What do libs do on July 4th?

[PLC1]

Use one any of them, at least shows me equally how unintelligent someone is.

Exactly.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Evryone does not have the same rights, thanks to the Right Wing and yes some Dems. How do you think they are equal? They cant marry ( or civle union) meaning they cant file taxes the same, if one dies and hey had a kid, the other can have it taken way, unlike a "traditinal" family. They can't have there partner covered by health insurance, they can be banned from a hospital if they are only letting in Family....They are not treated as equal at all, becuse somehow in the US Gays are not treated like equals, some people dont agree.

Perhaps you would care to show me where in the Constitution it guarantees anyone the "right" to marry? Marriage is not a governmental institution, it's a personal one, so if they want to live together, they can, that is their right. If they can find a preacher to perform the ceremony, then they're married, whether or not their State or the Federal Government recognizes it. What the whole gay marriage thing boils down to is money, and special dispensations.

No, this, and every one of your alleged "discriminations" against gays applies equally to heterosexual couples who are "shacking up" and not married, so where's the discrimination? If they're just "shacking up", they can't be covered on their partners insurance policy, they can't just walk into the hospital room during "family only" time, unless they're listed as family on the admittance forms, they can't file joint returns. As for the children argument, perhaps I missed something in Biology (it has been several decades), but isn't it biologically impossible for a homosexual couple to procreate? Hell, if anyone has a legitimate right to complain, it's heterosexual couples who aren't married, there are more of them than there are homosexuals, but you don't hear them complaining do you? NO! Why not? Because they're not looking for anything special, they just want to live their lives and be left alone, just like everyone else.

In other words, whaaaa. It's much ado about nothing, all they're looking for is some kind of special dispensation, and that is completely incompatible with the Constitution.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Perhaps you would care to show me where in the Constitution it guarantees anyone the "right" to marry? Marriage is not a governmental institution, it's a personal one, so if they want to live together, they can, that is their right. If they can find a preacher to perform the ceremony, then they're married, whether or not their State or the Federal Government recognizes it. What the whole gay marriage thing boils down to is money, and special dispensations.

No, this, and every one of your alleged "discriminations" against gays applies equally to heterosexual couples who are "shacking up" and not married, so where's the discrimination? If they're just "shacking up", they can't be covered on their partners insurance policy, they can't just walk into the hospital room during "family only" time, unless they're listed as family on the admittance forms, they can't file joint returns. As for the children argument, perhaps I missed something in Biology (it has been several decades), but isn't it biologically impossible for a homosexual couple to procreate? Hell, if anyone has a legitimate right to complain, it's heterosexual couples who aren't married, there are more of them than there are homosexuals, but you don't hear them complaining do you? NO! Why not? Because they're not looking for anything special, they just want to live their lives and be left alone, just like everyone else.

In other words, whaaaa. It's much ado about nothing, all they're looking for is some kind of special dispensation, and that is completely incompatible with the Constitution.

I did not say Marriage , I said Marraige or Legal standing threw teh goverment = like Civil Union. If a church says no, fine. But also there are churches that are ok with it, and they are still not legaly binding to the goverment.

And last I checked the Constitution said we are all equal? That couple "shacking up" as you put it, if a gay and a girl, can marry. I can go get married drunk off my ass to a Vegas hooker, and its legally binding. a couple who is gay and has been in a loving relationship for 20 years, can not. Its not Equal, its Bias because mostly of a Christian Bias against anyone who does not fit what they view as a "traditional couple" of course they are free to Divorce 20 times if they wish.....

And with your idea , I could just say we ban marriage as well, since there is not right to in in the constitution. I could do alot of things because the Constitution does not say you have a right to it...I could ban SUV's , and just say well its not in the Constitution. But all of that would violate the constitution, even if he never said the words marriage or SUV in it anyplace.

The Last I checked , the Constitution did not say you are equal, so long as your as Christian and follow there values.

 

[top gun]

Now THAT'S funny. A liberal going after a conservative because he's homosexual.

I guess you never heard of Gerry Studds or Barney Franks huh? Trust me, the list of Lib fags is 10 times as long as from the other side of the isle, and the libs are FLAMERS. The biggest question though, is what does this have to do with the 4th of July? I mean, other than yet another lame attempt to hijack a thread and get it off topic?

First off Fed ol' boy this was just another "not a real thread" but a purposely insulting & baiting attack thread Libsmasher put up from the start. So there's nothing to keep on track about... it should have taken off the board from the start.

