Republican economics Lehman starts to fail!

[Libsmasher]

The problem is that the US Government will give billions of dollars to these thieving bastards when one third of the working population strugges on $9 or less per hour.

Fiction.

And republicans seem to think that giving money to help the poor is an evil pursuit.

Silliness.

 

[Libsmasher]

[]Moderators please consider this:[/b]


multiple personal attacks

repeated personal insults

not one single statement on topic in this post[/color]

It isn't a personal attack - you simply don't know what you're talking about. Present you economic credentials now - do you have any? Did you ever even take econ 101? Your posts on economics are simply loud-mouth rants about the republicans.

 

[top gun]

BigRob;61709]It is everyone's fault. The housing bubble can be dated back to the 70s and can even be argued it only expanded under the Fed policies under Clinton...

You know Rob at some point you guys have to stop saying... IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT no matter what mess you guys get yourselves into!!! The economy was great under President Clinton. I'm 51 now and I remember it fondly.

People like John McCain's chief economic advisor Phil Graham invented things like the ENRON loophole. It's they who pushed for deregulation all around. If things had worked you'd be breaking your arm patting yourself on the back. But it didn't so you're facing some accountability. That's what happens.

And no, I do not think you can blame the Iraq War for high gas prices. Doing so ignores the fact that we at the same time had lack of OPEC Spare Capacity, Nigerian production problems, and one of the lowest inventories since 1974, none of which were related to much to the War. You will further notice that even post invasion, oil prices remained mostly stable...

There you go again. You're just not being genuine. You know that instability in the middle east raises prices. I'll be absolutley in agreement with you that oil prices could have went up some do to other reasons other than the Iraq invasion & occupation and all the extra saber rattling against Iran.

Maybe even up to double the price before the invasion for a time. But the rest and that is a whole lot is our Iraq debocale. And the fact that in itself was lie driven makes it even more unessasary & tradgic. BUSH BLEW IT!

Of course, it was the Republicans who regulated giving out crappy mortgages to everyone right? It was the Republicans who changed the way the FED rated banks right? It was the Republicans who enacted new FED policies that extended the housing bubble right?

You guys always try to get away with this. Isn't this the same argument you use about 9-11 even though a Republican George Bush was fully at the helm at the time? You guys had all the power. the Executive & BOTH branches of Congress. Sack up and just admit you guys did a poor job. You're not the devil... you just made mistakes.

I saw the rally, he said he believed the economy was fundamentally strong because the American worker is fundamentally strong. He then went on to state we have a major crisis. I am sure you already knew that of course, because obviously you are so well informed.

Dude I saw it too... he was so lost.

McCain and the Republicans are trying to have it both ways. They don't want to be seen too close to Bush... yet they must proceed with his policies. They say... Who the HELL screwed all this stuff up! When it was obviously them in charge.

They're trying to sell running against themselves. Hopefully people aren't that stupid but you never know.

Hey I've said it before. If you want to keep doing the same things economically and just add in a little quicker trigger finger on War... McCain/Palin is your ticket! I think it's stupid.

 

[BigRob]

You know Rob at some point you guys have to stop saying... IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT no matter what mess you guys get yourselves into!!! The economy was great under President Clinton. I'm 51 now and I remember it fondly.

Maybe you missed the "it is everyone's fault" comment. That said, it is easily arguable that the President has little to do with the economy. For example, Clinton presided over the technology and internet boom. That was quite the hard economy to manage.

I assume Obama will magically create another tech boom? The tech bubble was already bursting when Clinton left office, yet we blame Bush. It is not one person's fault. It is everyone's fault.

People like John McCain's chief economic advisor Phil Graham invented things like the ENRON loophole. It's they who pushed for deregulation all around. If things had worked you'd be breaking your arm patting yourself on the back. But it didn't so you're facing some accountability. That's what happens.

Since deregulation means that banks are ranked based on how many crappy loans they give out right? If you think the banking sector was not government regulated throughout all this you are mistaken. Deregulation surely does not mean that the government comes in and bails them out either.

There you go again. You're just not being genuine. You know that instability in the middle east raises prices. I'll be absolutley in agreement with you that oil prices could have went up some do to other reasons other than the Iraq invasion & occupation and all the extra saber rattling against Iran.

Instability in the Middle East will rise prices some yes. But let us look at the history:

November 2002 - $25.36
March 12, 2003 - $37.87 (war is about to start)
March 19, 2003 - $29.88
March 28, 2003 - $30.16 (war is already underway)
Early 2007 - $60.00 area (war has been on for years, all other factors coming into play, so I dont think you can account this to the war)

Lead-up and destabilization is present in all of these dates, yet the oil price remains relative stable. Now I will be more than happy to give you a $12 dollar increase due to the war, but then you must account for the then $100 dollar increase on top of this... I did account for this, with the other reasons listed in my previous post.

