Vietnam Redux

[GenSeneca]

No offense, but are you always this silly?? It is one thing to criticize a nation........any nation.........but the pattern here seems to be bash the poster. Tsk Tsk. That must be because the US is deserving of a lot of criticism now.........and it is the "patriots" that live in fantasy world about how wonderful their nation is. Meanwhile the US continues to provoke , antagonize other nations as if THAT is the US policy.

Seems that there is a continuous recurring destructive pattern in the US conduct. Now, if THAT makes its population 'proud" of their dwelling, so be it. But along the way , it is creating a lot of victims , most of which are innocents and do NOT deserve to die or be maimed , or dislocated from THEIR country. The US is the AGGRESSOR not the victim, but to listen to it whine....... one would almost consider it was the other way around. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of them all the time. Still, the USG is doing a fairly good job of keeping its pop in the dark.........by feeding them continuous manure.


Vietnam Redux?? Possible to probable. and it is apparent the US cannot help itself. Habitual aggressor.????

Thats the Shadi I know! Nice to see you climb out of the Shadow....

 

[BigRob]

No offense, but are you always this silly?? It is one thing to criticize a nation........any nation.........but the pattern here seems to be bash the poster. Tsk Tsk. That must be because the US is deserving of a lot of criticism now.........and it is the "patriots" that live in fantasy world about how wonderful their nation is. Meanwhile the US continues to provoke , antagonize other nations as if THAT is the US policy.

Seems that there is a continuous recurring destructive pattern in the US conduct. Now, if THAT makes its population 'proud" of their dwelling, so be it. But along the way , it is creating a lot of victims , most of which are innocents and do NOT deserve to die or be maimed , or dislocated from THEIR country. The US is the AGGRESSOR not the victim, but to listen to it whine....... one would almost consider it was the other way around. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of them all the time. Still, the USG is doing a fairly good job of keeping its pop in the dark.........by feeding them continuous manure.


Vietnam Redux?? Possible to probable. and it is apparent the US cannot help itself. Habitual aggressor.????

So empty rhetoric and no evidence of orders coming down to enact Mai-Lai type incidents in Iraq?

 

[palerider]

sounds like another lame excuse .... but just let another nation do what the US has done , in the INHUMANITARIAN arena and then listen to the US holler in indignation. The hypocrisy stinks so bad....... that those submerged in it know no other stench. and have become sensitized to it.

You seem to be unable to grasp the difference between the actions of a few INDIVIDUALS who are out of control and actions sanctioned by a nation. Get that little detail fixed firmly in your mind and the whole picture will become clear.

Can you name a country in which none of its servicemen have ever stepped outside of the rules of engagement and done things in a war that their country did not approve?

 

[foggedinn]

Law is the first casualty of war.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Law is the first casualty of war.

No, humanity goes long before law does my friend, because you can't be very "humane" while you're running around WOUNDING, MAIMING, AND KILLING other human beings, now can you?

Nope, I don't ever remember once them teaching us any "humane" ways of killing and maiming our enemies, only the most efficient and brutal ones. Whether it be by shooting them, or running a bayonet into their GUTS, and leaving them screaming on the ground to die from infection, or dropping bombs and napalm on 'em, the purpose of the United States military is now, and always has been, to KILL as many of our enemies, and break as much of their stuff, as quickly as possible, and in an orderly, efficient, proficient military manner.

Law? That's a bunch of crap, dreamed up by a bunch of lawyers, to guarantee that they can get their greedy hands into the pie, even thought they're too GUTLESS to actually pick up a weapon and join the REAL Soldiers. If you ever REALLY want to see an end to war, let the military make it as absolutely brutal and heinous as possible, that way NOBODY will want to 'play' that game, EVER!

 

[Shadow]

Law is the first casualty of war.

all the more reason NOT to start any wars. War has never been the "solution" to anything, and never will be. It might thin a population down, and reconfigure territorial control...... but such inhumanity as war is committed by BARBARIANS only. (be they americans or africans ) Barbarians have not yet evolved to using other coping strategies with other nations or issues that arise between them. It is also rather retarded to make blanket statements about "not negotiating" with a group of people or a nation. That kind of limited thought (???) process is not conducive to achieving proper justice where needed .


Without LAW....... little wonder these last two american horrors have been such a disaster. The Iraq invasion was illegal and unethical from the onset. ( oh yes, some will argue grey areas to defend WAR ......but they will argue FOR WAR , no matter the circumstances.

