Sense and sexuality

[Texas_tea]

AIDS is a behavior disease.

AIDS is a blood borne disease.

Perhaps according to you, we should put all these sinners in a colony, like they use to do leprosy victims. Or maybe, since many who contract AIDS are homosexual, we should just stone them like the islamist do.

And, why stop there? People who have weight issues and suffer from ailments such as HTN or weight bearing joint issues should be shamed as well. Maybe public floggings and forced fasting.

And, what about people who become ill because of job related illnesses? Coal Miners could have certainly behaved better in getting a different job, shouldn't they be subjected to your shame as well?

Really, it sounds to me like you just want to subject people to your self righteous "better than thou" syndrome BS because you were fortunate enough to have been dealt a better set of circumstances in this life.

Sorry my friend ...... I am gonna have to call this one clear and absolute BS!

 

[invest07]

Actually Tex,, we are both right. AIDS is a blood borne disease which, in 95% of cases, is caused by irresponsible and reckless behavior. Perhaps if enough people were reminded of this, fewer would chose to engage in reckless sexual behavior. AIDS could be brought under control virtually overnight if irresponsible sexual behavior stopped. Think about that. If only people acknowledged the risk and chose not to behave recklessly and to forego instant sexual gratification, 95% of new AIDS cases would not even happen.

And you have no idea what set of circumstances I was dealt in life. I am no better than anyone else. I do chose to accept my responsibilites along with demanding my rights. I attempt to behave as responsibly as I can, unlike the 95% of AIDS infectees.

One big difference I sense between you and me is your acceptance of PC. I reject any aspect of PC which interferes with the truth. And treating AID infectees as victims masks the big truth that it was
their own reckless actions that resulted in their disease.

And you may be surprised to learn that I am a volunteer with a local AIDS organization which is not faith based. A neighbor recruited me 2 years ago and I assist with household chores, picking up meds and food and other functions which they are incapable of doing. Two of my patients have died so far and another may be close. And the closer to death each becomes and the weaker they get the more they acknowledge the same facts: "If only I had changed my lifestyle while there was still time".

Maybe a little shame might save just a few lives.

 

[Texas_tea]

Actually Tex,, we are both right. AIDS is a blood borne disease which, in 95% of cases, is caused by irresponsible and reckless behavior.

Actually, there is nothing correct about your statement at all. Not everyone who engages in "irresponsible behavior" is going to get HIV and moreover, not everyone who has contracted HIV has engaged in "irresponsible behavior".

However, 100% of people who have contracted HIV have been exposed to the blood borne virus!

Perhaps if enough people were reminded of this, fewer would chose to engage in reckless sexual behavior. AIDS could be brought under control virtually overnight if irresponsible sexual behavior stopped. Think about that. If only people acknowledged the risk and chose not to behave recklessly and to forego instant sexual gratification, 95% of new AIDS cases would not even happen.

Reminding people of the risk of risky sexual practices is not the same as "shaming" them. And, if simple PSA's could prevent AIDS, it never would have become a pandemic to begin with. Your comment is not based in reality.

And you have no idea what set of circumstances I was dealt in life. I am no better than anyone else. I do chose to accept my responsibilites along with demanding my rights. I attempt to behave as responsibly as I can, unlike the 95% of AIDS infectees.

Well, I am glad you take responsibility for your own actions. After all, that is what it means to be a responsible adult. However, that does not give you a pedestal to spew your self righteousness and judgement against the sick.

One big difference I sense between you and me is your acceptance of PC. I reject any aspect of PC which interferes with the truth. And treating AID infectees as victims masks the big truth that it was
their own reckless actions that resulted in their disease.

Perhaps you should read some of my other post before making such a ridiculous statement that I accept anything PC. Choosing not to "shame" the sick has nothing to do with political correctness. Honestly, it has to do with not being a douche and showing a little compassion towards the sick.

