said about either the supporters or the opposition
in Washington.

You nailed it here:

Additionally, I think it is a signal that some in DC are planning to simply maintain politics as usual, which is not really surprising...

No, it's not surprising, and I'd substitute "most" for "some".

 

[dogtowner]

Me too. So, why do you think it passed? Was it the merits of the actual treaty that were being weighed, or was it partisan gamesmanship that decided the matter?

Opponents failed to inform WHY this teaty was bad. People think its just some reduction, verification and other nicity nice. Great failure to educate.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Opponents failed to inform WHY this treaty was bad. People think its just some reduction, verification and other nicety nice. Great failure to educate.

that or these people did educatate on why we needed it
Brigadier General John Adams (U.S. Army)

Madeline Albright, former Secretary of State

Dr. Graham Allison, former Special Advisor to the Secretary of Defense,

Mary Catherine Andrews, former Special Assistant to the President

Scott Bates, former Senior Policy Advisor to the U.S. House Homeland Security Committee,

Samuel Berger, former National Security Advisor,

Dr. Coit Blacker, former Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Dr. Barry Blechman, former Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency,

Mark Brzezinski, former Director for Russian/Eurasian affairs at the National Security Council,

Ambassador Richard Burt ,U.S. Chief Negotiator in the Strategic Arms Reduction Talks

Lieutenant General John G. Castellaw (U.S. Marine Corps, Ret.)

Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney (U.S. Marine Corps, Ret)

Joe Cirincione

Nelson Cunningham, former Special Advisor to the President for Western Hemisphere Affairs,

Dr. Sidney Drell, former Deputy Director of the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory,

Major General Paul Eaton (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Lieutenant General Robert Gard Jr. (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Dr. David Gormley

Vice Admiral Lee Gunn (U.S. Navy, Ret.)

Chuck Hagel, former Senator (R-NE)

Dr. Morton Halperin, former Special Assistant to the President

Major General Marcelite Harris (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Gary Hart, former Senator (D-CO)

Lieutenant General Arlen "Dirk" Jameson (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Brigadier General John H. Johns, PhD (U.S. Army)

Dr. David Kay, former IAEA/UNSCOM Chief Nuclear Weapons Inspector

Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Dr. Geoffrey Kemp, former Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Colonel Richard L. Klass (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Dr. Lawrence Korb, former Assistant Secretary of Defense,

Rear Admiral Rosanne M. LeVitre (U.S. Navy, Ret.)

General Merrill "Tony" McPeak (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Dr. Janne E. Nolan, Director of Nuclear Security for the American Security Project

Admiral William Owens (U.S. Navy, Ret.), former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

Lieutenant General Norman Seip (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Lieutenant General Harry E. Soyster (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Ambassador Steven Pifer, former Senior Director for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia of the NSC

George P. Schultz, former Secretary of State

Ambassador Wendy R. Sherman, former Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs,

Ambassador Nancy Soderberg, former Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Strobe Talbott, former Deputy Secretary of State,

Lieutenant General James M. Thompson (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Major General Jasper Welch (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)


But then again you have never posted anything of value to "educate" why it would not be needed...But then again, becuse Obama wants it, does not realy qualify as a good reason to most as to why to be against it...and realy thats about what your real reason is...Had Bush pushed this and Dems been against it, you would be all for it.

 

[PLC1]

Opponents failed to inform WHY this teaty was bad. People think its just some reduction, verification and other nicity nice. Great failure to educate.

Yes, or why it was good. The discussion seemed to center around which party was going to get the "victory", rather than the merits or lack thereof of the treaty itself. Maybe that's just my cynical outlook, but it does seem that the main consideration is what is best for the party, whichever party the politician belongs to.

 

[dogtowner]

Yes, or why it was good. The discussion seemed to center around which party was going to get the "victory", rather than the merits or lack thereof of the treaty itself. Maybe that's just my cynical outlook, but it does seem that the main consideration is what is best for the party, whichever party the politician belongs to.

Its true, no one made a case for why it was needed much less what it consisted of. Obama needed somewthign to make him lool like he was doign some foreign relations right and then Russia disses him for it. Fail yet again.