Those that love wars so much.......might do some serious self examination & reflection about their REAL motives behind such barbarism. Do they feel empowered ,?? is it for their EGO??? CONTROL?? Does such aggression make them feel "superior"???? Do they realize that it has the opposite effect and they just lower themselves to that bottom feeder level where laws no longer matter and slaughter of human beings is part of a days' work.

 

[Libsmasher]

all the more reason NOT to start any wars. War has never been the "solution" to anything, and never will be.

Pure nonsense. In fact ALL the big issues of the 20th century were solved by war.

 

[Phoenix68]

War crimes on all sides are a feature of every war. Eg, two american war crime incidents in WWII (from wiki):

Dachau war crimes:

Malmedy war crimes:

So that makes it ok? If we're such a moral country, war crimes are something that shouldn't be part of our record...at anytime anywhere.

Everybody old enough remembers clearly the outright massacre of 504 women, children and old men at My Lai during the Vietnam war.

“Let us learn our lessons. Never, never, never believe any War will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter.

The Statesman who yields to War Fever must realize that – once the signal is given – he is no longer the Master Of Policy but the Slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. Antiquated War offices, weak, incompetent, or arrogant commanders, untrustworthy allies, hostile neutrals, malignant fortune, ugly surprises, awful miscalculations – ALL take their seats at the council board on the morrow of a declaration of War.

Always remember, however sure you are that you can easily win, that there would not BE a War, if the other man did not think HE also had a chance.” – Winston Churchill

 

[Phoenix68]

Vietnam Redux​

"...In March or April 2007, three noncommissioned United States Army officers, including a first sergeant, a platoon sergeant and a senior medic, killed four Iraqi prisoners with pistol shots to the head as the men stood handcuffed and blindfolded beside a Baghdad canal, two of the soldiers said in sworn statements.

After the killings, the first sergeant — the senior noncommissioned officer of his Army company — told the other two to remove the men’s bloody blindfolds and plastic handcuffs, according to the statements made to Army investigators, which were obtained by The New York Times.

The statements and other court documents were provided by a person close to one of the soldiers in the unit who insisted on anonymity and who has an interest in the outcome of the legal proceedings.

After removing the blindfolds and handcuffs, the three soldiers shoved the four bodies into the canal, rejoined other members of their unit waiting in nearby vehicles and drove back to their combat outpost in southwest Baghdad, the statements said.

more at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/w...ssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

Comrade Stalin of Gori

Stalin - whats the purpose of this post?

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To prove how little he knows about 'Nam????
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[Phoenix68]

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"Ho Chi Minh met with the U.S. operative, Major Patti, and they agreed on joint anti-Japanese actions. The U.S. dropped supplies behind the lines to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh helped Americans downed behind Japanese lines. The first American advisors helped train, equip and arm the Viet Minh. In 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was formed with Ho Chi Minh as the first President. American planes flew over Hanoi in celebration of the founding. The Vietnamese Declaration of Independence echoed that of the U.S.: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. Understood in the broader sense this means: All people on earth are born equal. Every person has the right to live, to be happy, and free."

Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to honor their commitment to independence, citing the Atlantic Charter and the U.N. Charter on self-determination. However, by the end of the war, the U.S. government had begun to redirect its foreign policy from the wartime goal of the liberation of all occupied countries and colonies to the postwar anti-communist crusade, which became the Cold War. In France, where communists had led the resistance to the Nazi occupation, American policy supported General Charles de Gaulle and his anti-communist "Free French." De Gaulle aimed to restore the glory of France, which meant the return of all former French colonies. U.S. relations with the Vietnamese turned sour. President Truman refused to answer letters or cables from Ho. Instead, the U.S. began to ship military aid to the French forces in Indochina."

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[mark francis]

"...In March or April 2007, three noncommissioned United States Army officers, including a first sergeant, a platoon sergeant and a senior medic, killed four Iraqi prisoners with pistol shots to the head as the men stood handcuffed and blindfolded beside a Baghdad canal, two of the soldiers said in sworn statements.

After the killings, the first sergeant — the senior noncommissioned officer of his Army company — told the other two to remove the men’s bloody blindfolds and plastic handcuffs, according to the statements made to Army investigators, which were obtained by The New York Times.

The statements and other court documents were provided by a person close to one of the soldiers in the unit who insisted on anonymity and who has an interest in the outcome of the legal proceedings.

