Unsustainable Debt

[Pidgey]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/14/pf/taxes/_federal_tax_revenue/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[Dr.Who]

I just think that we should follow the typical capitalist model and apply it to politicians as well. The more money you offer, the better qualified applicants you get.

A typical capitalist model would also mean that they don't get to determine their own salaries and that they don't have unlimited resources when it comes to spending. That would create a balance between their salaries and the taxes collected from taxpayers.

 

[BigRob]

A typical capitalist model would also mean that they don't get to determine their own salaries and that they don't have unlimited resources when it comes to spending. That would create a balance between their salaries and the taxes collected from taxpayers.

If we paid them more money we might get some people in there who knew how to balance a budget, like corporate employees are able to do.

Further, they really do not get to determine their own salaries. Every "raise" that they give themselves does not take effect until the following term. If the voter had a big issue with it they could vote them out of office. There is a system in place to carry this out, it is not their fault if voters chose not to use it.

On top of all of this, Congressional salaries are not what is breaking the budget exactly.

 

[BigRob]

No matter how much money we the taxpayer offer in payment, the special interest groups and corporations can offer far, far more... we just cannot compete with that.

You do not have to "compete" with it. A corporation does not have a vote, people do. I am not sure how this relates to the topic of Congressional salaries either, will you clarify it?

Notice that a politician can get elected with a net worth of zero... get paid $100,000 a year for 2-6 years but at the end of their first term walk out of Congress a millionaire.

In some cases, there are also cases of lifelong politicians who are broke. Biden for example barely had any money after years as a Senator. I also do not think you can count campaign contributions as net worth.

Overall I really do not think politician salaries are that big of a deal, and raising them might at least entice more qualified people to get involved.

 

[GenSeneca]

On top of all of this, Congressional salaries are not what is breaking the budget exactly.

Serve just one term and you get congressional perks for the rest of your life... that gets expensive.

As for the "Just vote them out" garbage.... Congress was at a 9% approval rating yet 92% of those in office kept their jobs... Its always someone elses congressman who's causing problems and should be removed, its never your own guy.

How's this... They get $1 a year, same as the employees of private companies taxpayer money is now supporting, with the possiblility of earning millions in bonuses if they manage to bring spending under control and begin reversing the debt.

 

[BigRob]

Serve just one term and you get congressional perks for the rest of your life... that gets expensive.

Perks like what?

As for the "Just vote them out" garbage.... Congress was at a 9% approval rating yet 92% of those in office kept their jobs... Its always someone elses congressman who's causing problems and should be removed, its never your own guy.

Well, that would seem to show that Congressional approval ratings are meaningless. If people do not vote them out, then that is the way it is.

How's this... They get $1 a year, same as the employees of private companies taxpayer money is now supporting, with the possiblility of earning millions in bonuses if they manage to bring spending under control and begin reversing the debt.

That would apply more to the President, since most of the bailouts are coming by way of Executive Order and going around Congressional approval. I think some of Congress (and only some) is getting a bad rap with all of this.

 

[GenSeneca]

Perks like what?

Normal Americans, not in the ruling class, have to work 30 or so years to get a decent retirement package. Not true with politicians. They get a cushy retirement package, complete with healthcare, for the rest of their life after leaving office.

 

[BigRob]

Normal Americans, not in the ruling class, have to work 30 or so years to get a decent retirement package. Not true with politicians. They get a cushy retirement package, complete with healthcare, for the rest of their life after leaving office.

They do not really get all that cushy of a retirement package. Members of Congress are not able to receive a pension until they reach the age of 50 and only then if they have served 20 years. They are able to begin collecting a pension at 62 regardless, or at any age if they have served 25 years. (which makes 50 being the absolute youngest again)

If they do not serve at least 5 years, they are not able to draw a pension of any kind. As for their healthcare, they simply get the same plan that is offered to all Federal government employees. According to government numbers from 2006 (CRS), the average pension for the members of Congress is $35,952. I would not call that "lavish" but that is just my opinion.

 

[Pandora]

They do not really get all that cushy of a retirement package. Members of Congress are not able to receive a pension until they reach the age of 50 and only then if they have served 20 years. They are able to begin collecting a pension at 62 regardless, or at any age if they have served 25 years. (which makes 50 being the absolute youngest again)

If they do not serve at least 5 years, they are not able to draw a pension of any kind. As for their healthcare, they simply get the same plan that is offered to all Federal government employees. According to government numbers from 2006 (CRS), the average pension for the members of Congress is $35,952. I would not call that "lavish" but that is just my opinion.

Wow really

I have heard the same stuff Gen talked about but never personally researched it.

 

[GenSeneca]

If they do not serve at least 5 years, they are not able to draw a pension of any kind.

Senators serve for 6 years... that's one term. Representatives serve 2 years at a stretch and both have a 90+% chance of being re-elected if they get in office.

How much of a pension can a senator get, at age 50, after serving just one term?

As for their healthcare, they simply get the same plan that is offered to all Federal government employees.

Is that plan subsidized by taxpayers or not? If so, by how much?

How would you compare their plan to the typical plan offered in the private sector; better or worse?

According to government numbers from 2006 (CRS), the average pension for the members of Congress is $35,952. I would not call that "lavish" but that is just my opinion.

The average income for working Americans is less than $50K, so the average can be quite misleading.... What is the "mean" pension of retired Congressmen?

 

[BigRob]

Senators serve for 6 years... that's one term. Representatives serve 2 years at a stretch and both have a 90+% chance of being re-elected if they get in office.

How much of a pension can a senator get, at age 50, after serving just one term?

