Why Gloomy Pundits and Politicians Are Wrong About America's Education System

[dogtowner]

much direction comes from the state (at least here in Va) and they are certainly influenced by.feds via money.

but the local boards have responsibility to try and get it all covered.

and the actual responsibility falls on staff at the schools.

its a complex set of relationships and thats not good. feds should be totally out of it state limited and let these elected boards (elected here at least) work with the locals to give the people what they want.

 

[PLC1]

Wrong. The p-schools are essentially run by the federal government. Who dictates all sorts of rule and regulations the schools must abide by.

education is a responsibility of the states, which is why the federal Department of Education should be closed. Yes, the "p schools" are influenced by the federal government. They are run by local school boards.

What we need is more competition in secondary education and elimination of teachers unions.

The first part of that statement is correct. We also need more competition in primary education.

So what if no nation has both an educated populace and an ALL private education system....why did you raise this strawman argument???...when I did not raise it...Did I suggest the p-schools be done away with? Did I state we need an all private education system? Why make up nonexistent arguments, when you and I can argument real ones?

So, you don't think public schools should be done away with?

Can you see how one would draw that conclusion from your hyperbolic rhetoric?

Liberals runs the p-schools from top to bottom and we know liberals ALWAYS impose their political beliefs on those they can, because they are ALWAYS right. Certainly you know this.

Then the local voters need to elect non liberals to the school boards, correct?

And you say the war on poverty is PROBABLY more expensive than the war on drugs....oh please stop. Did you forget being schooled on the subject....from three years ago....and you call yourself a teacher......https://www.houseofpolitics.com/threads/costliest-war.9719/

my bad. I should have said that the war on poverty is definitely more expensive than that second most expensive failed government program, the war on drugs.

and by eliminating the top two failed government programs, we could streamline the government considerably and save a ton of money in the process.

 

[Gipper]

education is a responsibility of the states, which is why the federal Department of Education should be closed. Yes, the "p schools" are influenced by the federal government. They are run by local school boards.



The first part of that statement is correct. We also need more competition in primary education.



So, you don't think public schools should be done away with?

Can you see how one would draw that conclusion from your hyperbolic rhetoric?



Then the local voters need to elect non liberals to the school boards, correct?



my bad. I should have said that the war on poverty is definitely more expensive than that second most expensive failed government program, the war on drugs.

and by eliminating the top two failed government programs, we could streamline the government considerably and save a ton of money in the process.

I suppose we can argue what the word "run" means, as it relates to education in America. In reality, the Feds tell the schools what to do and they do it. So, I suppose you are right.

And we agree...the DOE needs to be eliminated, but thanks to liberalism, it never will be. In fact, it will grow and grow and grow.

Yes...my fault for not mentioning primary education as well.

No I do not see the hyperbole. It is best not to jump to conclusions, make assumptions, and present strawman arguments.

Non-liberals on school boards will do nothing, when most of the administrators, teachers, unions, and the Feds are libs. Libs run the show and that is the main reason why public education has, is and will continue to SUCK.

You might read Michelle Malkin's columns on this subject. I know...I know...you will scream she is a right wing nut, but I beg you to refute any of her findings rather than calling her names.

Here is a tidbit....

The Washington, D.C., board of education earned widespread mockery this week when it proposed allowing high school students — in the nation’s own capital — toskip a basic U.S. government course to graduate. But this is fiddlesticks compared to what the federal government is doing to eliminate American children’s core knowledge base in English, language arts and history.
Thanks to the “Common Core” regime, funded with President Obama’s stimulus dollars and bolstered by duped Republican governors and business groups, deconstructionism is back in style. Traditional literature is under fire. Moral relativism is increasingly the norm. “Standards” is Orwell-speak for subjectivity and lowest common denominator pedagogy.
Take the Common Core literacy “standards.” Please. As literature professors, writers, humanities scholars, secondary educators and parents have warned over the past three years, the new achievement goals actually set American students back by de-emphasizing great literary works for “informational texts.”Challenging students to digest and dissect difficult poems and novels is becoming passe. Utilitarianism uber alles.
The Common Core English/language arts criteria call for students to spend only half of their class time studying literature, and only 30 percent of their class time by their junior and senior years in high school.
http://michellemalkin.com/2013/01/25/rotten-to-the-core-part-2-readin-writin-and-deconstructionism/

 

[PLC1]

I suppose we can argue what the word "run" means, as it relates to education in America. In reality, the Feds tell the schools what to do and they do it. So, I suppose you are right.

