Why Some Freedoms Are Bad Ideas

[Sihouette]

The thing is about kids...heh...

They only want what kids want and this world is frightfully adultish for them to come into unprepared..

This is nothing but the Montessori Method renamed. I've seen several montessori children who later transferred to public schools who needed special tutoring because it wasn't uncommon for them to not know how to read by the fifth grade. One fifth grader I knew who had attended this type of school along with both of his brothers, came up to me totally excited to inform that he had just learned how to spell "it". I started laughing like he was pulling my leg with some hidden joke. His face got this look of utter dismay on it like I'd crushed his soul. He ACTUALLY was excited that he ACTUALLY did just learn how to spell "it".

In the fifth grade...

It' took over a year (and extra money) to tutor this child to the level of at least third grade reader so they could fudge him through that grade and onto the next hopefully to catch up in the next year. In fact, a special teacher was hired just to bring these transfer kids somewhat up to par as they struggled to keep up with their classmates.

The montessori method is very popular amongst those same yuppie parents who believe that a child should never experience discipline in their lives. When we played their districts in sports events, those children were the most prone to violence, cheating and poor sportsmanship that we've ever seen. One group of these kids from a special charter school (don't get me started there) who touted the same line of no adult-discipline were invited at Halloween to visit a local pumpkin patch a friend of mine does, basically just to break even and entertain the community. She had a beautiful corn maze set up that she'd slaved away at creating for months. These kids came at the very start of the season to visit the patch. They went into the corn maze and TOTALLED it, rolling around, crashing through the tall stalks until there was nothing but mashed down bare patches. The adults stood by whimpering insipid little "no, don'ts" while the kids utterly oblivious to the concept of adult authority or guidance completely ignored them and did exactly as they pleased. My friend was devastated and swore from then on she was never doing a corn maze again and was even thinking of quitting the pumpkin farm too. I consoled her and begged her not to let one group of undisciplined future-criminals ruin her mojo. I was pleased to see this year she took my advice and kept the farm going. Needless to say that particular school will never be allowed to step foot on her property again.

A footnote. Remember the three brothers of which one was so proud in the fifth grade of being able to spell "it"? All three have turned to drugs and crime by adulthood.

It's probably just a coincidence.

The old timers used to say "spare the rod/ spoil the child". That doesn't mean abuse or beating children daily like some past extremists did. It means to use the rod sparingly to guide the child towards that which s/he has no common sense to gravitate to or from. The rod is a tangible boundary that children must come up against eventually whether it is an actual rod in the parent's hand or a figurative one in the courtroom sentence of time to be time served. Or the rod of poverty as it whips at the back of the underskilled goofoff once all the cute babyfat has melted from his face and his teeth begin to rot. Better to spank little johnny's butt when he's trying to light the cat on fire than to wait for him to grow up and try to arson his neighbors barn because he doesn't like the way the cows are looking at him.

In the classroom, the "rod" is the mandatory hoops a child must pass through in order to be able to compete in an adult world that will not allow him one iota of goof time if s/he is to survive and make something of her/himself, instead of ending up on welfare or worse... The worst feature of the motessori program is that it doesn't take into account that children are in need of guidance. Maybe the new method of motessori teaching also will weave no crossing-guards at busy school intersections for children to cross? After all, the child should be allowed to cross whenever they show an intiative to..

 

[Dr.Who]

That appears to be a criticism of some Montessori schools. Though clearly there are others that do a wonderful job. And private schools in general do a better job than public schools and home schooled children outperform all the rest on average.

But based on the title you gave the thread it appears that your concern is not with Montessori schools but with making sure that people conclude that choice of schooling is a bad idea.

That is not the conclusion they should draw. They should draw the conclusion that people should have choices except when those choices hurt others. Sending a kid to school and not teaching him is a choice that hurts that kid. Assuming you are correct about the Montessori schools you described those schools and/or parents should be held accountable for failing to do what they were obligated to do - teach to certain standards. Of course most inner city schools commit what can only be described as a criminal act of negligence when they fail to teach whole communities and then those same communities are left less able to cope with poverty.

True freedom allows parents to send their kids to any school that will give them a good education and true equality will allow all parents in a given taxing district to do so with the same amount of taxpayer funds.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The old timers used to say "spare the rod/ spoil the child". That doesn't mean abuse or beating children daily like some past extremists did. It means to use the rod sparingly to guide the child towards that which s/he has no common sense to gravitate to or from.

Sometimes, the old-timers are wrong!!!​

 

[PLC1]

So, children need discipline.

Gee, you think?

After nearly forty years in public education, I can assure you that children do, beyond any doubt at all, need discipline.

I'm not sure what that has to do with parents having the ability to choose which school their children should attend, though.

Discipline, by the way, begins with the parents.

 

[Sihouette]

If parents choose a school with near zero discipline, as they would be wont to do if they were irrationally fearful that baby boo boo might have to follow some rules (see: the "me" yuppie generations) then we as a society will pay for that decision. Or didn't I make the connection between childhood lack of discipline and ultimate slothful and criminal behavior clear enough?

It's not just montessori schooling, it's any environment that fosters lack of respect and boundaries for others, as well as fostering an irresponsible idea in the child's mind that he will "make it" be "loved and accepted" no matter what he chooses to do or not do. That is not, nor ever will be the real world this child will eventually be expected to function in.

Bear in mind love is also important. An equal and fair amount of love and discipline, not arbitrary either but with timing that fosters a gravitation towards learning, those are the ingredients of a well-rounded and healthy contributing adult.

Society has structure for a reason. Anarchy dissolves us to our lowest animal form wherein self becomes paramount and "other-than-self" becomes a commodity to use or discard at one's whims. Sociopaths and narcissists are made in this way. We teach morality by providing clear and tangible boundaries wherein a child can envision that what ill he does to another via actions or inactions will ultimately come back to hurt him. Altruism comes from the heart and eventually the child can walk the bridge between learned respect and actual felt respect for others.

Teach a child that and the three Rs will follow as a matter of course.

 

[Dr.Who]

Well, sil,

I see now that this was not what I thought it was, I apologize for leaping to conclusions. I applaud you for being a big person and responding as you did.

I agree completely that children (and all people) need discipline. They need to know that there are limits to what they can get away with. They need to know that good work is rewarded and poor is not. We all need to know that merit has merit.