Something To Think About

dogtowner said:
The letter of ole TJ's in question was speaking specifically to running the govt on import tariffs alone. He contended that only the monied consumed imports and so the rest should not be subject to them.
Other than that his main thing was making revenue the domain of those pols subject to popular vote. At that time senate was to not be selected by popular vote.
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Yes, and that was what I said. Glad to see you agree. The best way to limit the size of government is to have the wealthy pay for it. However, that was changed with the 16th. Amendment. Now we have a system where the wealthy pay a lower share of their income in the form of taxes, and the middle class is being destroyed by your crony "capitalism" most intelligent people call "corporatism".
 
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Old_Trapper70 said:
As to Godwin's "law", it could apply to most any subject, and should not be limited to just Nazism. In this day, and age, it would apply to your use of "Marxism" when you have painted yourself into the box with no way out. And since you cannot logically, or rationally, debate a topic you have to refer to this personal attack "explanation for what the constitution was, and was not....go take a look and see if you see any of your marxist ideals described therein. Here is a hint...they aren't." So, rather then even attempt to explain away the "marxist" beliefs of Jefferson, Franklin, Christ, etc. (by your definition), or to even cite one sentence from the Federalist papers to disprove what I had said, you again make a fool of yourself.
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Perhaps, if you weren't in fact a marxist which clearly you are.

Old_Trapper70 said:
BTW, if you had the intellect to understand what was said you would have understood that the comparison of Trump to Hitler as used in the article was quite accurate.
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I am sure that it is in that little box you have painted up for yourself....no accurate portrayal of trump includes either hitler or the nazis. As much as I dislike the man and as ridiculous as he is, his politics bear no resemblance to the nazis...and he is a raging capitalist whether you like it or not...

Old_Trapper70 said:
And as to the failure of socialism, fools like you seem never to be able to understand that "socialism" in America has worked quite well. Even assholes like you have benefited from it.
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Really? Which means of production does the US own? Which industries have been nationalized? The only one I can think of is medical and it is turning into the very nightmare that was predicted...costs are skyrocketing while services are diminishing,
 
Old_Trapper70 said:
Yes, and that was what I said. Glad to see you agree. The best way to limit the size of government is to have the wealthy pay for it. However, that was changed with the 16th. Amendment. Now we have a system where the wealthy pay a lower share of their income in the form of taxes, and the middle class is being destroyed by your crony "capitalism" most intelligent people call "corporatism".
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Spoken like a true marxist...complaining that the wealthy don't pay enough while they are paying the vast majority of the taxes being collected...the top 10%, at present pay over 70% of federal income taxes...the remaining 70% share the remaining 30% and almost 50% pay no taxes at all.. The way to limit the size of government is to eliminate the programs instituted by liberals with a socialist dream.
 
palerider said:
Spoken like a true marxist...complaining that the wealthy don't pay enough while they are paying the vast majority of the taxes being collected...the top 10%, at present pay over 70% of federal income taxes...the remaining 70% share the remaining 30% and almost 50% pay no taxes at all.. The way to limit the size of government is to eliminate the programs instituted by liberals with a socialist dream.
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Spoken like the true mindless. The 1% control 85% of the wealth, and receive 65% of the wealth created each year. In order to eliminate the social programs would be to deny the historical beginnings of the country. It would laso be to deny the claim that the US is a "christian" country something you obviously do not believe. As top the 50% that pay no taxes, thanks to the greed of your "gods" that 50% are not paid enough to have to pay taxes. Of course, this allows for your "gods" to make even more wealth while stealing it from the less fortunate.

However, you have once again failed to answer the question as to whether you think Jefferson, Franklin, and most of the Founding Fathers, and even Christ, were Marxists.
 
palerider said:
Perhaps, if you weren't in fact a marxist which clearly you are.
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In other words, you have never read the Federalist Papers, have no clue as to what was said there save for what the likes of Limbaugh has told you, and have no way to prove me wrong.

I am sure that it is in that little box you have painted up for yourself....no accurate portrayal of trump includes either hitler or the nazis. As much as I dislike the man and as ridiculous as he is, his politics bear no resemblance to the nazis...and he is a raging capitalist whether you like it or not...
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And Obama is a capitalist by your standards. However, since you lack the intellect to understand the article posted, the reference was to the personalities of Trump and Hitler, not to Nazism.

[quote[Really? Which means of production does the US own? Which industries have been nationalized? The only one I can think of is medical and it is turning into the very nightmare that was predicted...costs are skyrocketing while services are diminishing,[/QUOTE]

Costs, and services, or the medical world have been increasing, and declining, for at least 20 years. In the year before the ACA projected increases in premiums was 138%. As to the services rendered, reports came out in 2000 about the decline in the numbers of the primary care physicians, and the sorry shape of the hospitals. I would suspect you have conveniently forgotten how it was shown how more people died from going to to a hospital then those who sought alternative services. The too, I seriously suspect your little box of a mind has ignored that around 50,000 people were dying each year due to lack of health insurance. Then we have the little matter of the Republican controlled States refusing to engage in the ACA.

There is so much you lack the insight to see it is no wonder that you are floundering trying to find some position to support your ideology save for the one where you have your head up your ass.

