Who won the debate?

[BigRob]

Neither candidate would go out on a limb and get way specific on cuts. Both said cut waste (standard political line... exactly what Bush said). That's actually understandable because at the time of the debate no one new exactly the make up of the bailout.

Senator Obama brought up bringing the occupation in Iraq to a responsible end and stop wasting $10+ BILLION DOLLARS per month there while they themselves have a $79 BILLION DOLLAR surplus.

Senator Obama also explained cutting out corporate tax loopholes that reward companies for moving jobs over seas... and cutting subsidies (Corporate Welfare) to Big Oil already making record profits. And he said he go over all budget items looking to make cuts of programs that either weren't working or could work better in some other form.

He actually talked about this for quite a while I'm surprised you missed it.

Obama talked about more education (spending), college for all (spending), making people buy US cars (spending), alternative energy (spending).

McCain said he would cut ethanol subsidies totally (savings), and get back to fixed cost defense contracts (savings).

It would appear Obama had not done his homework... maybe it was above his pay grade of course.

 

[top gun]

BigRob;63636]You did not catch it, but a talking head told you it was so, so therefore it must be true!

I'm admittedly partisan. I take all these McCain policy mistakes as a given. But I was rather shocked that McCain's own cheerleaders on the Right pointed out how McCain made several huge campaign mistakes in this debate.

As McCain correctly pointed out the next President is not going to have to deal with is Iraq was the correct call, the next President will have to deal with what to do about it.

Is there anybody that doesn't realize this? Senator Obama & McCain both obviously know this situation exists.

What happened is Senator Obama pinned McCain to the mat listing vote after vote from the beginning of the invasion of Iraq where McCain made one absolute mistake after another (often siding with Bush).

McCain's whole hope is that he can fool the American people to believe the War started with the "surge" which of course it did not. What Senator Obama is saying that people can relate to is this...

A) I tell you not to take my car out drunk driving. But you say things will be fine it will be easy to drive everybody home. So against my objections you still take my car out drunk driving... and drive that car into a lake.

B) The passengers you had with you in my car die.

C) You try to back the car out of the lake yourself but just obviously cannot do it alone.

D) You then finally call everyone for help, Police, Para-Medics, and a Heavy Towing Service (a surge).

E) Then if you're John McCain you declare VICTORY because you yourself came up with a plan to get the car out of the lake! It is the most preposterous argument I have EVER heard!

John McCain has degenerated his entire campaign to a one trick pony like Rudy Giuliani did with 9-11. As Joe Biden rightfully said Rudy's whole campaign was a noun, a verb and 9-11. That's simply what McCain is doing... a noun, a verb and "the surge".

It just won't fly and reminding the nation you want to stay as long as possible at this huge bleed off of American Taxpayers Dollars considering our tough economic times at home was kinda stupid... and I'm glad that the Right pointed that out.

When asked what spending this would cause to be cut, Obama offered no specifics, and actually spoke of more spending. McCain offered actual examples. such as no ethanol subsidies, and fixed cost defense contracts.

Sure he did and I posted them in the above post.

I am glad you had to wait until a talking head validated your opinion before you had confidence in it. Way to have self-confidence there.

Like I said before I was trying my hardest to be objective. I'm not interested in how Keith Olberman fans (of which I'm one ) see these debates. I'm interested in how Independents look at these debates. And if I see even the Right condemning McCain you're damn sure I'm going to say it's noteworthy!

BREAKING STAT: As I'm typing I'm listening to these poll results on TV... Obama won the debate by 12 points 46-34... overall polling lead average (combined polls) has went up to 5 and is expected to be up to a projected 8 by tomorrow looking at the early results of the polling averages coming out for tomorrow.

 

[top gun]

Obama talked about more education (spending), college for all (spending), making people buy US cars (spending), alternative energy (spending).

McCain said he would cut ethanol subsidies totally (savings), and get back to fixed cost defense contracts (savings).

It would appear Obama had not done his homework... maybe it was above his pay grade of course.

Senator Obama talked about both things he would like to see improved and things he would like to see cut.

