Who Shouldnt Have Guns?

OK Spicoli, I'll start using small words so that you can follow along. If a "right" can be taken away from you without specific adjudication from a court of law, it's NOT A RIGHT, it's a PRIVILEGE. The 14th Amendment specifically says that the State CAN deny your "right" to vote for President, VP, etc., with the only penalty being that they cannot count you toward representation in Congress.

that is your interpretation.

The fact that you have begun to use personal insults proves you have no more valid arguments.

As I said, California may have been the first. I said that for a couple of very specific reasons; 1) I don't know, and 2) I don't really care because it simply doesn't matter, and is not germane to the discussion as I have already shown that your entire premise was flawed.

It is germane in that, if Missouri or if California were the first, then there weren't any before that. That's what first usually means.

OK, I'm sorry for having to do this, let's try it this way; ASSH*LE, PAY ATTENTION!! Women have been able to own their own property here since at least 1680, and I already gave you two States in which this was the case. I was also VERY careful to specify that each State had their own laws on who could and could not, so your assertions are still BULLSH*T!! What you are talking about is having a CODIFIED LAW as part of a States Code whereby women could not be denied the ability to own property, but that is NOT the same as saying that women could or could not own property by CUSTOM, which was the case in much of Colonial America.

I see you have descended yet again into personal insult and shouting. See my answer above.


You and top gun went to the same school didn't you? The words "all men are created equal" comes from the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, which was written by THOMAS JEFFERSON! They are NOT contained anywhere in the Constitution. Oh, and one other thing you might want to bear in mind is the fact that the Declaration of Independence, in the scheme of things, really doesn't mean anything as far as the laws and customs of America, that's what the CONSTITUTION is for.

The words you quoted were from the Constitution.

The words "All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence.

Your point? And what's with the shouting yet again, have you no further valid arguments?

Again incorrect. You stated that women had NEVER been allowed to own property, and you did not qualify that statement by saying "in America". You made an incorrect statement.

Which, of course, you said earlier was playing word games.

I'm sorry you missed the post, but the issue came up earlier and I pointed out that I'm Native American.

Yes, I missed that.

I must say, I'm relieved to note you're not arguing for black slavery, or for the 18th. century idea that they aren't human.

Of course, there were some European explorers who wondered whether the natives were human, too.


Ah yes, the old "poverty" canard. Poverty has nothing to do with ones ability to apply themselves and achieve their goals. Some of the richest men in the history of our country were born into poverty that makes todays "poverty" look like Beacon Hill by comparison.

Sure. And Bush, for example, would still have attended Harvard Business School and then become president had he been born in Appalachia to a coal mining family. His cocaine use would never have resulted in prison, either. Everyone has the same opportunities, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

(That, in case you're wondering, was sarcasm. I thought it was funny. Did you?)

Again, you're painting with a VERY broad brush, which is NOT accurate. SOME of the FF's felt that way, SOME partially felt that way, and SOME didn't feel that way at all, so your statement is still false. Jefferson himself, you know, the guy who wrote those words, was all about "all men are created equal" including Blacks, Native Americans, AND women, but there were too many others who didn't share his views that prevented it from being achieved in 1788 when the Constitution was finally ratified.

How is it, then, that the man who penned those words kept black slaves himself?


And the point that I've been trying VERY hard to get you to comprehend is that the declaration "all men are created equal" was written by a man who did in fact mean it to include all mankind. The fact that it didn't work out that way by the time of the ratification does not alter the fact that that is EXACTLY what he meant when he wrote them.


Were these 187 human beings also included in that statement?


Very true, so get down to your local gun store and buy yourself an M-16, some magazines, a few thousand rounds of ammo, and start practicing!!! I'll be expecting a range report by Monday.

As I said before, I don't choose to spend my money that way. If that's what you want to do, go for it.

I'm saving up for some of those SAMs you said I could have.:D
 
Werbung:
that is your interpretation.

The fact that you have begun to use personal insults proves you have no more valid arguments.

That right there is the only proof that I need that you acknowledge that you've lost the debate. ANY time someone comes up with "that's your opinion", or "that's your interpretation", that is an acknowledgement that they've lost, that they KNOW that they've lost, and they've got nothing left but to equivocate and obfuscate.