Oh, BTW, socialism does not require national ownership of production. Like everything else you have no understanding of what socialism, especially Democratic Socialism, is. You probably actually think we are a capitalist nation which is total *********:

http://alibertarianfuture.com/big-government/capitalism-is-not-corporatism/#sthash.AfEIB8OI.dpbs
 
Old_Trapper70 said:
Yes, and that was what I said. Glad to see you agree. The best way to limit the size of government is to have the wealthy pay for it. However, that was changed with the 16th. Amendment. Now we have a system where the wealthy pay a lower share of their income in the form of taxes, and the middle class is being destroyed by your crony "capitalism" most intelligent people call "corporatism".
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My ? Surely you are not suggesting the left does not practice it ?
It was also not the case that revenue was exclusively this sort.
The real question is how/why revenue jumped from 3% up to 18ish%.
 
dogtowner said:
My ? Surely you are not suggesting the left does not practice it ?
It was also not the case that revenue was exclusively this sort.
The real question is how/why revenue jumped from 3% up to 18ish%.
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Revenue jumped when? Certainly nor since 2007. And 3% to 18% of what?

And I have never claimed the left does not spend money. However, it is the right that claims to be the "fiscal responsible" party even though every time they have had control the national debt has doubled, or tripled.

Notice the decline in tax revenues under Reagan, and Bush:

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/es/11/ES1124.pdf
 
Old_Trapper70 said:
Spoken like the true mindless.
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If you don't want people thinking you are a marxist, perhaps you should stop talking. Everything you say confirms that you are.

Old_Trapper70 said:
However, you have once again failed to answer the question as to whether you think Jefferson, Franklin, and most of the Founding Fathers, and even Christ, were Marxists.
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I answered...sorry it was over your head...go learn something.
 
Old_Trapper70 said:
In other words, you have never read the Federalist Papers, have no clue as to what was said there save for what the likes of Limbaugh has told you, and have no way to prove me wrong.
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I have read them which is why I asked where you might find any of your marxist beliefs written there....I can't help but note that you haven't provided any reference.

Old_Trapper70 said:
And Obama is a capitalist by your standards. However, since you lack the intellect to understand the article posted, the reference was to the personalities of Trump and Hitler, not to Nazism.
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Sorry, but again, you don't have a clue....Obama is the first president to nationalize a public corporation...again, what is the foundation of national socialism?...why it's nationalizing the means of production.

Old_Trapper70 said:
Costs, and services, or the medical world have been increasing, and declining, for at least 20 years. In the year before the ACA projected increases in premiums was 138%. As to the services rendered, reports came out in 2000 about the decline in the numbers of the primary care physicians, and the sorry shape of the hospitals. I would suspect you have conveniently forgotten how it was shown how more people died from going to to a hospital then those who sought alternative services. The too, I seriously suspect your little box of a mind has ignored that around 50,000 people were dying each year due to lack of health insurance. Then we have the little matter of the Republican controlled States refusing to engage in the ACA.
Click to expand...

Obama care has not improved the situation...it is programs like obama care, and insurance reform that have driven up the cost of medical care. Can you imagine what your auto insurance would cost if it had to cover oil changes, washes, tune ups, windshield wipers etc? Prior to the socialist drive for "free" medical care, we purchased catastrophic medical insurance which paid for large unforeseen medical expenses and the rest came out of our pockets and medical care was quite reasonable...it is the drive towards socialism that has created a medical bureaucracy which must be fed an ever increasing amount of money which has driven up costs.

Old_Trapper70 said:
There is so much you lack the insight to see it is no wonder that you are floundering trying to find some position to support your ideology save for the one where you have your head up your ass.
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Being a good little marxist, at this point, you don't even know what you don't know....hell, I bet you are sitting there thinking obama care is a good thing...Hell I bet you think all good comes from government.
 
palerider said:
I have read them which is why I asked where you might find any of your marxist beliefs written there....I can't help but note that you haven't provided any reference.
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No you haven't. You seemed to be under the false impression that the Federalist Papers reflected the view od all of the Founding Fathers, and you have yet to cite even one example from the Papers that disproves anything I have said. You have yet to acknowledge that Founders like Jefferson, Franklin, Webster, and others, were not "marxists" even as you have yet to prove I am.

Sorry, but again, you don't have a clue....Obama is the first president to nationalize a public corporation...again, what is the foundation of national socialism?...why it's nationalizing the means of production.
Click to expand...

What corporation did Obama "nationalize"? Healthcare? Medicare did that long ago. The auto industry? Banking industry? Just what industry are you speaking of?

Obama care has not improved the situation...it is programs like obama care, and insurance reform that have driven up the cost of medical care. Can you imagine what your auto insurance would cost if it had to cover oil changes, washes, tune ups, windshield wipers etc? Prior to the socialist drive for "free" medical care, we purchased catastrophic medical insurance which paid for large unforeseen medical expenses and the rest came out of our pockets and medical care was quite reasonable...it is the drive towards socialism that has created a medical bureaucracy which must be fed an ever increasing amount of money which has driven up costs.
Click to expand...

Obamacare has not driven up anything. Prior to the passage of the ACA rates were going up by 138% per year. Over 50,000 people were dying each year due to the lack of healthcare. ER's were being flooded with people who had colds, the flu, etc. Now, I know you could care less about other people as long as your sorry ass is protected. Others do. Now, as I said before, when Medicare part D was passed it was a mess, and it was a Republican mess. However, both parties worked together to fix the problems, and even though it took a year to do so it was done. Now you have Republicans who fight to repeal the ACA even though they have nothing to replace it with, and at least 21 Republican controlled States that refuse to participate. You have businesses that are cancelling their coverage for employees. And physicians are listing themselves as "specialists" so they can charge double what a primary care physician can.

Explain also, and this will be the third time you have refused to answer, was Ben Franklin, and the first US Congress, "Marxists" when they passed a law to provide free healthcare for the poor, and to build hospitals specifically for that purpose? Was Christ a "Marxist" when He told the rich young ruler to give his money to the poor?

Being a good little marxist, at this point, you don't even know what you don't know....hell, I bet you are sitting there thinking obama care is a good thing...Hell I bet you think all good comes from government.
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Problem with you is you think with your ass, not the brains God mistakenly gave you.
 
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