Why the Gay Agenda May Tip The Scales for the GOP this Fall

[Gipper]

Is compromise "the only way anything of substance ever gets done"? Yes or No

Did the Democrats write and pass their own bill? Yes or No

Game, Set, Match....

But, somehow libs never know when they have lost the debate...must be that delusional thing again....

 

[GenSeneca]

To suggest that helping our fellow Americans in NOT the purpose of government is simply hogwash.

The purpose of government is to secure our rights and secure liberty for posterity. As for the general welfare clause, the Constitution limits the "General Welfare" clause specifically to the enumerated powers.

Since you think government's job is to "help" people, what, if any, objection would you have to government providing every person with a job, a place to live, a min wage, healthcare and old age pension?

 

[PLC1]

I.E. Taxpayer funded single payer system that puts government in charge of all health care.

Any compromise on free market principles will lead to that eventuality.

Not necessarily. We have a mix of free market and government subsidies now. There is no need to go to either of the extremes of socialized medicine, or total free market solutions, neither of which will work or will ever happen. We will continue to have a mix of private and public money in health care.

 

[PLC1]

Senator X has any number of people with different, and competing, interests in his district... How the hell is he supposed to cater to ALL his constituents?

Or are you just concerned with him catering to a majority of his constituents?

How about doing what is best for his constituents, even if it conflicts with what is best for the party?

IMO, Compromise is the canker.

Politics is all about compromise.

Give me a specific example.

Are you serious? Washington is replete with examples. Well, OK:

Ask this guy what happens when you speak out against your party

In some circumstances you have to vote against your constituents. Take California for example, taxpayers want more goodies paid for by taxpayers but they don't want to pay for it with higher taxes. Nearly the whole country would vote themselves perks from the public treasury but vote against higher taxes to pay for the perks.

You have a point there. Everyone likes the goodies that government dishes out, but no one wants to pay for them. That is why tax cuts are so popular, but cutting back spending is not. There seems to be a high percentage of voters who still believe in voodoo economics, since it promises something for nothing, along with many willing to let the other guy pay for government. Both positions result in deficits.

Sure, the representatives have to make choices, some of which their constituency won't like. They still should represent the interests of their constituency, not the best interests of their party.

 

[BigRob]

Compromise is the only way anything of substance ever gets done. It is certainly the only way peace gets ever gets made. Case in point. The Republicans are still whining about the Healthcare bill, but the fact is that they did nothing to help make it better because they refused to accept that it was going to happen, that the nationa needed it and wanted it (and want it even more, if the current polls are to be believed). The refused to compromise on any of it, and so the Democrats wrote and passed their own bill. So if the Republicans hate the bill, they only have themselves to blame.

Just to be clear... wanting "healthcare reform" does not equate to wanting the bill that was passed.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Just to be clear... wanting "healthcare reform" does not equate to wanting the bill that was passed.

correct, actually a poll out a few days ago, don't have it in front of me, said that more people who did not approve of the bill...did so becuse it did not go far enough...then said it went to far....

 

[orogenicman]

Just to be clear... wanting "healthcare reform" does not equate to wanting the bill that was passed.

And yet the Republicans offered nothing that would make the bill better for the American people. What did you guys offer, Big Rob?

 

[orogenicman]

correct, actually a poll out a few days ago, don't have it in front of me, said that more people who did not approve of the bill...did so becuse it did not go far enough...then said it went to far....

The poll that came out days ago said that Americans not only wanted it, but wanted more than was offered. It's not that they didn't like the bill. It was that the bill didn't go far enough. Since the Republicans fought for everything that was put into the bill, what more could have been done at the time? This is a case of Republicans fighting against the bill and then claiming polls support their utter and complete opposition because people actually wanted MORE, when the Republicans didn't want any of it. They wanted the status quo, despite the fact that we are 37th in the world in healthcare!

 

[PLC1]

It's not a matter of how far the health care bill went, but whether or not it addressed the main challenge, which is the soaring cost.

Perhaps time will prove me wrong, but my opinion is that it did not. I can't see anything in the bill that will bring down costs.