As for the "insults", when someone insists on perpetuating a lie as you have throughout this discussion, and willfully refusing to accept facts, they deserve to be insulted, harshly, and publically.

As I said, California may have been the first. I said that for a couple of very specific reasons; 1) I don't know, and 2) I don't really care because it simply doesn't matter, and is not germane to the discussion as I have already shown that your entire premise was flawed.

It is germane in that, if Missouri or if California were the first, then there weren't any before that. That's what first usually means.

But you never specified a State that had a law on the books specifically designed to protect a womans right to own property, you said, repeatedly, that women were not allowed to own property in America, which I clearly demonstrated was an incorrect statement.

I see you have descended yet again into personal insult and shouting. See my answer above.

If you don't like being insulted, stop be willfully stupid.

The words you quoted were from the Constitution.

The words "All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence.

Your point? And what's with the shouting yet again, have you no further valid arguments?
Hey, you're the one that conflated the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence, not me.

I have all kinds of very valid arguements, but apparantly they're WAY over your head, so I was making sure that you could hear them.

Which, of course, you said earlier was playing word games.

You made an incorrect statement, I tried very hard to point out the fallicy of that statement and to give you the ability to correct it, but you persisted with your fallacious statements. It's not "word games" to try to get someone to say what they really mean.

Yes, I missed that.

It happens

I must say, I'm relieved to note you're not arguing for black slavery,

Of course not, who would? I'm for GREEN SLAVERY, and LIBERAL SLAVERY!

or for the 18th. century idea that they aren't human.

And then you go and spoil it by making another of your silly a$$ed "broad brush" statements! Not everyone in the 18th century shared that idea, and by saying it the way you did is intellectually disingenuous.

Of course, there were some European explorers who wondered whether the natives were human, too.

There are people walking around today who seriously wonder if the person they're standing next to is "human"! For that matter, if you ask Sen. Robert KKK Byrd, he'd probably say to this day that Blacks aren't human.

Sure. And Bush, for example, would still have attended Harvard Business School and then become president had he been born in Appalachia to a coal mining family. His cocaine use would never have resulted in prison, either. Everyone has the same opportunities, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

(That, in case you're wondering, was sarcasm. I thought it was funny. Did you?)

Not really. But then again, the fact that Barry Obliviot can be selected President even though he's not even an American citizen, a self avowed doper, who's parents weren't legally married, and came from a broken home after his bigamist Kenyan father abandoned he and his mother to go back to Kenya and his other wives pretty much proves that anything can happen in America today.

How is it, then, that the man who penned those words kept black slaves himself?

First of all, he inherited them, along with the 2,400 acre farm at 14 years of age when the elder Jefferson suddenly died. The fact is that freedmen were routinely kidnapped and sold "down the river" to slavery in the Lousiana Territory or other places outside the Colonies where their life expectancy was very short. Jefferson knew this, and though he unsuccessfully worked throughout his lifetime to get slavery abolished, he couldn't condemn the people he had grown up with to certain death, so he kept them, essentially to save their lives.

Were these 187 human beings also included in that statement?[/URL]

Asked and answered.

As I said before, I don't choose to spend my money that way. If that's what you want to do, go for it.

I'm saving up for some of those SAMs you said I could have.:D

I've got mine, having bought it shortly after I got out of the service nearly 30 years ago, and I maintain my proficiency regularly.

As far as the SAM's, why buy when you can build your own a lot cheaper, and with a much better guidance system than you can with anything you're going to buy "off the shelf" (and no "permits")? ;)
 
And your point is? The fact that Jefferson owned slaves holds no bearing on the fact that he worked his entire life to ABOLISH the practice.

I think that's the KKK position of today Barney. They really like Blacks fine as slaves when it suites their purpose.


Ah yes, please let's recycle a totally discredited piece of "Hate America First" claptrap from back in 2005.

I could post any number of others that document the same thing... but you'd just deny all of them as well.

The fact is you're a poser and an liar in your real life, so when you feel insignificant on the board you just pretend to be a Cop... you just make stuff up to suit your purpose at the time.

So it's natural that you would think you can deny history in the same way... with a lie. Just say things were peachy, the slaves were treated great, founders did it but didn't like slavery, the poor victimized leaders were just forced into it... and the poser history is rewritten.