Maybe even up to double the price before the invasion for a time. But the rest and that is a whole lot is our Iraq debocale. And the fact that in itself was lie driven makes it even more unessasary & tradgic. BUSH BLEW IT!

See above for actual oil prices.

You guys always try to get away with this. Isn't this the same argument you use about 9-11 even though a Republican George Bush was fully at the helm at the time? You guys had all the power. the Executive & BOTH branches of Congress. Sack up and just admit you guys did a poor job. You're not the devil... you just made mistakes.

I did not blame Bush for 9/11. I do not place blame solely on Clinton. It has been a serious of blunders for years in our foreign policy and bureaucracy that enabled it.

Dude I saw it too... he was so lost.

McCain and the Republicans are trying to have it both ways. They don't want to be seen too close to Bush... yet they must proceed with his policies. They say... Who the HELL screwed all this stuff up! When it was obviously them in charge.

They're trying to sell running against themselves. Hopefully people aren't that stupid but you never know.

Hey I've said it before. If you want to keep doing the same things economically and just add in a little quicker trigger finger on War... McCain/Palin is your ticket! I think it's stupid.

McCain has and does vote against Bush on many issues. 90% of the time he is a Republican, and you say that is bad. 100% of the time Obama is votes with the party, and you say he is change? That is not change...

And, if you think Obama will pull us completely out of Iraq, you are mistaken. Further, many economists argue that his proposed tax cuts will destroy an already weak economy... is that the "change" we want.

 

[top gun]

BigRob;61780]Maybe you missed the "it is everyone's fault" comment. That said, it is easily arguable that the President has little to do with the economy. For example, Clinton presided over the technology and internet boom. That was quite the hard economy to manage.

Yeah but see it's not. For 6 of the last 7+ years Republicans had 100% domination and control of everything. So that dog won't hunt.

President Clinton dealt with both good & bad things that effect economies at home & internationally but he had the "It's the economy stupid" focus from day one on paying down our debt and basically just a good sound plan.

I assume Obama will magically create another tech boom? The tech bubble was already bursting when Clinton left office, yet we blame Bush. It is not one person's fault. It is everyone's fault.

Dude... come on... you know we could sit here and type for hours about the Bush economic, spending, made up War fandangos. Bush was lousy.

And it's not "magic" to see Green Technology or other advancing fields do what the former tech boom did. In special battery development alone they've done more in the last year than probably the previous 10.

Senator Obama is intelligent (and that's a change we can believe in). He'll stay on a comprehensive approach that gets us back where we need to be. Will it be easy with all this Bush debt... Hell no! But someone has to try and more Bush in a McSame ain't doin' nothin' good... except maybe selling bullets & bombs.

Since deregulation means that banks are ranked based on how many crappy loans they give out right? If you think the banking sector was not government regulated throughout all this you are mistaken. Deregulation surely does not mean that the government comes in and bails them out either.

It was just on TV last night about how ever since the late 90's Republicans (McSame's economic guru Phil Graham as poster boy) have pushed relentlessly for massive deregulation. And as far as bailouts right or wrong... who's deciding to do that... that would be George Bush... and he's the leader of what Political PARTY? That would be Republican.

Instability in the Middle East will rise prices some yes. But let us look at the history:

November 2002 - $25.36
March 12, 2003 - $37.87 (war is about to start)
March 19, 2003 - $29.88
March 28, 2003 - $30.16 (war is already underway)
Early 2007 - $60.00 area (war has been on for years, all other factors coming into play, so I dont think you can account this to the war)

Lead-up and destabilization is present in all of these dates, yet the oil price remains relative stable. Now I will be more than happy to give you a $12 dollar increase due to the war, but then you must account for the then $100 dollar increase on top of this... I did account for this, with the other reasons listed in my previous post.

It wasn't the initial going over that eventually spiked things so much it was the impression that we are never going to leave and the additional saber rattling that went on with Iran. And I've already agreed with some of your other factors as well.

I did not blame Bush for 9/11. I do not place blame solely on Clinton. It has been a serious of blunders for years in our foreign policy and bureaucracy that enabled it.

Blame is a tough word. Do I know Bush did not take some Intel as seriously as he should have? We all know that now. But that's not my problem with Republicans on security. My problem is they wrap themselves in the flag and break their arms pointing the finger at everyone else as "not ready"... not "national security minded enough"... "you'll die if the Democrats are in control"... while when they're fully at the helm and on guard when we have the worst terrorist attack on US soil in US history.

If they'd just shut up all their BS propaganda I'd probably be able go along with ya on this one.

McCain has and does vote against Bush on many issues. 90% of the time he is a Republican, and you say that is bad. 100% of the time Obama is votes with the party, and you say he is change? That is not change...

