Republican "Pledge to America" introduced

Why don't we propose some short and snappy. like

"I pledge to

1) ceaselessly meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations

2) add large amounts to the federal and state debts

3) lie about my personal and business life

4) advance the opportunity for graft and corruption for myself and my family

5) try to increase police and surveillance powers

6) pass endless laws that no-one understands

Much better.

Comrade Stalin
 
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Why don't we propose some short and snappy. like

"I pledge to

1) ceaselessly meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations

2) add large amounts to the federal and state debts

3) lie about my personal and business life

4) advance the opportunity for graft and corruption for myself and my family

5) try to increase police and surveillance powers

6) pass endless laws that no-one understands

Much better.

Comrade Stalin

Democrats have already made that pledge and they are living up to it.
 
Why, yes, as a matter of fact we have. Tired drivel is tired drivel, whether it comes from the Republicans or the Democrats. Personally, I'm tired of drivel. Where is the party that is willing to do what is right for America, regardless of what is right for the party? Searching, searching........

Oh! Is that one?

Nope. Just another partisan saying that the other party is just as bad.

I have such a party...to bad we are state party, not national ( yet..working on that)
 
Exactly what do you consider to be "right" for America?

Quit coming up with pie in the sky plans that promise something for nothing and balance the federal budget.

Put a damper on the runaway costs of health care, which is a large part of the runaway cost of the federal government.

Put an end to illegal immigration. Work together to come up with a plan that works instead of blaming the problem on the other guy.

Stop launching expensive military adventures against nations that don't pose a threat to us.

Work to bring American jobs back to America.

Stop the foolish us vs. them mentality and work together to find practical solutions to the problems we face.

Pass some real election reform so that it doesn't take millions in bribe money to run for office.

That would be a good start, at least.
 
Quit coming up with pie in the sky plans that promise something for nothing and balance the federal budget.

Put a damper on the runaway costs of health care, which is a large part of the runaway cost of the federal government.

Put an end to illegal immigration. Work together to come up with a plan that works instead of blaming the problem on the other guy.

Stop launching expensive military adventures against nations that don't pose a threat to us.

Work to bring American jobs back to America.

Stop the foolish us vs. them mentality and work together to find practical solutions to the problems we face.

Pass some real election reform so that it doesn't take millions in bribe money to run for office.

That would be a good start, at least.

your wrong, if you cut taxes buy trillions, and cut millions in spending...you get balance...right? of course you don't even need to offset the tax cuts...or touch....
 
That would be a good start, at least.

I'm going to whittle that down and condense it....

  • Balanced budgets
  • HC reform
  • Immigration reform
  • No Wars
  • Job creation
  • Bi-partisanship
  • Election reform

Let me know if you would like to change any of that... because it's totally useless and I'll explain why:

If anyone here would NOT like to see those seven problems solved, speak up... Otherwise we can all presume to be in total agreement that something needs to be done to achieve those goals.

Agreeing about what is "right" for America gets us absolutely nowhere because we so ardently disagree on how to achieve those goals.

Like I said, knowing what is "right" for American is totally useless. Politicians on both sides can agree what is "right" for America in that context but unlike you're explanation, they are looking at the "how" and standing with the party they believe has the best answer to those questions.

Chiding politicians for standing with their party rather than doing what's "right" for America is a logical fallacy know as a thought terminating cliche;

Thought terminating cliche: a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance. Though the phrase in and of itself may be valid in certain contexts, its application as a means of dismissing dissent or justifying fallacious logic is what makes it thought-terminating.

Cognitive dissonance: an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance. They do this by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and actions. Dissonance is also reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying.

So while it might make you feel like you're above the partisanship to utter meaningless platitudes about how politicians should do what is "right" for America, it's totally useless and even counter productive.
 
I'm going to whittle that down and condense it....

  • Balanced budgets
  • HC reform
  • Immigration reform
  • No Wars
  • Job creation
  • Bi-partisanship
  • Election reform

Let me know if you would like to change any of that... because it's totally useless and I'll explain why:

If anyone here would NOT like to see those seven problems solved, speak up... Otherwise we can all presume to be in total agreement that something needs to be done to achieve those goals.

Perhaps it could be said that everyone here would like to see those seven problems solved. Unfortunately, this is just an internet forum, nothing more than a bull session involving people who live all over the world and have differing outlooks. We have no power to do anything much to solve any of the items above. We do have our power to vote, but most of the time we're just voting for the lesser of the evils.

The people we send to Washington, the ones who are supposed to be representing our interests (which involves, as you said, addressing the seven items above) are not, in the main at least, at all interested in addressing what works. They are interested either in gaining power, or in retaining power, and in doing the bidding of their sponsors. If they really worked together with the idea of finding practical, not ideological, answers, then they would have achieved wonders by now, the federal budget would be balanced, illegal immigration would have ended decades ago, and we wold not have attacked a nation that posed no threat to us.
 
