The forced starvation diet of Palestinians

Because before 1967, there were no people calling themselves Palestinians. Palestinians are the people that were displaced by Arab armies attacking Israel. After the war Arab nations shut their doors to refugees, and said "You are Israel's problem now." To quote Walid Shoebat-
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian? We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag. When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out.”

You're not quite right. "Palestine" existed as a British mandate from 1920 until 1948. Prior to that the region had literally hundreds of names - "Palestine" was an attempt to give it a lasting name and identity - and you can see how well that turned out.
 
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ok thats just stupid. Who cares what they called themselves. Not that your right that they never called themselves that.

But who friggin cares.

That really is the heart of it. They call themselves "Palestinians" because the vision of Palestine was their first shot at self-governing. It was there first shot at being able to set up a government the way they wanted it set up. It's about an idea - not lines on a map, which have never mattered much in the Middle East anyway because they change so damn often.
 
And in the end, the Palestinians suffer. Im serious when I say I don't understand everyones reluctance to at least show some sort of compassion to the Pals.

Its not their fault all these arab and israeli assholes were too busy worrying about god and looking for a fight.

But at the same time theres a big rant on this forum about how you hate all Muslims, mainly it seems to be down to this 'Thursday ****fest' fantasy and their personal hygeine in poor countries.
 
That really is the heart of it. They call themselves "Palestinians" because the vision of Palestine was their first shot at self-governing. It was there first shot at being able to set up a government the way they wanted it set up. It's about an idea - not lines on a map, which have never mattered much in the Middle East anyway because they change so damn often.

They were given the chance at self-governance in Jordan. The Arabs were given their land, and the Jews were given seperate land, and it would have been find if Arabs could accept the fact that of a Jewish state in Muslim holy land. I was really just referring to the people that call themselves Palestinians today. As of June 4 1967, there were no Palestinians. 70% of the Arab inhabitants of the area left when Israel was created because of the promise made by Arab nations to remove the Jews from their land. The rest were simply living peacefully in Israel and enjoyed more rights there than were given in the Arab world. The point I'm trying to make is that every "Palestinian" at one point was something else. Even Yasser Arafat was born as an Egyptian. What gives them the right to wake up one morning and decide that they are now Palestinians, and as Palestinians, all of a sudden have the right to claim this land as their own?
 
And in the end, the Palestinians suffer. Im serious when I say I don't understand everyones reluctance to at least show some sort of compassion to the Pals.

Its not their fault all these arab and israeli assholes were too busy worrying about god and looking for a fight.

The palestinians have a homeland and it consists of over 70% of the palestinian mandate which today is known as Israel and Jordan. Their "homeland" is jordan but they are denied access and yet, they do not complain.
 
I'm sure they do complain, especially those who actually lost land, but Israel gets more coverage, and therefore more hatred is stirred up.
 
Israel should go back to their 1967 borders, dismantle all the illegal settlements and return confiscated lands. It's that simple. They have no right to it. They provoked the 1967 war in order to take the Golan Heights - some of the best farm land in the area. I'm not saying the arabs are blameless either - both they and Israel have used and abused the Palestinians. There is a lot of blame to lay around but it's about time Israel starts excepting some responsibility here and it's about time that we quit calling anyone who critisizes Israel's actions a "jew hater" or anti-semitic.
 
The palestinians have a homeland and it consists of over 70% of the palestinian mandate which today is known as Israel and Jordan. Their "homeland" is jordan but they are denied access and yet, they do not complain.

The Palestinians have a swiss cheese homland that is discontinuous and almost impossible to conduct trade, business or farming in without Israe'ls permissions.

Go back to the old borders.
 
Israel should go back to their 1967 borders, dismantle all the illegal settlements and return confiscated lands. It's that simple. They have no right to it. They provoked the 1967 war in order to take the Golan Heights - some of the best farm land in the area. I'm not saying the arabs are blameless either - both they and Israel have used and abused the Palestinians. There is a lot of blame to lay around but it's about time Israel starts excepting some responsibility here and it's about time that we quit calling anyone who critisizes Israel's actions a "jew hater" or anti-semitic.

That wouldn't be enough for the Muslim states. They won't stop until there is no Israel left. We can argue till the cows come home about why all this started and who is to blame for it, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no good way to solve this problem. The Palestinians want Palestine and the Israelis want Israel and they both want them in the same place; you can't divide the land between them because both sides have an "all-or-nothing" attitude. The Israelis are willing to let Palestinians live in Israel - by Israeli rules. The Palestinians were (not sure anymore) willing to let Israelis live in Palestine - under Palestinian rules. Neither wants to accept the other side's jurisdiction because of cultural and religious differences.

Basically we've got two pissed off bulls that have locked horns and are rolling around trying in vain to break each other's necks. All they're managing to do is crush all the little guys who are around them (ie civilians).

This is one issue that I think we just need to duck out of and leave be. There's no clear way to tell who "rightly deserves" the land as there have been Jews and Muslims (and, yes, those pesky Christians too) there for hundreds of years. The Jews certainly deserved to have their own state in the wake of World War II; the Muslims of the Palestinian mandate (who lived in the district of Palestine) also deserved their own state, promised to them by the British during World War I.

No matter how you swing it both sides have equally astute points. Do I sympathize with the Palestinians? Yes. They've been handed the short end of a stick in their own country. Is that stick as short as the one that was handed the Jews during the Holocaust? Not by a long shot. After the worst persecution at the head of a long line of prosecutions of their people the Jews deserved to get a little back and they got Israel. Do I sympathize with the Israelis? Yes. They're just trying to keep their people from winding up in the same position they were in 1934 when Hitler took over in Germany.

No one wins here.
 
That wouldn't be enough for the Muslim states. They won't stop until there is no Israel left.

