Soldier Suicides

[Walter]

You don't go to war half way. You either are at war, or you are not. Maybe that lesson has been learned this time around

No, the lession has not been learned. This kind of conflict is the new standard of our times. Many armies are converted to small rapid deployment forces: fast to deploy, fast to retract, nothing solved.

Had we gone all out to wipe Al Qaeda and the Taliban, our real enemies in the region, from the face of the Earth, the war would have been over years ago

The Russians thought the same in Afghanistan.

 

[PLC1]

No, the lession has not been learned. This kind of conflict is the new standard of our times. Many armies are converted to small rapid deployment forces: fast to deploy, fast to retract, nothing solved.



The Russians thought the same in Afghanistan.

I believe it was Orwell who first described the purpose of limited warfare.

 

[LilAnn]

If anybody deserves favoritism and privileged in our society, it's the soldiers. I can't believe our country has gotten so backwards!

 

[srofltank]

If anybody deserves favoritism and privileged in our society, it's the soldiers. I can't believe our country has gotten so backwards!

Also to add the suicide rates and the homeless rates for our vets from Vietnam.. it's sad to see celebrities and football players who abuse their spouses earning millions while veterans who suffer from PTSD and risked their lives starting at the early age of twenty being forgotten by our society today. We need to change and we need to support these people, and the soldiers today as well who suffer from PTSD and other mental/physical disabilities.

 

[LilAnn]

Also to add the suicide rates and the homeless rates for our vets from Vietnam.. it's sad to see celebrities and football players who abuse their spouses earning millions while veterans who suffer from PTSD and risked their lives starting at the early age of twenty being forgotten by our society today. We need to change and we need to support these people, and the soldiers today as well who suffer from PTSD and other mental/physical disabilities.

Eventually, people are going to wise up and quit joining, unless we start taking care of our country's heroes. Even the people who were born to be soldiers will just go elsewhere... like the french Foreign legion or something similar.

 

[BigRob]

Yes, it is "akin to a declaration of war." It is not a declaration of war. The first undeclared war, the one in Vietnam, wasn't called a war at the time it was being fought because Congress had not declared war on Vietnam. The second undeclared war was authorized by Congress, but was never formally declared. The result of both of those incidents of side stepping the Constitution were wars (or perhaps actions akin to wars) that were not supported by the folks back home and were not entered into with the intention of utterly defeating the enemy.

Had we gone all out to wipe Al Qaeda and the Taliban, our real enemies in the region, from the face of the Earth, the war would have been over years ago. As it is, the situation is more dire than it was before the half way war was ever fought.

Please explain to where you get the concept of what a "formal" declaration needs to look like.

 

[PLC1]

Please explain to where you get the concept of what a "formal" declaration needs to look like.

Here's an example:

Seventy-Seventh Congress of the United States of America; At the First Session Begun and held at the City of Washington, on Friday, the third day of January, 1942.

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring That a State of War Exists Between The Government of Germany and the Government and the People of the United States and Making Provisions To Prosecute The Same

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

(Signed) Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House of Representatives
(Signed) H. A. Wallace, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate
Approved December 11, 1941 3:05 PM E.S.T.
(Signed) Franklin D. Roosevelt[2]

 

[BigRob]

Here's an example:

So the example is - "we did it this way before"...meaning its basically arbitrary and up to the discretion of the Congress how they want to define it? There is nothing in the Constitution for example that spells out what a declaration of war must look like. I think its a compelling case to argue that the authorized use of force is a declaration of war by Congress.

 

[PLC1]

So the example is - "we did it this way before"...meaning its basically arbitrary and up to the discretion of the Congress how they want to define it? There is nothing in the Constitution for example that spells out what a declaration of war must look like. I think its a compelling case to argue that the authorized use of force is a declaration of war by Congress.

You could say that, and, unlike the "military action" in Vietnam, they actually did pass an authorized use of force. What such an action doesn't do, however is to put the nation on a war footing, make funding and fighting the war a priority for the nation. What it authorizes is a limited war, the very sort that Orwell warned us about.

So, the war in Iraq, unlike the non war in Vietnam, may actually have been a war and not an unconstitutional increase in the power of the executive branch at the expense of the legislative. It was not the way to go about defeating an enemy, however.