Well it will vary based on individual circumstances, but generally a 1 term Senator could draw in the ballpark of $15,000-$16,000 as a pension after serving one term. They only are able to receive this after turning 62 however.

Is that plan subsidized by taxpayers or not? If so, by how much?

It varies, the rates can be found here. I think the plan will cover most major medical and you will have a $15-$25 dollar co-pay for doctor visits, and as I understand it you do not get prescriptions covered, at least in most cases.

How would you compare their plan to the typical plan offered in the private sector; better or worse?

I think it depends, but the federal health insurance that federal employees get is good coverage, as is the coverage you get if you work for someone like Chevron.

The average income for working Americans is less than $50K, so the average can be quite misleading.... What is the "mean" pension of retired Congressmen?

I do not know. I have not seen a list with every member currently taking a pension, the only number I had to go on was the CRS one.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

WHAT DOES this pension of retired Congressmen have to do with the REAL problems at hand? - what a waist of time!​

You are filling your mind with gum drops while the store is being robbed!​

The pension of retired Congressmen is a smoke screen - JUST A SMOKE SCREEN to keep nibble minds preoccupied - while everyone is yakking up this topic political damage to the basis of freedom is being set in stone and NO SOLUTIONS are being discussed.

So many of you are barely aware of the depths of what is transpiring and then there are those of you leading the sheeple with fascinating topics guiding them around to avoid the real issues which are permanently destroying the fabric of what was originally founded in this once free nation.

.... and most everyone is fine with the changes for the sake of JUST US ...

It's a putrid reality and that stench is the smell of treason - aren't you proud? ... or don't you FULLY understand it?​

 

[GenSeneca]

WHAT DOES this pension of retired Congressmen have to do with the REAL problems at hand? - what a waist of time!

Your gonna blow a gasket...

The real problem is the Welfare state. Good luck telling these teet suckers that they should be self reliant and not expect government to cater to their every whim. Its come down to mob rule and what the mob wants is other peoples property. While that would be called theft in the private sector, when government does it, its called compassion and fairness.

What you have to do is convince people to stop being covetous of what others have. You have to find a way to break the entitlement mentality that's so prevalent in today's society if you ever want a return to sanity.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

Your gonna blow a gasket...

The real problem is the Welfare state. Good luck telling these teet suckers that they should be self reliant and not expect government to cater to their every whim. Its come down to mob rule and what the mob wants is other peoples property. While that would be called theft in the private sector, when government does it, its called compassion and fairness.

What you have to do is convince people to stop being covetous of what others have. You have to find a way to break the entitlement mentality that's so prevalent in today's society if you ever want a return to sanity.

WOW! This post just made you a lesser god in my eyes!

LOL - let me play with this post!

What you said is so correct in so many ways that you are the first person I have ever heard that could understand what I see and think!​

......... be aware this is going to be what I hate ... a LONG WINDED POST!​

In order to understand the problem we need to look at the root - RELIGION!

When Christianity went off track our nation was flushed down the commode!

The real problem is the Welfare state.

This is directly linked to the churches of today supplementing Biblical values with their own goals and objectives.

This is the first basic teet: Food Banks and Soup Kitchens.
Let me state for the record that I am not a Christian
with anything more than respect and due admiration toward the values and strict code of moral behavior which the Bible teaches.

They claim that the Bible said to feed the hungry and that is as far as they went.​

They totally failed to grasp the fact that people were instructed to walk away from those who chose to walk in a manor less that acceptable.

... this angered the godless so the Christian altered the meaning to apply to the angry mob's. which have consistently attacked them ever since.​

What were the values which took the true Biblical teaching off track?

Here are a few drips in the barrel:

1. 2Th 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day ...
   
   this was to help people keep their own honor and dignity in tact.
   Back in the day WPA (the government work project) was a humiliating place to work because people were forced to accept the handout of a government job ... then along came President Johnson and the full flair of Johnson-ism which made a government job a good thing and welfare became the next level of shame to over come.​
2. Lev 19:10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and the stranger.
   
   See? According to the Bible the poor were STILL required to WORK AT GETTING THE FOOD THEY NEEDED - it was not given to them in bags and boxes as it is from a food bank.

   What I fail to understand is why aren't these so called CHRISTIAN food pantries extending their Christian hand to those who REALLY need and deserve the help? Why aren't these healthy receivers of FREE AND UNEARNED FOOD being put to work to help the aged and invalid people maintain their homes? Weed gardens, paint a porch, wash a kitchen floor, or carry the laundry up from the basement is too beneath those in need?​
3. Ecc 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of his labour, it is the gift of God.

The honor and dignity of man has been removed so what are they good for?

A sex toy who doesn't even have the right to protect that which he has been involved in creating ...

trust me when I say this post is 2 seconds of decades of thought ...
MOST of you will NEVER fathom the depth of what my belief structure is about and just how committed I am toward STOPPING
this social stupidity that have spawned for the sick and useless liberal values that are killing this world off.​

 

[Phoenix68]

take Bush from where he started, and then ended in 8 years, then look at where Bush ended it at, to 8 years by white house est , and the plus - for change is actuly in favor or Obama after 8 years...Bush got to go in with a good econ...Obama get left with a econ no president has had to deal with anything like in many many years...

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Stop with the under lying comparisons to the "Great Depression." I have Grandparents that were alive during the Depression, and they scoff at the idea that this is even close. Is it inconvenient for some? Yes.........But it is not hardly the Great Depression!

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Causes Of The Great Recession
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See: 4:40 thru 12:00
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