Russia To Ban US From Space Station

[dogtowner]

What we can't afford are subsidies of unprofitable industries, sending money to all of the third world governments to waste, any more undeclared wars, keeping more people in jail than any other nation, our overly expensive health care system, the most expensive military on the planet, the hugely expensive and largely unsuccessful war on drugs, and the war on poverty.

What we should be able to afford is a program that has as yet unknown spinoffs for future technology.

As I noted one requirement is gaining control of our spending. But while we puss aesy a LOT of money it may not be enough even if we quit all this needless stuff. Ill give you that there were remarkable spinoffs the last go its hard to assume more of the same. Tax law worjs against innovation now.

 

[GBFan]

When you look at it logically, the space program MIGHT be the only way we can dig ourselves out.

1) We have priced ourselves out of the manufacturing business.
2) Our wage structure is so expensive we have to turn to other economies to do our work because we can't afford to pay our own workers.
3) We can't afford a large military.
4) We have created a populace that demands everything, and is unwilling to contribute anything.

Based on those, we need to rely on technology ... it is our technological lead that gives us the edge on other countries, and enables us to maintain the world's strongest military capability and most efficient workforce.

Increasing technology is our salvation ... unless we want to get down in the dirt and try to compete with other economies. We've got to be able to do everything SMARTER, because we sure as hell can't do it cheaper.

The last space program created a technological revolution. We need another one to maintain our economy. Creating an internally-focused technological program defeats the purpose .... if we make it easier to build widgets, we need to put all those newly unemployed widget makers on the government rolls. It isn't the exploration that is so valuable .... it's the discovery of new technologies to make that exploration possible that just might save this country.

 

[steveox]

This Was Jimmy Carters idea

This was Obamas idea

See what happens when you get too frendly with the Russians? I say now the U.S should work on next Olympic games. Pressure Brazil to ban Russia from 2016 Olympic games. OR America will not be there. So Make Brazil pick n choose who do you want to see in 2016 Olympic games. U.S.A or Russia? Its like telling your Husband its me or the dog.

 

[Aus22]

Last Time The USA refuse to go to the games was in Moscow In 1980. I attended that Olympic Games and there were moer Olympic records than ever. The USA and its allies were not missed. Russia boycotted the next Games in Los Angeles. Nothing was gain by either side except many athletics missed there only chance of a medal on the world stage,

 

[Lagboltz]

I get a biweekly science journal. There are all kinds of breakthroughs in science on earth, in nano particles, non-linear optics, the Higgs boson, high speed quantum computing, biology.

I do not remember reading about a single breakthrough science experiment this decade that came from the space station. One article covered going outside to repair a leaking air conditioner, but no new science on the space station. The best science payback in space has come from unmanned satellites. Initially sending man into space has lead to science breakthroughs, along with being a political breakthrough. But I think that all that remains today is the political side.

I have to agree with dogtowner on this. We can't afford to send man in space unless there is a clear goal, and a way to finance it. I think we are past the era where much unexpected breakthroughs will come from man in space. Unmanned satellites and science on earth now has the best bang for the buck.

 

[steveox]

Aus the games is a business now. The city host the games makes the revinue like hotels,resturants everything you do to visit that city it brings money and revinue. Its like the superbowl where the event could help the economy. The Moscow 1980 games did not do too well. You need the Americans to sell out the arenas and stadiums. Its like this when Babe Ruth played and when the Yankees play on the road every stadium sold out.The fans didnt pay tickets to see the Yankees,They paid to see Babe Ruth. So go phone the mayor of Rio give him a choice Kick the Russians out or we wont come. He will phone Putin tell him my hands are tied. Your deligation is banned from entering Rio.

 

[dogtowner]

As the tech breakthroughs in the past had little to do with the actual space aspect it may not be fair to factor space station activity. I have to say the space station seems mostly a failure. So the thing in my mind is are there more opportunities ala electronic minituration, computers, plastics, composites ? possibly in batteries and free energy (greater distances mean making your power on your craft ditto water and air. Oh and food. The one thing space station may have taught us is there is no cure fir no gravity.

 

[Lagboltz]

If we don't get any more useful results from space station activity what use is it? There is a lot of research motivation for electronic miniaturization and computers by, phone and super computer manufactures. Plastics and composites are of high interest in automotive industries. Batteries are of interest to all industries. I don't see how a space program can motivate all that any further. Research relevant to space will come from unmanned space craft which is becoming more commercialized.