And we agree...the DOE needs to be eliminated, but thanks to liberalism, it never will be. In fact, it will grow and grow and grow.

Yes...my fault for not mentioning primary education as well.

No I do not see the hyperbole. It is best not to jump to conclusions, make assumptions, and present strawman arguments.

Non-liberals on school boards will do nothing, when most of the administrators, teachers, unions, and the Feds are libs. Libs run the show and that is the main reason why public education has, is and will continue to SUCK.

You might read Michelle Malkin's columns on this subject. I know...I know...you will scream she is a right wing nut, but I beg you to refute any of her findings rather than calling her names.

Here is a tidbit....

Most of that tidbit is an opinion piece. There is one fact that is cited, one you already mentioned:

One proposed change — to eliminate the requirement that students take a course in U.S. government to graduate from high school — has already proven particularly contentious, particularly among advocates for civics education. Slover said she recognizes the concern and considers that proposal “open to discussion.”
The board will hear public comment on the proposed changes at its Wednesday meeting. It plans to vote on the proposal on March 20.

It is interesting that it doesn't say that the federal government will decide on this issue, but the local school board.

and, if I may inject a bit more opinion into this discussion, IMO, a course in US government could be a lot of things, including "liberal" indoctrination, but if it really is a course in how the federal government is supposed to work, it would support the Libertarian platform much more than it would the "conservative" one.

 

[Gipper]

Most of that tidbit is an opinion piece. There is one fact that is cited, one you already mentioned:




It is interesting that it doesn't say that the federal government will decide on this issue, but the local school board.

and, if I may inject a bit more opinion into this discussion, IMO, a course in US government could be a lot of things, including "liberal" indoctrination, but if it really is a course in how the federal government is supposed to work, it would support the Libertarian platform much more than it would the "conservative" one.

You might consider reading both her columns on this subject before jumping to conclusions from a few paragraphs.

There is an amazing amount of research that has been published proving the failures of public education. If you have never read any of it, you obviously are terribly uninformed.

 

[PLC1]

You might consider reading both her columns on this subject before jumping to conclusions from a few paragraphs.

There is an amazing amount of research that has been published proving the failures of public education. If you have never read any of it, you obviously are terribly uninformed.

There is likewise a huge amount of research that has been published showing the opposite.

Since you're so well informed on the subject, what would be your plan to reform public education in this country?

 

[dogtowner]

You might consider reading both her columns on this subject before jumping to conclusions from a few paragraphs.

There is an amazing amount of research that has been published proving the failures of public education. If you have never read any of it, you obviously are terribly uninformed.

do you believe there sre ANY conservative voices on the DC school board ? they had one get in who did good so she was run out town on a rail.

its not really helpful to look at dc atlanta detroit etc and paint all other school boards with that same.brush.

 

[Gipper]

do you believe there sre ANY conservative voices on the DC school board ? they had one get in who did good so she was run out town on a rail.

its not really helpful to look at dc atlanta detroit etc and paint all other school boards with that same.brush.

I don't think there are many conservative voices on any school board nationwide. And as I stated above, it does not really matter. The Feds dictate what and how it is done and the school board dutifully follows orders. Public education nationwide is centralized in DC.

Do you think a conservative person on a school board, in a middle class district, can really impact what is taught and how it is taught in the schools?

 

[dogtowner]

I don't think there are many conservative voices on any school board nationwide. And as I stated above, it does not really matter. The Feds dictate what and how it is done and the school board dutifully follows orders. Public education nationwide is centralized in DC.

Do you think a conservative person on a school board, in a middle class district, can really impact what is taught and how it is taught in the schools?

dont have to believe it i know it for a fact. right here in my county. the public is very active here. makes a big difgerence

 

[Hobo1]

Here is something that may surprise you from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States#Funding_for_K.E2.80.9312_schools

One of the biggest debates in funding public schools is funding by local taxes or state taxes. The federal government supplies around 8.5% of the public school system funds, according to a 2005 report by the National Center for Education Statistics. The remaining split between state and local governments averages 48.7 percent from states and 42.8 percent from local sources. However, the division varies widely. In Hawaii local funds make up 1.7 percent, while state sources account for nearly 90.1 percent.[107]​

​

Only recently has the federal government been involve with education. The Constitution makes no mention that the US government has the responsibility for Public Education - that's why we have local School Boards.