Secondly it's not homosexuality that is the point here... and you surely know it. The point is that while your friends in the neo-con smear machine make ridiculous and personally insulting false smears against anyone not in lock step with their agenda (which obviously includes Liberals)... even to go as far and as un-American as say that Liberals don't too love their country and don't celebrate their own country & freedom on the 4th of July...

your buddies themselves seem to have a lot of ELEPHANTITIS going on that they really need to be much more concerned with rather than critiquing other good American's Independence Day plans!

Conservative Republicans smoking crystal meth while engaging in paid sex with male prostitutes... chasing young male Congressional Pages for sex... trolling for gay airport restroom stall sex... on and on...

Being gay doesn't cause any of these things. Being a closeted hypocrite, that's what causes it.

You know... Good Americans... Glass Houses... that sort of thing goes around, comes around... but I can assure you it won't go unchallenged. I wish you guys would stop it but it's not hard to counter punch if that's the only game you play. Not like there's a lack of ammunition. We can go either way... it's really up to you.

 

[Federal Farmer]

I did not say Marriage , I said Marraige or Legal standing threw teh goverment = like Civil Union. If a church says no, fine. But also there are churches that are ok with it, and they are still not legaly binding to the goverment.

And last I checked the Constitution said we are all equal? That couple "shacking up" as you put it, if a gay and a girl, can marry. I can go get married drunk off my ass to a Vegas hooker, and its legally binding. a couple who is gay and has been in a loving relationship for 20 years, can not. Its not Equal, its Bias because mostly of a Christian Bias against anyone who does not fit what they view as a "traditional couple" of course they are free to Divorce 20 times if they wish.....

And with your idea , I could just say we ban marriage as well, since there is not right to in in the constitution. I could do alot of things because the Constitution does not say you have a right to it...I could ban SUV's , and just say well its not in the Constitution. But all of that would violate the constitution, even if he never said the words marriage or SUV in it anyplace.

The Last I checked , the Constitution did not say you are equal, so long as your as Christian and follow there values.

I've been saying for years that the government having ANYTHING to do with marriage is UN-CONSTITUTIONAL ON IT'S FACE. The government has no Constitutional Right to endorse or ban marriages, so the only proper thing for them to do is stop what they've been doing. People should be able to marry anyone that they want to, or not, but it's none of the governments business, and until you can show me where in Article 1 Section 8 it gives the government the right to interfere at all in our personal relationships, gay marriage is a MOOT POINT. It's not covered by the Constitution, so they have no claim other than to say that not allowing them is unconstitutional.

You are right about one thing though, the Constitution doesn't say we're all equal, ANYWHERE. It only guarantees "equal protection of the laws", and since gays are given "equal protection of the laws", again, no claim. You see PFOS, you've fallen victim to the common mis-comprehension of Rights v Privileges. Everything you're fussing about are privileges, not Rights, so there is no claim to them. If the government chooses to extend those privileges to gays, fine, if not, fine, but they are not Rights, and in fact, the governments intrusion into our personal lives at all is a violation of the Constitution by the government. Frankly, I'd love nothing more than to rip out every single 'law' in every Law book in the country that isn't specifically authorized by the Constitution, and then sit back and laugh my butt off while the sheeple scream bloody murder about it.

I guess the thing you still haven't figured out about me is this; I believe in the Constitution, period. There are a lot of things that the government does that are blatantly un-constitutional, some that people like, and some that they don't like, but until such time as We The People are willing to stand up, Conservative, Libertarian, and Liberal, and DEMAND that the government stick to ONLY those things that the Constitution specifically authorizes them to do, and NOTHING MORE, then we're going to be stuck with these little battles.

The Constitution does not provide for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, WIC, HUD, Section 8, NASA, the FBI, CIA, DEA, Administration for Children and Families (ACF), Administration on Aging (AoA), Administration on Developmental Disabilities, Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, African Development Foundation, Agency for Health care Research and Quality (AHRQ), Agency for International Development, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, Agricultural Marketing Service, Agricultural Research Service, Agriculture Department (USDA), Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (Treasury), Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives Bureau (Justice), American Battle Monuments Commission, American Forces Information Service, or most of the other governmental agencies that we're stuck with (LIST HERE), but are you willing to demand that they eliminate ALL of them? If so, GREAT, let's get started, if not, then you're being disingenuous and you need to re-evaluate whether you REALLY care about our country, or are you just another whiny little hand out recipient sucking on the government teet.