 

[dogtowner]

Lag they didnt start the soace program knowing they needed those things. They came to realize fhey needed those things trying to nake such travel work. So they found a wayto do it. There is no challenge in unmanned been doing that for years.

 

[PLC1]

As the tech breakthroughs in the past had little to do with the actual space aspect it may not be fair to factor space station activity. I have to say the space station seems mostly a failure. So the thing in my mind is are there more opportunities ala electronic minituration, computers, plastics, composites ? possibly in batteries and free energy (greater distances mean making your power on your craft ditto water and air. Oh and food. The one thing space station may have taught us is there is no cure fir no gravity.

The problem with deciding what is and isn't likely to result in technological breakthroughs is that no one knows just where any given study is going to lead. Two or three decades ago, no one predicted the internet, or the GPS, or laptops in virtually everyone's home, or a whole lot of things we take for granted today. Today, no one has any idea what breakthroughs will be taken for granted in another few decades.

Mankind started on an odessey of change and progress back when agriculture was invented and we began to abandon the hunter- gatherer lifestyle. Since then, progress has been measured on a logarithmic scale. There is no going back now, only moving forward. Where it will lead, no one knows.

 

[dogtowner]

P is right. Its the problems that need solving that are the trick. Reentry is hot, had to come up with something that kept the guys from broiling. Stuff like that. Its one reason you dont shoot for ease (ala unmanned) as we already know much about that.
But one big obsticle is changes in tax law that hurts pure research now. Too much pressure to hit ROI in half the time as the old space program days.

 

[GBFan]

P is right. Its the problems that need solving that are the trick. Reentry is hot, had to come up with something that kept the guys from broiling. Stuff like that. Its one reason you dont shoot for ease (ala unmanned) as we already know much about that.
But one big obsticle is changes in tax law that hurts pure research now. Too much pressure to hit ROI in half the time as the old space program days.

Sounds pretty narrow-minded to me .. 'we don't what's out there, so we don't dare go out there until we know what's out there but we can't go out there to find out what's out there because we don't know what's out there' ....

Every day, you take advantage of technological innovations unheard of during, but yet a direct result of, the space program. To believe that we cannot reap positive results from the expansion of human knowledge is stunning.

I agree that current tax laws inhibit privately funded research (it is estimated that medical and drug research efforts are 31% less than they were 10 years ago), but the tax structure doesn't impact government-funded research (which, most assuredly, space research would be).

 

[steveox]

Can the U.N and NATO pressure Russia now? Its called the International Space Station. Not the Russian Space Station. So can the U.N and NATO presure moscow they cannot ban the Americans from International Space Station. If Moscow attempts to forbid NASA entering the space station then the U.N and NATO evict the Russian deligation. Plus Obama can deny a visa to Vlad Putin when he wants to speak at U.N.

 

[dogtowner]

Sounds pretty narrow-minded to me .. 'we don't what's out there, so we don't dare go out there until we know what's out there but we can't go out there to find out what's out there because we don't know what's out there' ....

Every day, you take advantage of technological innovations unheard of during, but yet a direct result of, the space program. To believe that we cannot reap positive results from the expansion of human knowledge is stunning.

I agree that current tax laws inhibit privately funded research (it is estimated that medical and drug research efforts are 31% less than they were 10 years ago), but the tax structure doesn't impact government-funded research (which, most assuredly, space research would be).

Tax implications do impact if there is govt $.

 

[PLC1]

There could be an up side to Russia's decision:

On the beneficiaries side, meanwhile, it seems certain that one of the key missions of the new Orbital ATK space firm, once ATK and Orbital finalize their merger, will be to develop an independently produced rocket engine capable of lifting ULA's space packages into orbit. The companies will have a guaranteed customer in ULA, and probably gain others around the globe, as Russia's one-time embargo on rocket engines creates uncertainty among the country's other customers.

Separately, ULA's declamations aside, Elon Musk makes an excellent point in noting that SpaceX builds its engines internally, and does not rely on Russian suppliers for its ability to support Air Force launch missions. That's going to be a big factor in SpaceX's favor when the Senate agrees -- as I believe it must -- to open up military space launch missions to price-based competition.

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