The desperation of christian 'logic'

[Dawkinsrocks]

Christians like to mix a bit of logic into their arguments until logic sneaks up on them and demolishes the sense of their belief system that is.

Here are their attempts at using logic when it suits them.

Argument 1.

Everything has a cause and this cannot be an infinte regress so there had to be a creator.

Now whilst I don't subscribe to this argument I can see a logic to it so I am prepared to let it go unchallenged.

The next piece of christian syllogistic reasoning is...

So therefore god.

Now I thnk that even those amongst you who are only distantly acquainted with logic can see a leap there of epic proportion.
There are a whole lot of steps missing from the 'there must be a creator' to 'so therefore god'.

(I am using 'god' here as the christians' god of the bible).

Argument 2

You cannot prove that god doesn't exist so therefore he does.


The first argument is bereft of many conditionals and the second is absurd.

The evidence to support these 'arguments' is a book of fairy stories.

Hmm, I am tempted to become a christian myself.

The arguments are so compelling.

 

[rushhannity]

You should become a Christian, before you die and go to Hell

 

[rushhannity]

If you buckled down and did some studying you would know that even Darwin received
Christ before he died. But that is understandable on your part, since not too many
liberal socialist communists believe in God..

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

So no rebuttals from the christians so far.

Rush, why don't you 'buckle down' and explain where my argument goes wrong?

Or stop being a christian before you die and have wasted your life

 

[Rhodri]

So no rebuttals from the christians so far.

Rush, why don't you 'buckle down' and explain where my argument goes wrong?

Or stop being a christian before you die and have wasted your life

You offer nothing eye opening here. What's common knowlege has apparently elluded you...I'll help you with your first revelation..Christians rely on 'faith'.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh, so you agree there are no coherent arguments or evidence for the existence of god.

Thanks for the support

 

[Rhodri]

Oh, so you agree there are no coherent arguments or evidence for the existence of god.

Yes. Case closed

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

It is a shame that more christians aren't as honest as you

 

[Hobo1]

The opening argument has great merit based on logic as we know it today. Connecting a "higher power" or "greater power" with the Christian God as it is defined in the Bible is devoid of all logic.

If your point is Christians cannot prove God, as they know the word, exists. But that is not terribly satisfying from the standpoint of answering the question, "Then what is this this higher power, and how can we understand it better?"

This is a deep subject, but let me just breach the surface by saying that scientists cannot offer an explanation of what causes gravity, why our universe continues to expand at a ever rapid pace (against all laws of gravity), or what is this "dark matter" that has the property of matter but cannot be seen or detected with any instruments.

My point is that mankind circa 2008 is still in the stone age regarding understanding physics of the universe. We cannot hope to guess what is creating order in the universe. Therefore we cannot hope to understand what powers this "higher power" really possesses. Is it a purely physical thing or event, such as the big bang, which set the universe in motion... then simply vanished? Or is this power capable of influencing the lives of individual humans.

Our minuscule knowledge of physics can strongly prove that particles called electrons exist... why then do not particles called deitons exist? That is, a mechanism acting within us that is perhaps responding to an external aether which may be the dimension where the universal higher power exists... similar to dark matter.

The possibilities here are endless, and your conclusion that Christians (or any other religion) indeed has the correct answer is 100% unsupportable. I am intrigued, however, but the innate desire for human beings to believe in a God. It suggests that some power does exist in our lives that can influence our actions. That fact alone is a great curiosity and is something that we must contend with, even if our conclusion is "I do not have sufficient information to know the correct answer."

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

I completely agree that nobody knows how it all started.

The difference is I don't make up an answer that is then used to dominate, persecute, impoverish, scare and humiliate people. Not to mention torture and kill or promote ignorance and bigotry.

So I reckon that getting the supertitious fools who believe in god to accept that their beliefs are completely groundless is a good first base.

Don't you?

 

[Rhodri]

The opening argument has great merit based on logic as we know it today. Connecting a "higher power" or "greater power" with the Christian God as it is defined in the Bible is devoid of all logic.

If your point is Christians cannot prove God, as they know the word, exists. But that is not terribly satisfying from the standpoint of answering the question, "Then what is this this higher power, and how can we understand it better?"

This is a deep subject, but let me just breach the surface by saying that scientists cannot offer an explanation of what causes gravity, why our universe continues to expand at a ever rapid pace (against all laws of gravity), or what is this "dark matter" that has the property of matter but cannot be seen or detected with any instruments.

My point is that mankind circa 2008 is still in the stone age regarding understanding physics of the universe. We cannot hope to guess what is creating order in the universe. Therefore we cannot hope to understand what powers this "higher power" really possesses. Is it a purely physical thing or event, such as the big bang, which set the universe in motion... then simply vanished? Or is this power capable of influencing the lives of individual humans.

Our minuscule knowledge of physics can strongly prove that particles called electrons exist... why then do not particles called deitons exist? That is, a mechanism acting within us that is perhaps responding to an external aether which may be the dimension where the universal higher power exists... similar to dark matter.

The possibilities here are endless, and your conclusion that Christians (or any other religion) indeed has the correct answer is 100% unsupportable. I am intrigued, however, but the innate desire for human beings to believe in a God. It suggests that some power does exist in our lives that can influence our actions. That fact alone is a great curiosity and is something that we must contend with, even if our conclusion is "I do not have sufficient information to know the correct answer."

Great post Hobo.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

The desire in humans to believe in a god is evidence of their desire to believe in a god.
Suggesting that the desire to believe in something is evidence of its existence is another example of the desperation of christian logic

People have longed for the secret of alchemy or the elixir of youth.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

I have to say that I am very disappointed with you christians on this subject, well actually on every subject to be honest but especially on this one.

Considering your adamance about the truth of your belief system and and how derogatory you are towards atheists I thought there might be one amongst you who would have a stab at countering my original post.

Especially as many of you are VERY vocal on other threads on the subject.

Come on christians, I am not a lion in the colliseum, you can fight back without getting scarred.

Or can you?

It is enough to make a lesser man than me think you can't counter my point but you aren't big enough to accept it.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Come on christians, fight back for god's sake

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Come on christians, fight back for god's sake

They don't have to fight back with you, there are more of them and they can out-vote you. Look at what they have done to gay and transgendered people the same way that they victimized dark-skinned people, mentally ill people, developmentally disabled people, crippled people, and women in the past. Look at what they have done to each other in the name of Jesus.

Personally, I hope Jesus was resurrected, otherwise the poor bugger would be spinning in His grave over the things being done in His name.