This place is suddenly flooded ....

[GenSeneca]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind. First we would have had a more honest rational truthful evaluation of the real situation so we wouldn't even be in theater... certainly not as occupiers.

Why would they be honest and rational about war when they have no honesty or rationality in domestic issues?

Could there have been some misconduct by some individuals like at Abu Ghraib if we were... sure. But heads would have rolled over things like organized torture. Unlike deny... then cover up... and then try to debate that sometimes torture isn't torture.

Do you have any PROOF of organized torture sanctioned by the Administration?

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

That's just ridiculous on it's face (surprise)!

Are you seriously making the case that we weren't waterboarding etc.?

No, what I am making the case that you have slandered the entire Armed Forces of the United States by accusing them of using, AND I QUOTE AGAIN, "terrorist techniques" in Iraq, an accusation that you have not, and CANNOT defend. YOU have slandered them, and as they are not here to defend themselves, I have taken it upon myself as a Veteran to stand to and defend them in their stead.

YOU issued the slander, YOU defend it or apologize.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

You're delusional... and an a$$ to say that.

I love our kids over the there. One of them is a lifer and my God Son out of Fort Campbell. We have the best young men & women in the world serving in our military forces. And they do what they are told and they do one Hell of a great job!

It's not the troops that were the problem. It was this lying Republican administration. Sometimes there is collateral damage in war and that can't always be avoided. But lying us into war in the first place is never acceptable nor is torture once we've taken prisoners into custody.

And it's un-American to think that it is.

Yet in your previous post, you accused him of using "terrorist techniques"!

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

That's just ridiculous on it's face (surprise)!

Are you seriously making the case that we weren't waterboarding etc.?

I never said we weren't waterboarding, I'm saying, FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, that waterboarding IS NOT TORTURE.

As for the rest of your delusional post, you've lied so much, in so many posts, about so many things, that I don't believe anything you have to say about anything. You couldn't join because of an automobile accident? Another lie. You hid out in college to avoid the draft, and like the rest of the cowards, you used any excuse you could come up with to avoid doing your duty.

YOU are totally invested in defeat and you obviously hate our military, you OWN it, admit it. Oh, and before you even think about replying, don't forget that it was YOU who accused them of using "terrorist techniques", which is a blatant LIE.

 

[Sihouette]

"This place is suddenly flooded with leftwing whackos"~ Libsmasher

True. Nature does seek balance.

Gotcha!

 

[PLC1]

I have ALL of the valid arguments, all you libs have is slander, lies, and defamation of character against the very people who provide you with the freedoms you enjoy.

You're the one who was engaging in childish name calling, not the other side. I'll ignore the term "lib", as I said when outlining my political philosophy that there would be those with simplistic left-right viewpoints who would call me a liberal.

I'm OK with it, as it has no meaning in the real world anyway.

McCain suddenly took the position that it was "torture" in order to attempt to garner some votes from you wimps.

Oh, now McCain and I are "wimps"? I'm a wimp for opposing the war? I opposed the last inadvisable and disastrous war the US engaged in, also. It wasn't a popular position, but we turned out to be right in the long run, as Vietnam is not a part of any "Communist block", the nations of SE Asia didn't fall to a domino theory, and the world didn't end when we lost that war that never should have been. Sometimes it takes a pair to stand up and say, “Hey, the emperor has no clothes! That war is wrong, the commander is wrong, and we need to change what we're doing." It's a lot easier to simply mouth the talking points of the administration, or simply ignore what is going on.

And McCain, who was shot down, imprisoned, and tortured for trying to serve his country in that disastrous and inadvisable war is a wimp also, or at least is pandering to "wimps"? That is an insult to a war hero who has spent a lifetime serving this country.

Are you a closet supporter of Obama?

If water boarding really were "torture" it would be ILLEGAL for us to do it to our troops as part of their training. I have been water boarded when i went through AF survival school, have YOU?

It must be legal since it isn't torture, and it isn't torture since it is legal.

Typical circular reasoning.

And, you are still ignoring the well established fact that a lot more went on than weatherboarding of a handful of the worst terrorists.

Oh, and BTW, you're the one who has lost, because you don't have a single fact to rely on, or you would have presented them already.

I've presented them, many times on this forum. It's a lot easier to ignore facts and logic and simply continue to believe what you want to believe.

But, one more time, here are some for you to ignore or simply say that they aren't true:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/mar2008/dark-m24.shtml

And one more.

Captives at Guantánamo Bay were chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor for 18 hours or more, urinating and defecating on themselves, an FBI report has revealed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/03/guantanamo.usa

But, of course, the above and a lot more have already been posted. Maybe you missed it.

They're not? Then where are they? The last time I checked, they were all at Club Gitmo, do you have evidence to the contrary?

Except for the ones who are dead or who have been released, yes, they're still at Gitmo.

If you find my language to be insulting, that's not my problem, it's YOURS.

No, it isn't a problem at all from my perspective, as it shows beyond a reasonable doubt that you have no real argument. Insulting those who disagree with you is not an argument, but it says volumes about the speaker.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

So what this all boils down to in your obviously limited intellect is the fact that a VERY limited number of individuals, operating well outside the S.O.P. for interrogations justifies slandering the ENTIRE United States Armed Forces with the canard of "using terrorist techniques"? Using that utterly insane excuse for logic, the entire population of the United States are MURDERERS because of the actions of the few who HAVE committed murder. Also, you have still failed to address the very salient facts of this discussion, that being that the terrorists don't use anything nearly as MILD as chaining someone to the ceiling, or keeping them up for 18 hours. I suppose all the times I was required to be up continually for more than 96 hours counts as "torture" in your book too?

Please. You and a few others around here are in despirate need of having your "headspace and timing" adjusted before you attempt to shoot off your mouths.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So what this all boils down to in your obviously limited intellect is the fact that a VERY limited number of individuals, operating well outside the S.O.P. for interrogations justifies slandering the ENTIRE United States Armed Forces with the canard of "using terrorist techniques"?

I'd say the larger-problem is Corporate Amerika's Killer Elite.

 

[PLC1]

So what this all boils down to in your obviously limited intellect is the fact that a VERY limited number of individuals, operating well outside the S.O.P. for interrogations justifies slandering the ENTIRE United States Armed Forces with the canard of "using terrorist techniques"? Using that utterly insane excuse for logic, the entire population of the United States are MURDERERS because of the actions of the few who HAVE committed murder. Also, you have still failed to address the very salient facts of this discussion, that being that the terrorists don't use anything nearly as MILD as chaining someone to the ceiling, or keeping them up for 18 hours. I suppose all the times I was required to be up continually for more than 96 hours counts as "torture" in your book too?

Please. You and a few others around here are in despirate need of having your "headspace and timing" adjusted before you attempt to shoot off your mouths.

Was that supposed to have been a response to my post in some way?

We all know that the terrorists use torture. The point is that we're supposed to be fighting cockroaches, not becoming cockroaches ourselves. Torture is not acceptable, nor is it likely to further the war on terror.

Not that it really matters. Neither of the candidates currently running for POTUS supports torture, so that is likely to become simply a dark page in the history of this war.

 

[The Scotsman]

I'll lock this for a while whilst you all cool off!