What is likely to happen next is that double digit increases in premiums will continue, and be attributed to "Obamacare", which is illogical since we have had double digit increases in health care regularly for the past couple of decades at least, but logic plays little part in politics anyway.

Sooner or later, the legislature is going to have to revisit health care. Maybe, after the leaping, hooting, chest pounding, and finger pointing are over, they will be able to pass something that will reign in costs.

But, I seriously doubt it.

 

[Gipper]

It's not a matter of how far the health care bill went, but whether or not it addressed the main challenge, which is the soaring cost.

Perhaps time will prove me wrong, but my opinion is that it did not. I can't see anything in the bill that will bring down costs.

What is likely to happen next is that double digit increases in premiums will continue, and be attributed to "Obamacare", which is illogical since we have had double digit increases in health care regularly for the past couple of decades at least, but logic plays little part in politics anyway.

Sooner or later, the legislature is going to have to revisit health care. Maybe, after the leaping, hooting, chest pounding, and finger pointing are over, they will be able to pass something that will reign in costs.

But, I seriously doubt it.

Actually Obummercare was specifically designed to kill all private healthcare services IMO.

Once this is accomplished, which is likely to be very soon, the single payer option ie. sh*ty socialized medicine...will be the only solution promoted by your lefty friends.

 

[GenSeneca]

Not necessarily.

Yes necessarily. Controls breed controls. Is HC more regulated now than it was 10 years ago? How about 25 years ago? How about 50?

You argue there is a "Balance" of government controls and free market in HC but all the historical evidence points to ever increasing government controls and a constant reduction of the free market, which clearly indicates that this search for the perfect "balance" will only end once the private sector is eliminated from HC.

total free market solutions

The free market works, every time it's tried.

Command and control fails, every time it's tried.

The "mixed" market is also doomed to eventual failure because it's a Progressive transformation from a free market to a Command & Control market. Just as governemnt spending cannot sustain a C&C economy, it has also proven it's inability to sustain a "Mixed" market economy.

We will continue to have a mix of private and public money in health care.

Then things will continue to get Progressively worse in HC... Costs will increase, services will decrease, and government will take an ever larger role in HC until the system collapses.

 

[GenSeneca]

How about doing what is best for his constituents, even if it conflicts with what is best for the party?

I believe I understand what you mean by "best for his party", doing whatever helps his party to get and/or retain power.... But... You're going to have to explain exactly what you mean by "best for his constituents" because I still don't understand.

Politics is all about compromise.

Would you also say that science is all about compromise?

Don't dismiss that question, it's important, please answer it.

Ask this guy what happens when you speak out against your party

He's not returning my calls... Perhaps you could explain it... Was he doing what was "best" for his constituents by disagreeing with his own party?

Who decides what is "best" for his constituents anyway?

There seems to be a high percentage of voters who still believe in voodoo economics

If your talking about Keynesian economics, yes it's sad that so many people believe in that failed policy.

 

[BigRob]

And yet the Republicans offered nothing that would make the bill better for the American people. What did you guys offer, Big Rob?

I mean.. are you serious? Republicans offered an entire alternative bill at the time, the Patients Choice Act, and have offered numerous bills (and some new ones) that address the issues that the Democrats ignored, such as allowing insurance purchases across state lines and reforming outrageous lawsuits.

There is a whole page about it http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

 

[BigRob]

correct, actually a poll out a few days ago, don't have it in front of me, said that more people who did not approve of the bill...did so becuse it did not go far enough...then said it went to far....

It did not go far enough why? Because they wanted a public option? Maybe.. Maybe it did not go far enough because they want the option of buying insurance across state lines?

That point alone does not really tell us anything.

 

[Gipper]

I mean.. are you serious? Republicans offered an entire alternative bill at the time, the Patients Choice Act, and have offered numerous bills (and some new ones) that address the issues that the Democrats ignored, such as allowing insurance purchases across state lines and reforming outrageous lawsuits.

There is a whole page about it http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

So right.

The lefties do not know anything about what the Rs offered because their news outlets refused to report it. And, their news outlets kept reporting lies...they would claim the Rs are the party of no with nothing to offer...and the useful idiots believed...

This is why lefties are uninformed on most issues, which makes it most difficult to debate them.