After removing the blindfolds and handcuffs, the three soldiers shoved the four bodies into the canal, rejoined other members of their unit waiting in nearby vehicles and drove back to their combat outpost in southwest Baghdad, the statements said.

more at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/w...ssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

Comrade Stalin of Gori

Soldiers have been committing atrocities for thousands of years. Just because both sides may be committing heinous war crimes does not justify war crimes.

Enemies of the Jews claimed Jews committed atrocities against Germans and should therefore be exterminated. Enemies of America claim Americans committed crimes against every nation it went to war against and should be forced to repent of its atrocities and pay restitution damages to them for the crimes. Never mind the crimes committed by the whining enemies of America who see nothing wrong with their misguided hatred of Americans for the abuses that Americans as a nation never committed nor condoned.

Transcript: Kerry Testifies Before Senate Panel, 1971 : NPR

Senator Aiken: Do you think we are under obligation to furnish them with extensive economic assistance?

Mr. Kerry: Yes, sir. I think we have a very definite obligation to make extensive reparations to the people of Indochina.

 

[Phoenix68]

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"Ho Chi Minh met with the U.S. operative, Major Patti, and they agreed on joint anti-Japanese actions. The U.S. dropped supplies behind the lines to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh helped Americans downed behind Japanese lines. The first American advisors helped train, equip and arm the Viet Minh. In 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was formed with Ho Chi Minh as the first President. American planes flew over Hanoi in celebration of the founding. The Vietnamese Declaration of Independence echoed that of the U.S.: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. Understood in the broader sense this means: All people on earth are born equal. Every person has the right to live, to be happy, and free."

Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to honor their commitment to independence, citing the Atlantic Charter and the U.N. Charter on self-determination. However, by the end of the war, the U.S. government had begun to redirect its foreign policy from the wartime goal of the liberation of all occupied countries and colonies to the postwar anti-communist crusade, which became the Cold War. In France, where communists had led the resistance to the Nazi occupation, American policy supported General Charles de Gaulle and his anti-communist "Free French." De Gaulle aimed to restore the glory of France, which meant the return of all former French colonies. U.S. relations with the Vietnamese turned sour. President Truman refused to answer letters or cables from Ho. Instead, the U.S. began to ship military aid to the French forces in Indochina."

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[pjmret]

Soldiers have been committing atrocities for thousands of years. Just because both sides may be committing heinous war crimes does not justify war crimes.

Enemies of the Jews claimed Jews committed atrocities against Germans and should therefore be exterminated. Enemies of America claim Americans committed crimes against every nation it went to war against and should be forced to repent of its atrocities and pay restitution damages to them for the crimes. Never mind the crimes committed by the whining enemies of America who see nothing wrong with their misguided hatred of Americans for the abuses that Americans as a nation never committed nor condoned.

Transcript: Kerry Testifies Before Senate Panel, 1971 : NPR

Senator Aiken: Do you think we are under obligation to furnish them with extensive economic assistance?

Mr. Kerry: Yes, sir. I think we have a very definite obligation to make extensive reparations to the people of Indochina.

we had no justification for our involvement in vietnam as we did and the deaths we directly caused, so the reparations concept is a reasonable one.

 

[mark francis]

we had no justification for our involvement in vietnam as we did and the deaths we directly caused, so the reparations concept is a reasonable one.

War protesters and draft dodgers claimed the US had no business fighting for the threatened people of South Vietnam, but flaming radical leftists are prone to very bad opinions and judgment.

 

[pjmret]

War protesters and draft dodgers claimed the US had no business fighting for the threatened people of South Vietnam, but flaming radical leftists are prone to very bad opinions and judgment.

and you are a ***** lol.

the south vietnam government was corrupt, we intervened because of the "domino effect", not because they were a threat to us, and we ended up killing a lot of women and children, sadly, all because of our "better dead than red" theory.

For example, Guenter Lewy estimated that around 220,000 civilians in South Vietnam were killed in US, Army of the Republic of Vietnam and other allied land operations. In another study, Benjamin Valentino attributes 110,000-310,000 “counter guerrilla mass killings” to U.S. and South Vietnamese forces during the war. Estimates for the number of North Vietnamese civilian deaths resulting from US bombing range from 30,000-65,000, while higher estimates place the number of civilian deaths caused by American bombing of North Vietnam in Operation Rolling Thunder at 182,000.


leave it to our local fake christian not to care about these deaths but rather to whine about "leftists". you are a sad pathetic human.