I disagree. I think most of them have come to the realization that Israel is here to stay and would like some sort of fair peace. Syria is willing to negotiate a peace deal if it gets the Gollan Heights back.

We can argue till the cows come home about why all this started and who is to blame for it, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no good way to solve this problem. The Palestinians want Palestine and the Israelis want Israel and they both want them in the same place; you can't divide the land between them because both sides have an "all-or-nothing" attitude.

I agree - both sides have to make major concessions. Israel must return to it's 1967 borders and dismantle settlements- those are the legal borders of it's mandate. There can't be any "right of return" for the Palestinians. They'll just have realize that. It would destroy Israel as a Jewish state. Jeruselum will have to be a multi-national city. It can be done if the major powers - pariticularly the U.S. stops being so one sided and is seen to be hardline with both the Palestinians and Isreal. That has yet to happen. As it is right now the Arabs see Israel breaking UN resolutions right and left with no repercussions, they see Isreal continuing to build settlements on confiscated territory, and they see a nuclear armed (we just don't say it out loud) Isreal suffering no consequences while next door Iran is suffering sanctions and international condemnation for going in the same direction. Are the Arabs blameless? Of course not. They've been using the Palestinians shamefully for their own political purposes.

The Israelis are willing to let Palestinians live in Israel - by Israeli rules. The Palestinians were (not sure anymore) willing to let Israelis live in Palestine - under Palestinian rules. Neither wants to accept the other side's jurisdiction because of cultural and religious differences.

Palestinians are second class citizens in Israel. They regularly get stopped at roadblocks - even in emergency situations, trying to get to a hospital. Their lands are subject to confiscation/eminent domain - with little recourse to justice and poor compensation. If you're a Palestinian just try to get any sort of building permit or home improvement permit in Jeruselum - it won't be given. If you're an Israeli Jew - no problem. Israel regularly cross the border into Palestine to kidnap Palestinians - but what happens if the Palestinians react back? Those are some of the Israeli rules.


Basically we've got two pissed off bulls that have locked horns and are rolling around trying in vain to break each other's necks. All they're managing to do is crush all the little guys who are around them (ie civilians).

Ya, I agree.

This is one issue that I think we just need to duck out of and leave be. There's no clear way to tell who "rightly deserves" the land as there have been Jews and Muslims (and, yes, those pesky Christians too) there for hundreds of years. The Jews certainly deserved to have their own state in the wake of World War II; the Muslims of the Palestinian mandate (who lived in the district of Palestine) also deserved their own state, promised to them by the British during World War I.

No matter how you swing it both sides have equally astute points. Do I sympathize with the Palestinians? Yes. They've been handed the short end of a stick in their own country. Is that stick as short as the one that was handed the Jews during the Holocaust? Not by a long shot. After the worst persecution at the head of a long line of prosecutions of their people the Jews deserved to get a little back and they got Israel. Do I sympathize with the Israelis? Yes. They're just trying to keep their people from winding up in the same position they were in 1934 when Hitler took over in Germany.

No one wins here.

While I agree with much of what you say, there are a few realities here. It's time Israel quit using the holocast as it's excuse for excess. Israel is no David matched against the Arab juggernaut. Israel has one of the most modern and effective armies in the world - perhaps the best. Israel is not a third world country. Israel recieves a massive amount of financial aid from the US - in fact, it's the biggest single recipient. Compared to Israel - what are most of the Arab countries? A bunch of tinpot dictators.
 
I think that the concessions that both sides would require of the other would be too great to be accepted. I've struggled to see a way out of this mess that would be advantageous for everyone but I'm pretty sure that solution doesn't exist.
 
You know its funny, because everyone cares about the Jewish holocaust, but nobody ever makes a big deal out of all the other genocides and holocausts that have occured. Tell me exactly, why I should care more about the Jews than the American Indians for instance?

The cold hard fact here, is that the Holocaust is a One-Shot Exception; and Genocide DOES Pay. Everybody loves to talk about this particular case of genocide because it failed, or so we're told. The Germans paid a terrible price for what they did to the Jews. Nope; the Germans paid a terrible price for invading Russia. If they'd stuck to holding their half of Eurasia, Stalin would have continued his love affair with Hitler, the only human being he ever liked, and the European Jews would have been a shared buffet, divvied up between concentration camps flying the swastika or the red star.

What made the Holocaust totally unlike most genocides is that we remember the victims; and the only reason we do is, once again, the USA. The European Jews were totally vulnerable and despised over there, (thanks to the Christian church), but their kin in America were doing fine and cared enough to remember their relatives who died. Compare this to almost any other example of genocide, and there are literally thousands of examples, and you'll see the difference: most of the time (I mean DUH!) the tribe that gets genocided is the most despised, weak and helpless tribe in the region. That means nobody remembers them at all, or if they do they consider the genocide an example of Progress, or just one of those things. If you doubt that, then tell me quick what tribe lived 400 years ago in the city where you're reading this now, that's how most genocides work. The tribe vanishes forever. That's why they call it genocide, for God's sake! And once it's gone--Duh!--nobody remembers it or cares.

The reason people love to talk about Nazis killing Jews is that, thanks to the Jews in America, there were people who insisted on remembering the victims. If people thought about the genocide of, say, the tribe that lived where you lived, they'd get bummed. They'd realize the world is a slaughterhouse and there are no moral lessons. That's why they'd rather talk about Auschwitz than...your hometown.
 
Too true. While I think the holocaust was one of the worst events in human history, theres a genocide in Africa now that most people couldn't give a **** about.
 
Too true. While I think the holocaust was one of the worst events in human history, theres a genocide in Africa now that most people couldn't give a **** about.

And there was the Armenian Genocide that the Turks are still saying didn't happen.

Still, Darfur is a more pressing issue.
 
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