You do realize that many if not most diseases can be linked to life-style choices at one level or another, right? Try reading Romans 6:23. I suspect you do know this and I question why you specifically want to "shame" AIDS victims. Maybe a little of that closet homophobia, huh?

And you may be surprised to learn that I am a volunteer with a local AIDS organization which is not faith based. A neighbor recruited me 2 years ago and I assist with household chores, picking up meds and food and other functions which they are incapable of doing. Two of my patients have died so far and another may be close. And the closer to death each becomes and the weaker they get the more they acknowledge the same facts: "If only I had changed my lifestyle while there was still time".

Volunteer work is certainly commendable if you are doing it to show compassion for your fellow man who is sick. However, if you are doing it to shame the sick, to remind them of their sin from your pedestal of self-righteousness, it not only makes you a phony but, something much worse.

 

[dogtowner]

Apparantly its meere logic needed to get homosexuals in safer sex. so sayeth one of those duck guys.

 

[invest07]

"Not everyone who engages in "irresponsible behavior" is going to get HIV "
Correct you are. If I am irresponsible driving or with credit cards I stand little if any chance of contracting AIDS.

"and moreover, not everyone who has contracted HIV has engaged in "irresponsible behavior"."
Correct again. Only 95% of AIDS infectees have engaged in reckless sexual behavior.

"And, if simple PSA's could prevent AIDS, it never would have become a pandemic to begin with. Your comment is not based in reality."
The reality is that education is not enough to stop irresponsible sexual behavior. That has been tried and it has failed miserably. Shame just brings a stronger tool to the table. And shame was very effective during earlier decades. My advocacy for shame is very much based in the reality that the status quo has failed miserably and stronger measures are needed. Think about this the way a parent deals with a child who misbehaves. If a stern lecture works, then a stern lecture is all the child gets. If That doesn't work then stronger methods are used. Shame has been proven effective. Education has been proven to be a failure.

"Perhaps you should read some of my other post before making such a ridiculous statement that I accept anything PC. Choosing not to "shame" the sick has nothing to do with political correctness. Honestly, it has to do with not being a douche and showing a little compassion towards the sick."
PC has the surface mission of not offending. The true mission is below the surface : control of free speech. The true mission is to establish a double standard. It is OK for Jeremiah Wright to spew racial hatred. It is OK for rappers to say "nigger". It is not OK for others to do the same.

" However, if you are doing it to shame the sick, to remind them of their sin from your pedestal of self-righteousness, it not only makes you a phony but, something much worse.["
Nowhere have I used the word Sin. Nowhere have I advocated using shame from a "PEDESTAL" or to make myself feel holier than thou. Shame is merely a stronger tool in our arsenal to combat a killer disease.

Let me sum this up for you:
1) Education has not worked
2) Pandering by calling AIDS infectees "Victims" has failed
3) So far, no PC approved method has worked.
4) In the past shame has been effective. If it would save lives, I say go for it.

This will be my last comment so you, Tex, are free to have the last politically correct word.

 

[Texas_tea]

"Not everyone who engages in "irresponsible behavior" is going to get HIV "
Correct you are. If I am irresponsible driving or with credit cards I stand little if any chance of contracting AIDS.

"and moreover, not everyone who has contracted HIV has engaged in "irresponsible behavior"."
Correct again. Only 95% of AIDS infectees have engaged in reckless sexual behavior.

"And, if simple PSA's could prevent AIDS, it never would have become a pandemic to begin with. Your comment is not based in reality."
The reality is that education is not enough to stop irresponsible sexual behavior. That has been tried and it has failed miserably. Shame just brings a stronger tool to the table. And shame was very effective during earlier decades. My advocacy for shame is very much based in the reality that the status quo has failed miserably and stronger measures are needed. Think about this the way a parent deals with a child who misbehaves. If a stern lecture works, then a stern lecture is all the child gets. If That doesn't work then stronger methods are used. Shame has been proven effective. Education has been proven to be a failure.