 

[top gun]

Perhaps you would care to show me where in the Constitution it guarantees anyone the "right" to marry? Marriage is not a governmental institution, it's a personal one, so if they want to live together, they can, that is their right. If they can find a preacher to perform the ceremony, then they're married, whether or not their State or the Federal Government recognizes it. What the whole gay marriage thing boils down to is money, and special dispensations.

Just look at what double talk you have going here...

The Constitution doesn't guarantee "right to marry"...

Straight: Great have the ceremony and make it legal...

Gay: If you can find a preacher to preform a marriage ceremony... fine. If that ceremony isn't recognized by the State or Federal government... fine again (I mean who cares anyway they're gay right!)

The whole idea is if a church will marry two people then it should be recognized equally for legal purposes. I know this is a complete and utter shock to you but there are benefits to being married. Like visiting privileges in the hospital or in jail, like next of kin situations, like probate issues, like family health insurance... on & on.

I mean come on. I'm as not gay as they come. But I'm straight not narrow (minded). If two adult people regardless of their sex are joined in a ceremony to live together in love... then they should be recognized legally.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

 

[Federal Farmer]

First off Fed ol' boy this was just another "not a real thread" but a purposely insulting & baiting attack thread Libsmasher put up from the start. So there's nothing to keep on track about... it should have taken off the board from the start.

Why? He gave every one of you the opportunity to act like adults and post your plans for the 4th, but as usual, you fell into your usual mantra of self abuse and flagellation. I took it as an opportunity to post my plans for the 4th, in the hopes that some of you would follow suit, but nope, you couldn't see past your own self induced insults and get to the purpose of the day, so that's completely on YOU.

Secondly it's not homosexuality that is the point here... and you surely know it. The point is that while your friends in the neo-con smear machine make ridiculous and personally insulting false smears against anyone not in lock step with their agenda (which obviously includes Liberals)... even to go as far and as un-American as say that Liberals don't too love their country and don't celebrate their own country & freedom on the 4th of July...

OH JESUS H. CHRIST ON A CRUTCH. Here we go with the "neo-con smear machine" crapola again. Will you do me a favor, Please? Pull your head out of your fourth point of contact long enough to take a breath of clean air once in a while, at least when addressing me? I've been nothing but civil in my discussion with most everyone here (well, except for the resident CT'er and mental midget, which I have since placed on my ignore list), whether they be Liberal, Libertarian, or Conservative. So, before you start in with your LIBTARD smear machine, at least try to remember who you're addressing.

your buddies themselves seem to have a lot of ELEPHANTITIS going on that they really need to be much more concerned with rather than critiquing other good American's Independence Day plans!

Well then, here's an idea, try IGNORING IT! Nobody held a gun to your head and made you post in this thread, so you must be here because you WANT to be, so again, your feigned indignation falls flat.

Conservative Republicans smoking crystal meth while engaging in paid sex with male prostitutes... chasing young male Congressional Pages for sex... trolling for gay airport restroom stall sex... on and on...

Oh, you mean just like the Liberal Democrat gays? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?

Being gay doesn't cause any of these things. Being a closeted hypocrite, that's what causes it.

OK, if you say so, but then should apply equally to all of your closeted hypocritical Liberal Democrat gays too shouldn't it? WHY DOESN'T IT THEN? Because it's not really about being a closeted hypocrite, it's about trying to score political points at the expense of people's PERSONAL LIVES! The fact is that every time you play your little "closeted hypocrite" game, you're only showing yourselves to be the hypocrites, because if you really cared about "gay rights" even half as much as you say you do, you'd be standing up demanding the the GOP leadership LEAVE THEM ALONE! Nope, it's hard to yell hypocrite when you're being more hypocritical than the ones your yelling it at.

You know... Good Americans... Glass Houses... that sort of thing goes around, comes around... but I can assure you it won't go unchallenged. I wish you guys would stop it but it's not hard to counter punch if that's the only game you play. Not like there's a lack of ammunition. We can go either way... it's really up to you.
[/COLOR]

Trust me, I can "play the game" if you really want to, and I've got a hell of a lot more ammunition than you do, but how about let's not, and say we were bigger than all of this childish BULL$HIT, and talk about remembering what the 4th is REALLY all about. Or don't you care enough about the sacrifices that were made for you to take at least one frickin' day a year to think about something other than yourself and your petty political BS?

 

[Federal Farmer]

Just look at what double talk you have going here...

The Constitution doesn't guarantee "right to marry"...