 

[BigRob]

that or these people did educatate on why we needed it
Brigadier General John Adams (U.S. Army)

Madeline Albright, former Secretary of State

Dr. Graham Allison, former Special Advisor to the Secretary of Defense,

Mary Catherine Andrews, former Special Assistant to the President

Scott Bates, former Senior Policy Advisor to the U.S. House Homeland Security Committee,

Samuel Berger, former National Security Advisor,

Dr. Coit Blacker, former Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Dr. Barry Blechman, former Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency,

Mark Brzezinski, former Director for Russian/Eurasian affairs at the National Security Council,

Ambassador Richard Burt ,U.S. Chief Negotiator in the Strategic Arms Reduction Talks

Lieutenant General John G. Castellaw (U.S. Marine Corps, Ret.)

Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney (U.S. Marine Corps, Ret)

Joe Cirincione

Nelson Cunningham, former Special Advisor to the President for Western Hemisphere Affairs,

Dr. Sidney Drell, former Deputy Director of the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory,

Major General Paul Eaton (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Lieutenant General Robert Gard Jr. (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Dr. David Gormley

Vice Admiral Lee Gunn (U.S. Navy, Ret.)

Chuck Hagel, former Senator (R-NE)

Dr. Morton Halperin, former Special Assistant to the President

Major General Marcelite Harris (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Gary Hart, former Senator (D-CO)

Lieutenant General Arlen "Dirk" Jameson (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Brigadier General John H. Johns, PhD (U.S. Army)

Dr. David Kay, former IAEA/UNSCOM Chief Nuclear Weapons Inspector

Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Dr. Geoffrey Kemp, former Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Colonel Richard L. Klass (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Dr. Lawrence Korb, former Assistant Secretary of Defense,

Rear Admiral Rosanne M. LeVitre (U.S. Navy, Ret.)

General Merrill "Tony" McPeak (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Dr. Janne E. Nolan, Director of Nuclear Security for the American Security Project

Admiral William Owens (U.S. Navy, Ret.), former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

Lieutenant General Norman Seip (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)

Lieutenant General Harry E. Soyster (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Ambassador Steven Pifer, former Senior Director for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia of the NSC

George P. Schultz, former Secretary of State

Ambassador Wendy R. Sherman, former Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs,

Ambassador Nancy Soderberg, former Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs,

Strobe Talbott, former Deputy Secretary of State,

Lieutenant General James M. Thompson (U.S. Army, Ret.)

Major General Jasper Welch (U.S. Air Force, Ret.)


But then again you have never posted anything of value to "educate" why it would not be needed...But then again, becuse Obama wants it, does not realy qualify as a good reason to most as to why to be against it...and realy thats about what your real reason is...Had Bush pushed this and Dems been against it, you would be all for it.

As always, many smart people on both sides of the issue...

I will point out however, take a look at how many of those people are retired, and no longer in government service, many of those people were in government during the height of the Cold War when a START treaty was needed...

I think many of these people are stuck in their ways so to speak about how they view Russia. That is fine, but a lot has changed since the fall of the Soviet Union, and I think we need to be careful not to simply continue American policy in regards to the Soviet Union without at least consideration of the fact that the Soviet Union has collapsed, Russia is not the Soviet Union, and (in my mind at least) we are blowing a real chance to eliminate this adversarial relationship we have with what is now Russia.

 

[dogtowner]

As always, many smart people on both sides of the issue...

I will point out however, take a look at how many of those people are retired, and no longer in government service, many of those people were in government during the height of the Cold War when a START treaty was needed...

I think many of these people are stuck in their ways so to speak about how they view Russia. That is fine, but a lot has changed since the fall of the Soviet Union, and I think we need to be careful not to simply continue American policy in regards to the Soviet Union without at least consideration of the fact that the Soviet Union has collapsed, Russia is not the Soviet Union, and (in my mind at least) we are blowing a real chance to eliminate this adversarial relationship we have with what is now Russia.

Perhaps as significant, have any of them read the pact ? As with Congress who rarely rad the legislation the vote on, I'll bet not.

 

[PLC1]

Perhaps as significant, have any of them read the pact ? As with Congress who rarely rad the legislation the vote on, I'll bet not.

They don't have to read it in order to play partisan games with it.

 

[dogtowner]

They don't have to read it in order to play partisan games with it.

True. Its a lot easier to pontificate if you have no idea of the content.