Well Barn it doesn't work that way in America anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Baliffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little enadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

Why did Bob lie to us for Cop credability... has he no shame or self worth?


 
I think that's the KKK position of today Barney. They really like Blacks fine as slaves when it suites their purpose.

Ah yes, the cry of the typical "Hate America First" Obliviot supporter. Deny all facts, truth, and historical context that don't support your revisionist fantasy world. Try reading some REAL history instead of getting your talking points from Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the rest of the race baiters.


I could post any number of others that document the same thing... but you'd just deny all of them as well.

Well, when you bring in a fantasy "crime novelist" as your source, and I bring in actual historical documents, including the writings of the founders themselves, you make it entirely too easy to debunk your "sources".

Tell ya what (I don't know why I'm bothering, because I know you won't take the time to read it) but try educating yourself for a change instead of constantly regurgitating the same tired old, and completely intellectually disingenuous tripe.
Thomas Jefferson, On Slavery

I realize it's rather long, uses a lot of words you're obviously not going to be familiar with (you'll have to use a Dictionary), and it only has one picture, so it may take you a couple of days to digest it, but it's a start.
 
Ah yes, the cry of the typical "Hate America First" Obliviot supporter...

Barney I've been fair with ya... but you're just full of dog doo doo. I can't help that. Why did you lie about being a Cop? That was just terrible. And now you try to portray the founders as perfect people... :confused:

Goofballs like you that want to romanticize wrong into right just because they happen to be from our side are ridiculous & liars (I guess after the whole posin' like a Cop lie no big deal for you though huh?)

Well I don't roll that way. The truth is the truth no matter if it's my side or their side or no side.

And the truth is if you look at the standards of the day... slavery was the norm. It was nothing like it is now. If someone today other than your Right Wing sheet people were to say let's enslave people there would be a huge outcry from everybody.

Back then most people with land and money had slaves so it was just one of those things. Anybody can be philosophically against something. But if they still participate in it they are equally as wrong. If you steal a candy bar because you want a candy bar or you steal a candy bar but feel bad because you know stealing is wrong... you're equally the thief.

And then let's follow the REAL history of Blacks in the United States after that. As a people they were treated like 2nd class dogs even after they were freed. In the south it was atrocious. So bad, so many beatings and killings on top of segregation Kennedy had to sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Johnson another one in 1968.

So this whole screw over the Blacks thing isn't really something missed in American history books.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

Bob the Builder lie to us all and said he was a Cop to try & gain some undeserved credability... but we nipped it in the bud!:D

 
Correction for complete acuracy... Kennedy put forward the 1964 Civil Rights Act but was assassinated before he could sign it... Johnson actually signed it into law.

Barney I've been fair with ya... but you're just full of dog doo doo. I can't help that. Why did you lie about being a Cop? That was just terrible. And now you try to portray the founders as perfect people... :confused:

Goofballs like you that want to romanticize wrong into right just because they happen to be from our side are ridiculous & liars (I guess after the whole posin' like a Cop lie no big deal for you though huh?)

Well I don't roll that way. The truth is the truth no matter if it's my side or their side or no side.

And the truth is if you look at the standards of the day... slavery was the norm. It was nothing like it is now. If someone today other than your Right Wing sheet people were to say let's enslave people there would be a huge outcry from everybody.

Back then most people with land and money had slaves so it was just one of those things. Anybody can be philosophically against something. But if they still participate in it they are equally as wrong. If you steal a candy bar because you want a candy bar or you steal a candy bar but feel bad because you know stealing is wrong... you're equally the thief.

And then let's follow the REAL history of Blacks in the United States after that. As a people they were treated like 2nd class dogs even after they were freed. In the south it was atrocious. So bad, so many beatings and killings on top of segregation Kennedy had to put forward the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Johnson had to sign that and yet another one in 1968.

So this whole screw over the Blacks thing isn't really something missed in American history books.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.


Bob the Builder lied to us all and said he was a Cop to try & gain some undeserved credability... but we nipped it in the bud!:D

 
top gun, you are nothing but a liar. Even the alleged "quote" you put up is nothing but a pure manufactured lie, which is why you can't put a hyperlink to the original quote in it. You made it up out of whole clothe because I whipped your sorry punk a$$, and showed everyone on the forum how much of a total loser you are.