Straight: Great have the ceremony and make it legal...

Gay: If you can find a preacher to preform a marriage ceremony... fine. If that ceremony isn't recognized by the State or Federal government... fine again (I mean who cares anyway they're gay right!)

The whole idea is if a church will marry two people then it should be recognized equally for legal purposes. I know this is a complete and utter shock to you but there are benefits to being married. Like visiting privileges in the hospital or in jail, like next of kin situations, like probate issues, like family health insurance... on & on.

I mean come on. I'm as not gay as they come. But I'm straight not narrow (minded). If two adult people regardless of their sex are joined in a ceremony to live together in love... then they should be recognized legally.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

OK, now it's time for you to REALLY pull your head out and get some air! You're obviously so "open minded" that your brains have fallen out, so let's try this again, and I'll try not to use the big words that obviously confused you last time.

Did you not see how many times I've said that IT'S NONE OF THE GOVERNMENTS BUSINESS? This is NOT a gay/straight issue dummy, it's a CONSTITUTIONAL ONE. The government shouldn't be involved AT ALL, but since they are, and since there's no Constitutional guarantee concerning marriage, gays have no Constitutional legs to stand on. It is therefore left to the States to decide if they will, or will not recognize the legality of a gay marriage (as if they can dictate what is legal and what is not legal when it's not within their Constitutional Right to do so), but again, unless marriage is specifically addressed in the States Constitution, again, gays have no Constitutional legs to stand on.

And no, the whole point isn't about anybodies relationship being recognized legally, it's about NOBODIES relationships being recognized in any way, and the government butting completely out of things that don't concern them. Since the Constitution is silent on marriage, the government has no authority to recognize, or not recognize marriage, it's a 9th and 10th Amendment issue, meaning it's left up to We The People, and NOT the government at all.

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

 

[top gun]

Federal Farmer;50042]Why? He gave every one of you the opportunity to act like adults and post your plans for the 4th, but as usual, you fell into your usual mantra of self abuse and flagellation. I took it as an opportunity to post my plans for the 4th, in the hopes that some of you would follow suit, but nope, you couldn't see past your own self induced insults and get to the purpose of the day, so that's completely on YOU.

Your insults aside... It bothers me none that you enjoy the threads that smear and attack others for no other reason than that your real points contain great weakness.

I could go back and pull up not what Libs said in sarcasm but direct degrading quotes from your buddies... but you already know that.

That said this isn't like the old days this go around. The swift boating gets a quick response in kind. These are Progressives with stones this year my friend... you'll have to deal with it.

On the 4th of July Americans Liberal & Conservative enjoy time with their friends and families and consider just how great this country really is. We celebrated our Freedom & Independence. And we have a chance to think about one of our greatest gifts.

That no matter how screwed up our country gets by any political power... all it takes is an election if we really want as a people to change course.

God Bless America and all Americans.

 

[top gun]

Federal Farmer;50043]OK, now it's time for you to REALLY pull your head out and get some air! You're obviously so "open minded" that your brains have fallen out, so let's try this again, and I'll try not to use the big words that obviously confused you last time.

Again with the insults...

If it's not the governments business (which I totally agree) then stop trying so hard at blocking gays from getting legally married. I don't see in the Constitution were it say "Homosexuals may not get married in the United States of America" either...

On all that other proselytizing about "Where in the Constitution does it say it provides for... and you list off various Social Programs".

You're right... it doesn't! It did allow for slavery though.

So I'm thinking.... probably not a perfect document. Going out on a limb here and saying it's reasonable to believe times maybe might change over hundreds of years. That could just be my open minded Liberal brain falling out on the table but call me crazy... I don't think slavery was really a great thing. As things evolve we learn... and we try to do better. That's what Americans have always done.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Again with the insults...

You've earned them.

If it's not the governments business (which I totally agree) then stop trying so hard at blocking gays from getting legally married. I don't see in the Constitution were it say "Homosexuals may not get married in the United States of America" either...

I challenge you to show me ANYWHERE that I've said fags shouldn't be allowed to get "married". Come on, show me ANYWHERE that I've said that fags should not be allowed to get married. Oh, that's right, you CAN'T, which means that you've lied about me too. You lie about FoxNews, you lie about McCain, you lie about Obama, you lie about everything.

OK dumba$$, you're going on my ignore list too. You're just entirely too dense to waste any more of my time on.

On all that other proselytizing about "Where in the Constitution does it say it provides for... and you list off various Social Programs".