If they really worked together with the idea of finding practical, not ideological, answers, then they would have achieved wonders by now, the federal budget would be balanced, illegal immigration would have ended decades ago, and we wold not have attacked a nation that posed no threat to us.

The Fallacy of Wishful Thinking: the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence, rationality or reality.

Politicians have been working together (compromising) for decades on end without ever solving the problems we face, yet you think ideology is the problem and it's the fault of rigid ideologues that these problems are not solved... If you were talking about the ideology of Pragmatism, and the ideologues who espouse it, I would be inclined to agree with you but instead you are praising the ideology of Pragmatism (without stating as much) and claiming it's all the other ideologies that have failed to produce results.

Argument to moderation: An individual demonstrating the false compromise fallacy implies that the positions being considered represent extremes of a continuum of opinions, and that such extremes are always wrong, and the middle ground is always correct.

Sound familiar? It should... That's the foundation of your argument, the source of your cognitive dissonance, and the reason you've accepted a thought terminating cliche as common sense.

We can get into the business of what is "practical" another time and even if you choose not to take what I've said seriously, I'm confident there are others who will.
 
The Fallacy of Wishful Thinking: the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence, rationality or reality.

Politicians have been working together (compromising) for decades on end without ever solving the problems we face, yet you think ideology is the problem and it's the fault of rigid ideologues that these problems are not solved... If you were talking about the ideology of Pragmatism, and the ideologues who espouse it, I would be inclined to agree with you but instead you are praising the ideology of Pragmatism (without stating as much) and claiming it's all the other ideologies that have failed to produce results.

It isn't so much ideology, as it is party. The ideology of the two parties, despite what they say, isn't all that different. The party ideology is really to keep "their" party in power, or to get it in power. The politicians have not been working together, which is why they haven't solved any of the challenges we are facing. The goal of the Republicans just now is to get into power. The goal of the Democrats is to keep it. It is not so much a matter of ideology as it is my team against your team mentality.

But, yes, expecting the current politicians to actually work together to solve problems in a practical and workable way is wishful thinking. You're right about that.

Argument to moderation: An individual demonstrating the false compromise fallacy implies that the positions being considered represent extremes of a continuum of opinions, and that such extremes are always wrong, and the middle ground is always correct.

Sound familiar? It should... That's the foundation of your argument, the source of your cognitive dissonance, and the reason you've accepted a thought terminating cliche as common sense.

Are you seriously arguing that extremism and unbending ideology is the way to solve problems? Surely, I misunderstand your argument.

We can get into the business of what is "practical" another time and even if you choose not to take what I've said seriously, I'm confident there are others who will.

If it works, it is practical. If it doesn't solve problems and meet challenges, it is not practical, regardless of the ideology or who gets the credit.

Yes, I take you seriously most of the time. I can see that you read and understand my posts.
 
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But, yes, expecting the current politicians to actually work together to solve problems in a practical and workable way is wishful thinking.
It was you that said, "politics is compromise", so you must understand that damn near every problem we face has already been dealt with through the very action you claim will fix the problems, compromise.

So despite all the compromises that have taken place, these problems persist but you still think compromise is the solution...

Ignoring the fact that compromise is responsible for creating and/or continuing the problems we face while simultaneously insisting that compromise can fix the same problems is an example of cognitive dissonance.

Are you seriously arguing that extremism and unbending ideology is the way to solve problems? Surely, I misunderstand your argument.
False Dilemma Fallacy: involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options.

We see this fallacy a lot around here. If someone criticizes Democrats, Democrat supporters automatically assume the person being critical is supportive of the Republicans when in fact, they could be equally critical of both parties.

What you did not consider was the possibility that I was not making an argument in favor of anything, I was only pointing out the logical fallacy behind the idea that compromise always leads to a favorable outcome.

If it works, it is practical.
Pragmatists wish to exclude other ideological considerations because they wish to avoid morality.

Pragmatism is an "ends justify the means" ideology which states that any action taken to achieve a goal is moral, so long as the desired result was accomplished.

If a homeless man needs a dollar and you do not have any money, you can knock down a little old lady, steal a dollar out of her purse, hand it to the homeless man, and the Pragmatist will say that it was a moral act because it achieved the desired result.

Furthermore, such a rationalization for ignoring ideological principles leads to the fallacy of retrospective determinism, dismissing unintended consequences as inevitable rather than a consequence of the action.

This could be one of the reasons why you see compromise as a solution to the problems that persist due to previous compromises, you have written off the consequences as having not been caused by the action.

So let me ask you, in stating, "If it works, it is practical", do you consider doing what is moral, ethical, and just to be impractical if the desired goal is not obtained?

Conversely, if immoral, unethical, and unjust actions achieve the desired result, are they practical?

I can see that you read and understand my posts.
I didn't bother reading that last sentence because I didn't understand what you were talking about. :)
 
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