You have no credibility. YOU LOSE!
 
top gun, you are nothing but a liar. Even the alleged "quote" you put up is nothing but a pure manufactured lie, which is why you can't put a hyperlink to the original quote in it. You made it up out of whole clothe because I whipped your sorry punk a$$, and showed everyone on the forum how much of a total loser you are.

You have no credibility. YOU LOSE!

Not at all Barney.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

That's simply a collage of the idiotic stuff you said except for the astronaut drinking Tang and you dogging yourself out... and there's more if I wanted to waste my time digging it up.

It wasn't hard to go back a pick thing after thing that blew that whole lie about being a Cop so far out of the water it's still airborne! Everybody knows you're not a Cop and I'll give you credit you just let that one go.

You made a mistake and embellished to sound more credabile... and you know I wouldn't have even cared. People do that sometimes. But when you start this stupid busting out for spell check or play the, you don't know one document from another BS when the point was about the meaning of the words not where they came from... that's just childish and weak.

The difference between us is when I saw I accidentally cited the wrong document I was a man about it and just said... My bad that was my mistake I meant this...

You... ?

I'd be glad to get back to a real discussion if you want? Start over and pick one without the insults I'll match you.


 
Not at all Barney.

That's simply a collage of the idiotic stuff you said except for the astronaut drinking Tang and you dogging yourself out... and there's more if I wanted to waste my time digging it up.


It's a "collage", as you call it, of crap that you completely made up, with only a smattering of my statements, and present it out of context, which only enforces your own embarassment about the fact that I KICKED YOUR ASS.

You claim that the only thing you made up was about the astronaut, yet you neglect to acknowledge that NOWHERE did I say that I couldn't carry my firearm into the courthouse. That is a complete fiction of your own mind, as the exact statement I made, in it's complete context, along with the accompanying hyperlink below clearly demonstrates.

I have no problem with a business CHOOSING to decide for themselves if they want weapons in their establishment, but what I DO take issue with is the government blatantly violating the Constitution by denying citizens the right to carry their legally owned firearms into Banks, Schools, Courthouses, and other PUBLIC buildings. I suppose the whole concept was a bit much for me to expect you to pick up on right away.

Simply put, you are a LIAR, and are totally discredited. I suggest that you skulk away, crawl back beneath whatever rock it is that you crawled out from under, and STAY THERE alongside the rest of the vermin where you rightfully belong.
 
It's a "collage", as you call it...

Yes Barney that's exactly what it is. You are not a Cop... you made a lot of ignorant statements that any Law Enforcement Officer would never make including complaining that you should be able to carry your gun into the courthouse... which of course a Police Officer could do.

You are a weak pathetic poser. You are embarrassed of yourself so you build a fantasy around you to try and eek out some little bit of unearned credibility.

And furthermore you only rant, argue, insult and fight because it keeps you from having to actually debate about anything.

It makes no difference to me what you do. I'm willing to just insult you right back every single time and remind people that you are an insecure little poser... or you can just grow up and debate with me on any issue.

Think of it this way... if you're not afraid why not drop the insults and show everybody you can just make better points? I'm more than willing to do that... just tell me where and when and I'll show up.

If I ever see a real attempt to discuss an issue minus the insults I'll do exactly the same. If not then we know you must not have any game other than the insults.

Think about it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

Bob the Builder lied to us all and said he was a Cop to try & gain some undeserved credability... but we nipped it in the bud!:)

 
TG, the difference between you and I is that I can tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about you, and prove to everyone that you're a worthless lying sack of dog vomit. On the other hand, you have to lie, obfuscate, equivocate, and invent crap in order to even attempt to go after someone else.

You're just like so many of the cretens that I deal with on a regular basis who can't even tell the truth when their lives depend on it, and it's really sad.

Now, like I said before, go hide back under your rock before someone sees you, and sends Orkin after you.
 
TG, the difference between you and I is that I can tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about you, and prove to everyone that you're a worthless lying sack of dog vomit. On the other hand, you have to lie, obfuscate, equivocate, and invent crap in order to even attempt to go after someone else.

You're just like so many of the cretens that I deal with on a regular basis who can't even tell the truth when their lives depend on it, and it's really sad.

Now, like I said before, go hide back under your rock before someone sees you, and sends Orkin after you.