You're right... it doesn't! It did allow for slavery though.

And that was changed by the 13th Amendment. See, the government CAN work, according to the Constitution when it wants to, but it's so much easier for them to just ignore it and do what they want to do, regardless of what the Constitution says. But then again, what do you expect from a bunch of Libtards?

So I'm thinking.... probably not a perfect document. Going out on a limb here and saying it's reasonable to believe times maybe might change over hundreds of years. That could just be my open minded Liberal brain falling out on the table but call me crazy... I don't think slavery was really a great thing. As things evolve we learn... and we try to do better. That's what Americans have always done.[/COLOR]

First off, you haven't demonstrated that you have a brain. Secondly, the Constitution provides specific instructions on how to change it, and as those instructions have been followed 16 times since 1789, we know that it can be done, so what is so hard about following those rules today? Oh, that's right, Libtards don't have to follow the rules, they just do what they want to because they're "special", just like Jerry's Kids.

Oh well, it's been real, and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun, so I'll be NOT seeing you any time soon. Bye bye.

 

[top gun]

Federal Farmer;50068]You've earned them.

Ditto!

I challenge you to show me ANYWHERE that I've said fags shouldn't be allowed to get "married". Come on, show me ANYWHERE that I've said that fags should not be allowed to get married. Oh, that's right, you CAN'T, which means that you've lied about me too. You lie about FoxNews, you lie about McCain, you lie about Obama, you lie about everything.

First off "Fags"... nice way to go. Furthermore this is your post.

Federal Farmer: Perhaps you would care to show me where in the Constitution it guarantees anyone the "right" to marry? Marriage is not a governmental institution, it's a personal one, so if they want to live together, they can, that is their right. If they can find a preacher to perform the ceremony, then they're married, whether or not their State or the Federal Government recognizes it.

So you're not "against" gay marriage you just don't care if it's recognized or not... but if it isn't recognized then it isn't a legal marriage. You do realize that everyone sees that Hokey Pokey dance is a dodge right? You put your left foot in you take your left foot out... good...

OK dumba$$, you're going on my ignore list too. You're just entirely too dense to waste any more of my time on.

Nice... I especially like the way you put the dollar signs in dumba$$. Brilliant!

And that was changed by the 13th Amendment.

There ya go. See we both see slavery was wrong and it was changed.

So I would continue to say that since the Constitution doesn't provide any guidance at all over who can or cannot be married... and with adult marriage all participants are of legal age... it would seem to be only some forced "religious" mindset that would somehow disallow it... not anything Constitutional.

Maybe you could show me the Constitutional grounds that you think makes gay marriage illegal.

First off, you haven't demonstrated that you have a brain. Secondly, the Constitution provides specific instructions on how to change it...

Change what... it doesn't address it.

Oh well, it's been real, and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun, so I'll be NOT seeing you any time soon. Bye bye.

Works for me...

 

[Sihouette]

I've had a little experience with law and know that precedence allows that if the institution of marriage is allowed based on one partner loving another, then the sky is the limit for that description.

I haven't read the language of the California law just yet, but I'm going to assume they covered that base by being very specific that marriage may only occur between two human consenting adults.

Otherwise, you know how crazy people can run with loose language like "two partners loving each other". We've heard talk of how some people think the next step would be someone marrying their dog or a man marrying his favorite underaged boy-toy...and so on.

I think it's very very helpful when considering what "love" is, to totally eliminate any sexual ties to that word whatsoever. Sex has to be considered as the ultimate result of marriage however; so first the adult people have to be in love and second, assumed to be desiring sex together.

Though what this has to do with the 4th of July I can't begin to imagine?

 

[bododie]

Or maybe they pull the wings off baby birds or something?

LOL. Sooo good with Ranch dressing.
So what are you saying, that it's unpatriotic to dislike tacos and the mess they make?
Damn those neocons, and whatever other insipid name that the omnicient like to call those they decide aren't "liberal". By liberal I mean those who pride themselves on acceptance.

 

[GenSeneca]

By liberal I mean those who pride themselves on acceptance.

*Acceptance and Tolerance of everything that isn't Conservative or Christian.

-------------

Guessing I'm not the only person that went to a grill out today.... So I hung out with a buncha Libs thats I've known for years, wonderful people. Totally wrong politically, but their hearts are in the right place.

As they have gotten older, start having kids and owning property, their politics have moved towards Conservatism.... Strange how responsibility has that affect on people.