If he didn't do his homework... that says John McCain skipped class completely because the polls are trending even more Senator Obama's way SINCE THE DEBATE! From and average of almost 3 before the debate to 5 today to a projected 8 coming out tomorrow (MSNBC morning news 9/28/08).

 

[Pandora]

Neither candidate would go out on a limb and get way specific on cuts. Both said cut waste (standard political line... exactly what Bush said). That's actually understandable because at the time of the debate no one new exactly the make up of the bailout.

Senator Obama brought up bringing the occupation in Iraq to a responsible end and stop wasting $10+ BILLION DOLLARS per month there while they themselves have a $79 BILLION DOLLAR surplus.

Senator Obama also explained cutting out corporate tax loopholes that reward companies for moving jobs over seas... and cutting subsidies (Corporate Welfare) to Big Oil already making record profits. And he said he go over all budget items looking to make cuts of programs that either weren't working or could work better in some other form.

He actually talked about this for quite a while I'm surprised you missed it.

Programs

the question was

what of your proposed PROGRAMS are you willing to cut. I think the mod settled for existing programs as well as proposed programs.

Iraq war is not a program and it doesnt matter if Obama cut the war on day one, he has already spent the money for the iraq war on his new PROGRAMS.

Obama has made it clear, we are going to continue to borrow the money from China for new programs just not war. Though he wants a bigger war in afganastan, not sure how he plans to pay for that since he has already said he will use Iraq war money on his new programs.

 

[BigRob]

I'm admittedly partisan. I take all these McCain policy mistakes as a given. But I was rather shocked that McCain's own cheerleaders on the Right pointed out how McCain made several huge campaign mistakes in this debate.

From what I have seen most McCain supporters have been saying he did well, but as you say, it is all in how you interpret it.

Is there anybody that doesn't realize this? Senator Obama & McCain both obviously know this situation exists.

What happened is Senator Obama pinned McCain to the mat listing vote after vote from the beginning of the invasion of Iraq where McCain made one absolute mistake after another (often siding with Bush).

When you put what we knew then to what we know now in context. It made perfect sense to support the war. While yes this was a massive intelligence failure, I do not think that you can blame anyone for using what they viewed as good intelligence to make their decision.

Now that obviously we did not find WMD's that intelligence has come into question, but at the time, this was an unknown. I do not fault a legislator for acting on intelligence that was after the fact proved to be bad.

McCain's whole hope is that he can fool the American people to believe the War started with the "surge" which of course it did not. What Senator Obama is saying that people can relate to is this...

A) I tell you not to take my car out drunk driving. But you say things will be fine it will be easy to drive everybody home. So against my objections you still take my car out drunk driving... and drive that car into a lake.

B) The passengers you had with you in my car die.

C) You try to back the car out of the lake yourself but just obviously cannot do it alone.

D) You then finally call everyone for help, Police, Para-Medics, and a Heavy Towing Service (a surge).

E) Then if you're John McCain you declare VICTORY because you yourself came up with a plan to get the car out of the lake! It is the most preposterous argument I have EVER heard!

I do not think that is a fair assessment. I would liken it more to this:

1) You drive a car into a lake.
2) Half the people in the car are on the verge of death.
3) You say this is going so badly, so you say oh well, and bail out, leaving those to die. (Obama's plan)

or

3) Take swift action to change your course of action, and pull the almost dead out of the car, and then salvage the car.

John McCain has degenerated his entire campaign to a one trick pony like Rudy Giuliani did with 9-11. As Joe Biden rightfully said Rudy's whole campaign was a noun, a verb and 9-11. That's simply what McCain is doing... a noun, a verb and "the surge".

Sort of like "change" is for Obama?

I do not think that is all McCain has to say about his campaign though either.

It just won't fly and reminding the nation you want to stay as long as possible at this huge bleed off of American Taxpayers Dollars considering our tough economic times at home was kinda stupid... and I'm glad that the Right pointed that out.

I admit that I have a foreign policy bias, but sometimes I think that our foreign interests are more important than making sure everyone goes to college...