So Barney what you are saying is... you won't discuss anything without the insults and name calling. I understand... I think it's childish, but I understand.

I was merely trying to get this conversation on a more topic related theme than just, na na na boo boo you're a sack of dog vomit. Obviously that's the only level you are willing to reach for and where you want to keep it.

I hope at some point you will reconsider. Just post something reasonable without the insults and I'll be glad to engage you on that topic in a very friendly manor.

Or just keep being a Barney poser... it's doesn't really matter to me. I'm just tryin' to get this thing back on issues if possible. But this isn't a one way street. You have to be willing to go back and forth without all the insults & BS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

Bob the Builder lied to us all and said he was a Cop to try & gain some undeserved credability... but we nipped it in the bud!

 
tg, the only thing you've "tried" to do is equivocate, obfuscate, and outright LIE about every aspect of the discussion, and the only reason you're surrendering now is because it's finally dawned upon you that I'm not going to let your lies and sophistry stand without challenge. I have repeatedly proven that YOU are the liar, and the fact that you continue to do so in the face of overwhelming proof only serves to diminish your credibility, which at the moment is somewhere near the level of whale droppings.

If you really do want to have a civilized conversation, the first thing that's going to have to happen is for you to quit LYING, as I believe everyone fully understands that I deal harshly with LIARS like you. The second thing that you're going to have to do is to actually learn something about the topic at hand, because you're continual willful ignorance (read stupidity) will be no better received than it has been to date.
 
tg, the only thing you've "tried" to do is equivocate, obfuscate, and outright LIE about every aspect of the discussion, and the only reason you're surrendering now is because it's finally dawned upon you that I'm not going to let your lies and sophistry stand without challenge. I have repeatedly proven that YOU are the liar, and the fact that you continue to do so in the face of overwhelming proof only serves to diminish your credibility, which at the moment is somewhere near the level of whale droppings.

Barney we've already had this "na na na boo boo whale droppings" conversation.

I'm simply trying to give you a way out. You look terrible lying to everyone saying you were a Cop. Clearly you've said many things no Law Enforcement Officer would say. I'll give you another one... No Law Enforcement Officer is going to promote everyone off the streets bringing guns into the courtroom. That only puts their life in danger and makes their job at courtroom security even more difficult if not impossible.

That's why they have metal detectors at courthouses to keep guns out.

So you're busted as a poser. Someone trying to eek out some little extra undeserved ced and it blew up in your face... simple as that.

And I don't care if we talk about this forever... let's talk about this forever. I could care less about that?

I'm just saying if you ever grow up and decide you can drop the insults and the BS and still debate a subject... any subject... I'd be fine with sticking to the facts of that subject if you would.

It's totally up to you. I'm fine either way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Builder
In 20 years as a Deputy every courtroom I've ever been in has AT LEAST 3 armed Bailiffs, why can't I carry a gun into the courthouse, I mean you can ALWAYS use a gun to defend another person, I mean why can't you own a nuke, I mean when I was an astronaut we drank Tang, I mean I'm so ashamed of my little inadequate Bob the Builder self that I'm a poser.

Bob the Builder lied to us all and said he was a Cop to try & gain some undeserved credability... but we nipped it in the bud!

 
Werbung:
Barney we've already had this "na na na boo boo whale droppings" conversation.

I'm simply trying to give you a way out. You look terrible lying to everyone saying you were a Cop. Clearly you've said many things no Law Enforcement Officer would say. I'll give you another one... No Law Enforcement Officer is going to promote everyone off the streets bringing guns into the courtroom. That only puts their life in danger and makes their job at courtroom security even more difficult if not impossible.

That's why they have metal detectors at courthouses to keep guns out.


And once again you demonstrate the undeniable truth that you don't have the first clue WTF you're talking about. The metal detectors are there because FEDERAL LAW makes in a crime to carry a firearm into a courthouse. It's not up to the States, the Counties, or the Cities any longer because the Federal government took it upon themselves to once again USURP THE RIGHTS OF THE STATES AND OF THE PEOPLE! Of course the entire concept of Liberty and Freedom are completely lost on a "nanny stater" like you, who expects the government to take care of you from the cradle to the grave because you're entirely too much of a loser to take care of yourself.

As to the rest of your drivel, you're the one who has been proved to be a liar, and nobody is buying your silly game.
 
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