Taxation Is Robbery

[vyo476]

Well the only legitimate contract allows everyone the right to pursue any peaceful, honest, voluntary activity that they choose. Government will have the authority to step in ONLY if someone uses force, fraud, or coercion against another. It's the only system that can be defended from a standpoint of pure logic.

Within that system, people can create any number and any manner of contracts with each other that they choose - as long as the results of the contracts are peaceful, honest and voluntary.

But there is still a "contract" between the people and the government, no? Unless the government is to be totally uninvolved (therefore not policing to make sure that everything that's going on is "peaceful, honest, and voluntary"), there must be some agreement between the people and the government.

Would this be in the form of a social contract or a grouping of written contracts?

 

[Coyote]

No, you cannot. A U.S. citizen cannot renounce his or her citizenship for the stated purpose of avoiding taxes. Also - the U.S. is the only country greedy enough to tax its citizens in foreign countries.

Ahh...you are right, I did not realize that.

You could stop empowering armed men to control my peaceful, honest, voluntary actions.

Why? I like the benefits my taxes pay for. If you don't, go elsewhere.

What armed men are trying to control what peaceful actions?

Of course, when it would destroy your argument.

A lot of things could destroy my argument, including an invasion of Earth by aliens. However I prefer to deal with reality.

 

[numinus]

No, it is not. I was not given a choice on paying taxes, as one example. I am immediately threatened by force in this "political association."

You were obliged to pay your taxes consequent to the benefits of citizenship you enjoyed.

No you cannot. For example, in the U.S. one cannot end their citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxes - so the state retains its hold on your wealth and property.

Sure you can! Rather than post further inane twaddle in this forum, you can get up and leave.

How can the government assess you of taxes when you are no longer earning any income in the country?

More to the point - how can the government assess you of taxes when you are no longer living in the country to begin with?

But you just can't get up and leave, can you? I'm not the least bit surprised!

It does not give you a free choice in the matter. One day there will be a one world government. What will you clowns argue then? That people must leave and go to the moon if they don't agree with the majority?

And this thread is a veritable circus of absurdity from your repeated posts!

I assure you, the us government wouldn't be inclined to bother with you once you remove yourself from the country and reside in the himalayas. If the american taliban can do this, so can you.

This I solemnly swear!

 

[Truth-Bringer]

Would this be in the form of a social contract or a grouping of written contracts?

No one can say "Ah ha - gotcha - you had to agree to this just by virtue of existing in this particular area!" Again, any contract can only be valid if entered into knowingly and voluntarily and with full disclosure. No one can be forced to do anything, unless they violate someone else's rights by initiating force, fraud or coercion against them.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

Ahh...you are right,

Yes, I am.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

You were obliged to pay your taxes consequent to the benefits of citizenship you enjoyed.

No, no alleged "benefits" existed before the government stole money from others.

Sure you can!

No, you cannot, and Coyote just admitted it.

And this thread is a veritable circus of absurdity

From your posts, yes it is.

 

[vyo476]

No one can say "Ah ha - gotcha - you had to agree to this just by virtue of existing in this particular area!" Again, any contract can only be valid if entered into knowingly and voluntarily and with full disclosure. No one can be forced to do anything, unless they violate someone else's rights by initiating force, fraud or coercion against them.

I suppose that's sort of an answer. Perhaps I'm not phrasing the question very well.

By what means do the people in a Libertarian society transfer power to the government? Do they get together and write a document that outlines the role of government, and then they all have to sign it or else it's void?

I'm still not wording this very well. I apologize.

Let's say you start with anarchy. Then, a group of people decide they want a government to make sure that all their peaceful and honest activities are protected. How do they make that government?

 

[numinus]

No, no alleged "benefits" existed before the government stole money from others.

Your perfect liberty - that which you possess OUTSIDE the political association - is UNTENABLE, therefore ILL-SUITED for human existence.

It is untenable for the simple reason that anyone is at PERFECT liberty to deny everyone else of the same. Do you follow?

It is clear that perfect liberty - that which you are arguing for - that which exists outside the political association - is INTOLERABLE.

Oh, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO jurisprudence that considers taxation as theft. You might want to ease up on the absurd rhetorics and start posting something with substance.

No, you cannot, and Coyote just admitted it.

And what coyote admits is necessarily true, eh?

I know expat americans who have no intentions of going back to the states, have renounced their citizenship in lieu of another, and do not pay taxes.

Its called naturalization and renunciation of citizenship, btw.

I leave it up to you to google it - if you are competent enough.

From your posts, yes it is.

You have no idea what facts and logic are, have you?

 

[invest07]

The progressive income tax has been a model for all sorts of wacky tax schemes, that don't work.

The Fair tax is the best proposal to come along in 50 years.
It is my understanding that the reduction in taxes on businesses would reduce prices enough to offset the sales tax.
And the lower prices would be a great boon for export of US goods and services.