Further, do not pretend that much of that money would be used here. Our spending will increase in Afghanistan as well as other foreign places. None of this takes into account the 800 billion dollar aid bill Obama is rushing through the Senate either.

Sure he did and I posted them in the above post

I do not think saying "we will look at the budget and decide from there" instills much confidence. I would rather here about actual concrete plans, such as the few McCain mentioned.

Like I said before I was trying my hardest to be objective. I'm not interested in how Keith Olberman fans (of which I'm one ) see these debates. I'm interested in how Independents look at these debates. And if I see even the Right condemning McCain you're damn sure I'm going to say it's noteworthy!

Well it is nice you are making the effort. From my personal point of view I was disappointed with many of Obama's answers, but that is my opinion of course.

I was also disappointed that they took a lot of focus off foreign policy (although it is understandable). Perhaps in the next debate we can make up for the lost time?

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

Senator Obama brought up bringing the occupation in Iraq to a responsible end and stop wasting $10+ BILLION DOLLARS per month there while they themselves have a $79 BILLION DOLLAR surplus.

I just love the way Democrats always target the military budget (especially during a time of war) for cuts, when they're steadily increasing spending on all of their favorite "give away" programs, especially when it's all of those "give away" programs that are what is primarily responsible for our Debt and Deficit.

Kinda makes you wonder who's side they're really on.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

A) I tell you not to take my car out drunk driving. But you say things will be fine it will be easy to drive everybody home. So against my objections you still take my car out drunk driving... and drive that car into a lake.

B) The passengers you had with you in my car die.

C) You try to back the car out of the lake yourself but just obviously cannot do it alone.

D) You then finally call everyone for help, Police, Para-Medics, and a Heavy Towing Service (a surge).

E) Then if you're John McCain you declare VICTORY because you yourself came up with a plan to get the car out of the lake! It is the most preposterous argument I have EVER heard!

You've got John McCain confused with TEDDY KENNEDY!! And if I recall correctly, you Democrats weren't too anxious to prosecute him, so what's different now? Can we say H_P_O_C_R_I_T_E?!?!?!?!!?

 

[Pandora]

You've got John McCain confused with TEDDY KENNEDY!! And if I recall correctly, you Democrats weren't too anxious to prosecute him, so what's different now? Can we say H_P_O_C_R_I_T_E?!?!?!?!!?

I thought he was talking about Ted Kennedy too
till he went to C. and tried to get the car out

by the time he went to D. and asked for help, I knew he wasnt talking about Ted since Ted let the woman die and ran.

 

[Popeye]

You've got John McCain confused with TEDDY KENNEDY!! And if I recall correctly, you Democrats weren't too anxious to prosecute him, so what's different now? Can we say H_P_O_C_R_I_T_E?!?!?!?!!?

Chappaquiddick happened in what, 1969? Going back 40 years is another sign of desperation.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

Chappaquiddick happened in what, 1969? Going back 40 years is another sign of desperation.

No, it's evidence of context and institutional memory. Perhaps if you were old enough to remember it, you'd realize why it's still important today, after all, isn't Teddy STILL a member of the Congress? "Those who fail to learn from their history are doomed to repeat it", apparantly doesn't mean anything to libs, especially since so often it proves them to be liars, cheats, sodomites, murderers, and what Lenin called "useful idiots".

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

I thought he was talking about Ted Kennedy too
till he went to C. and tried to get the car out

by the time he went to D. and asked for help, I knew he wasnt talking about Ted since Ted let the woman die and ran.

Now now, let's be fair, Teddy did call for help, a few hours later , but he did call for help. Also, they did pull the car out too, so the parallels are still there.

 

[Pandora]

Chappaquiddick happened in what, 1969? Going back 40 years is another sign of desperation.

LOL so that makes it ok


you are so funny its almost cute

 

[Pandora]

Now now, let's be fair, Teddy did call for help, a few hours later , but he did call for help. Also, they did pull the car out too, so the parallels are still there.

well "they" as in some subservent police man not Kennedy

but ok

lets say its equal


Oh I wish I could laugh as easy for the rest of my day as I can here at the HOP