I have the feeling a more accurate understanding of the quality of our Public Education if you look State-by-State.

 

[Gipper]

dont have to believe it i know it for a fact. right here in my county. the public is very active here. makes a big difgerence

I am glad to hear that, however my experience is just the opposite. I fear most of the nations schools have few conservatives in any position or at least ones that are outspoken and trying to change the culture of failure.

I suspect the p-schools are much like Hollywood, the MSM, academia, etc....where conservatives are silent for fear of being "black listed." History tells us whenever liberals get control of any organization or institution, they do all they can to eliminate diversity of opinions, especially conservative ones.

 

[PLC1]

I am glad to hear that, however my experience is just the opposite. I fear most of the nations schools have few conservatives in any position or at least ones that are outspoken and trying to change the culture of failure.

I suspect the p-schools are much like Hollywood, the MSM, academia, etc....where conservatives are silent for fear of being "black listed." History tells us whenever liberals get control of any organization or institution, they do all they can to eliminate diversity of opinions, especially conservative ones.

Why don't you run for the local school board and become the conservative voice locally?

 

[dogtowner]

Why don't you run for the local school board and become the conservative voice locally?

or organize community involvement

 

[Gipper]

or organize community involvement

I have done some of that of over the years. My strong conservative/libertarian views are not well accepted by many people....surprise...surprise..... Hell I got fired by one of the nations largest insurance firms because the two guys I reported to disliked my political views...and I was leading the region in production and had done so many times over the 12 years I worked there. They were both outspoken liberals. So as I say, it has been my experience that libs HATE people like me and will do whatever they can including lie, cheat, and steal to hurt people like me.

A leftist hates conservatives more than terrorists, murderers, and rapists.

 

[Gipper]

There is likewise a huge amount of research that has been published showing the opposite.

Since you're so well informed on the subject, what would be your plan to reform public education in this country?

The Great Thomas Sowell knows about the indoctrination of the kiddies in the government run schools. Do you really think a school board member can stop this shit?

You were an educator who likely contributed to the indoctrination and may not have even known it.

The Role of 'Educators'

A century later, we are seeing schools across America indoctrinating students to believe in all sorts of politically correct notions. The history that is taught in too many of our schools is a history that emphasizes everything that has gone bad, or can be made to look bad, in America -- and that gives little, if any, attention to the great achievements of this country.
If you think that is an exaggeration, get a copy of "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn and read it. As someone who used to read translations of official Communist newspapers in the days of the Soviet Union, I know that those papers' attempts to degrade the United States did not sink quite as low as Howard Zinn's book.
That book has sold millions of copies, poisoning the minds of millions of students in schools and colleges against their own country. But this book is one of many things that enable teachers to think of themselves as "agents of change," without having the slightest accountability for whether that change turns out to be for the better or for the worse -- or, indeed, utterly catastrophic.
This misuse of schools to undermine one's own society is not something confined to the United States or even to our own time. It is common in Western countries for educators, the media and the intelligentsia in general, to single out Western civilization for special condemnation for sins that have been common to the human race, in all parts of the world, for thousands of years.
In France between the two World Wars, the teachers' union decided that schools should replace patriotism with internationalism and pacifism. Books that told the story of the heroic defense of French soldiers against the German invaders at Verdun in 1916, despite suffering massive casualties, were replaced by books that spoke impartially about the suffering of all soldiers -- both French and German -- at Verdun.
Germany invaded France again in 1940, and this time the world was shocked when the French surrendered after just 6 weeks of fighting -- especially since military experts expected France to win. But two decades of undermining French patriotism and morale had done their work.
American schools today are similarly undermining American society as one unworthy of defending, either domestically or internationally. If there were nuclear attacks on American cities, how long would it take for us to surrender, even if we had nuclear superiority -- but were not as willing to die as our enemies were?
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/01/08/the-role-of-educators-n1482868/page/2