John McCain has voted with disastrous George Bush policy OVER 90% (really like 95%) of the time.

The disingenuous trick your side is trying to play on the American people is that you know the reality is the other 5%-10% of the time when McCain voted against basically any Republican policy that was way back before he Flip Flopped over to complete George Bush policy to get his nomination.

Fact is the John McCain of 2000 wouldn't even vote for the John McCain of today and you know it.

And to clarify the word "CHANGE" that means a new direction. What you are so hopeful for is that the American people are so stupid that they just can't figure out that putting a turd in a new gift box... is still the exact same turd and smells just as bad.

And, if you think Obama will pull us completely out of Iraq, you are mistaken. Further, many economists argue that his proposed tax cuts will destroy an already weak economy... is that the "change" we want.

Senator Obama will pull out light years faster than McCain. He may leave a small base or two but I think it's much more likely he'll camp mostly just outside Iraq. If we could even fairly quickly cut our commitment in half including shoring up our forces in Afghanistan that would be a huge help. I know it's listed that the troops themselves are donating to his campaign 6 to 1 over McCain.

On the economy I'm sorry I have to reject the... things suck but we can't do anything to try and help because things might get suckier, approach.

We can do better than this... trust me!

 

[Federal Farmer]

You know Rob at some point you guys have to stop saying... IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT no matter what mess you guys get yourselves into!!! The economy was great under President Clinton. I'm 51 now and I remember it fondly.

Of course it was good, he inherited it from Ronaldus Magnus.

People like John McCain's chief economic advisor Phil Graham invented things like the ENRON loophole. It's they who pushed for deregulation all around. If things had worked you'd be breaking your arm patting yourself on the back. But it didn't so you're facing some accountability. That's what happens.

You mean the DEMOCRAT lobbyists? You mean the law that was signed into law by Bill Clinton? THAT Enron loophole? Perhaps you've forgotten exactly how closely Enron and the Clinton administration were tied? Don't you remember when Ron Browns plane went down, and Clinton had to issue a press release specifically to tell people that no Enron personnel were on the plane? They had to do that because almost every time you turned around Clinton and Gore et al were traveling with ENRON people, usually Ken Lay himself!

There you go again. You're just not being genuine. You know that instability in the middle east raises prices. I'll be absolutley in agreement with you that oil prices could have went up some do to other reasons other than the Iraq invasion & occupation and all the extra saber rattling against Iran.

Oh horsesh*t! The fact of the matter is that when inflation adjusted, from 1981 until 1999 actual gasoline prices FELL, and it wasn't until last year when fuel prices got back to where they were in 1981, which happened to be the same as it was in 1921. Instead of swilling the DNC sponsored Kool-Aide talking points as if they actually meant something, why don't you try looking at ACTUAL DATA so that you don't make yourself look like an idiot? The fact of the matter is that it was CONGRESS who instituted pricing regulations on oil companies in 1972 until the caps expired, and THAT is what caused the price spike in 1981. The fact of the matter is that EVERY time the government get's involved with price fixing, and that's exactly what it is, the create a bigger mess than we already had.

The war in Iraq doesn't, and didn't have ANYTHING to do with gas prices jumping, and in fact, if you'll remember, they didn't jump at all unit Hurricanes Katrina and Rita came along and destroyed over 100 rigs in the Gulf of Mexico (some of which STILL haven't been found at all) and 6 major refineries which are only now getting back up to full production! In September of 2006, Econobrowser showed that gasoline prices on June 13th of that year were at $2.86 and rose to $3.00 on Aug 4th, and then fell to $2.60 by Sept. 11th of that year. If Iraq is what's causing oil prices to go up, explain how they've EVER fallen at all since the invasion in April of 2003??

Maybe even up to double the price before the invasion for a time. But the rest and that is a whole lot is our Iraq debocale. And the fact that in itself was lie driven makes it even more unessasary & tradgic. BUSH BLEW IT!

And this is yet another example of your OUTRIGHT LIES! You haven't done ANY research into the subject, you don't know a DAMNED thing about it, so you just run around spewing the same old totally debunked *****.org, DU, Daily Kooks, Barry Hussein Obliviot LIES!

As for the rest of your garbage, more of the same. Lies, obfuscation, equivocation and prevarication because you're so totally invested in destroying America. Frankly I can't wait until McCain wins in November just so I can watch your head explode.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Yeah but see it's not. For 6 of the last 7+ years Republicans had 100% domination and control of everything. So that dog won't hunt.

It hunts PERFECTLY! For the 6 years that the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress, oil prices were LOW, it wasn't until San Fran Nan, Harry Skreed, and the rest of the "DO NOTHING" Congress took over that energy prices SPIKED! Coincidence? I THINK NOT!