"Perhaps you should read some of my other post before making such a ridiculous statement that I accept anything PC. Choosing not to "shame" the sick has nothing to do with political correctness. Honestly, it has to do with not being a douche and showing a little compassion towards the sick."
PC has the surface mission of not offending. The true mission is below the surface : control of free speech. The true mission is to establish a double standard. It is OK for Jeremiah Wright to spew racial hatred. It is OK for rappers to say "nigger". It is not OK for others to do the same.

" However, if you are doing it to shame the sick, to remind them of their sin from your pedestal of self-righteousness, it not only makes you a phony but, something much worse.["
Nowhere have I used the word Sin. Nowhere have I advocated using shame from a "PEDESTAL" or to make myself feel holier than thou. Shame is merely a stronger tool in our arsenal to combat a killer disease.

Let me sum this up for you:
1) Education has not worked
2) Pandering by calling AIDS infectees "Victims" has failed
3) So far, no PC approved method has worked.
4) In the past shame has been effective. If it would save lives, I say go for it.

This will be my last comment so you, Tex, are free to have the last politically correct word.

I really don't need a "last comment" here invest07 ...

I understood your position correctly the first time and responded accordingly.

That response still stands.

And, furthermore, stating that you are not taking a holier than thou position on this subject and not using the word "sin" does not make it so.

Again, your position is clear .... even if you refuse to see the total sum of what you are saying.

And, finally, PC has nothing to do with this conversation. Clearly this is simply "judgement vs. compassion for the sick".

I will choose compassion in this particular case!

 

[cashmcall]

I never said AIDS is not a pandemic. I said it is not a pandemic like SARS or flu. AIDS is easily preventable by behaving in a responsible manner. I can exercise little if any control over whether or not I contract the flu. I can, with almost 100% effectiveness, control whether or not I contract AIDS: all I have to do is keep my pants zipped until it is safe to unzip. AIDS is a behavior disease. If you control your personal behavior, you have next to zero risk of contracting AIDS. Short of living in a bubble, there is little you or I can do to avoid exposure to the flu.
If I contract lung cancer or emphysema after smoking all my life, should I be a victim? I had the opportunity at any point in my life to reduce my risk of lung cancer to near zero by simply making a choice not to smoke. If I continue smoking, shame on me for being stupid or reckless or both. I certainly don't deserve victim status for being stupid or reckless.
95% of AIDS victims contracted the disease by engaging in reckless and/or irresponsible sexual behavior. They not only endanger themselves but others. They are deserving of our shame. And shame is not just to make me feel good. During the 1950's shame was alive and well in America and a whole lot more people chose to curb their behavior.
I agree AIDS is certainly a great pandemic but the greatest in history? This link details the 10 worst plagues in recorded human history. http://listverse.com/2009/01/18/top-10-worst-plagues-in-history/ One thing this list shows is that most of the people who died were not irresponsible. They were ordinary citizens just living their lives. They were not engaging in behaviors that they knew would increase their risk of deadly exposure.
The point I am trying to make is that AIDS is easily preventable with responsible behavior. 95% of the AIDS infectees in the US did not behave responsibly. Every person on the face of the earth is born with certain rights and certain responsibilities. 95% of current AIDS infectees chose to ignore their responsibility. They deserve our shame.

Great debate.. it's nice to see a softer side of Tex..I can clearly see your point..

 

[Texas_tea]

Perhaps this may be a little more effective:



Or maybe even this one:



Well, at least until their CD4 Count gets below 200

I mean anything else would be barbaric and in inhumane, Right?

 

[Dr.Who]

Compassion is great when applied after a person has become a victim to his foolishnes. But prior to his victimization shame may just be a pressure that could cause a change in bahavior.

 

[Texas_tea]

Compassion is great when applied after a person has become a victim to his foolishnes. But prior to his victimization shame may just be a pressure that could cause a change in bahavior.

I wished we lived still in such an innocent society .... but, I for one think in today's world this simply does not work.

Perhaps anyone could list an example where this has been effective in recent times.