Republican birther hokey pokey

[palerider]

You seem to have gotten belief in agreeable but unsubstantiated rumors down to a science. If you can just keep the rumor going you can convince yourself that Obie isn't the legitimate President and for some reason that appears to comfort you.

My issue isn't over obama, (we lived through carter and how much worse could obama be) my issue is over the system being in such a state that it appears that no american citizen has standing within the courts on a constitutional question. Such a state describes totalitarian regimes, not a constitutional republic where governmental powers derive from the people. If that doesn't bother you, or even give you pause to think, then your civics education in school was a failure.

Not pressing the questions because someone you like happens to be in the office opens the door for someone you really dislike down the road being able to invoke the very precedent that you established by giving your guy a pass.

And prove that I have a belief in rumors. You may not like me, but by now, you should at least recognize me as someone who does the necessary research with a cold logical eye. Show me some evidence that this issue is not just a tissue of rumors. I have looked and I can't find it. I see very carefully worded statements coming from both sides that neither serve to ask the right questions or answer them.

The questions are along the lines of the pro choice arguments asking when human life begins which can elicit all maner of rational responses rather than asking when an individual human being's life begins which can only be honestly answered one way. Show me a few examples of pointed hard question and answer with hard proof to corroborate the answer. Show me that and my questions are answered. If you can't show me that, then in addition to the first question, there now exists the question of why you believe.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

My issue isn't over obama, (we lived through carter and how much worse could obama be) my issue is over the system being in such a state that it appears that no american citizen has standing within the courts on a constitutional question. Such a state describes totalitarian regimes, not a constitutional republic where governmental powers derive from the people. If that doesn't bother you, or even give you pause to think, then your civics education in school was a failure.

Not pressing the questions because someone you like happens to be in the office opens the door for someone you really dislike down the road being able to invoke the very precedent that you established by giving your guy a pass.

And prove that I have a belief in rumors. You may not like me, but by now, you should at least recognize me as someone who does the necessary research with a cold logical eye. Show me some evidence that this issue is not just a tissue of rumors. I have looked and I can't find it. I see very carefully worded statements coming from both sides that neither serve to ask the right questions or answer them.

The questions are along the lines of the pro choice arguments asking when human life begins which can elicit all maner of rational responses rather than asking when an individual human being's life begins which can only be honestly answered one way. Show me a few examples of pointed hard question and answer with hard proof to corroborate the answer. Show me that and my questions are answered. If you can't show me that, then in addition to the first question, there now exists the question of why you believe.

I think the system is a mess and may very well not survive, but it won't turn on Obie's birth certificate. I'd like to see the kind of effort being wasted on Obie's birth certificate being spent instead on the hoax of 9/11.

 

[palerider]

I think the system is a mess and may very well not survive, but it won't turn on Obie's birth certificate.

What about the next guy who gets a pass. Or the next one?

I'd like to see the kind of effort being wasted on Obie's birth certificate being spent instead on the hoax of 9/11.

That is one where I have looked with the cold calculating eye and don't see the conspiracy. There are those who claim that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to have melted the steel frame of the buildings, but jet fuel, in combination with copious quantities of liquid oxygen and the presence of quite a bit of magnesium could certainly melt steel and those who believe the conspiracy also fail to calculate the factor of pressure from the weight above the point of impact upon the temperature necessary to cause the framework to collapse.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

What about the next guy who gets a pass. Or the next one?

Well what if there was asteroid that hit an atomic power plant? I mean we can pose dilemas forever, maybe it would be better to deal with the real issues instead of making up imaginary scenarios.

That is one where I have looked with the cold calculating eye and don't see the conspiracy. There are those who claim that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to have melted the steel frame of the buildings, but jet fuel, in combination with copious quantities of liquid oxygen and the presence of quite a bit of magnesium could certainly melt steel and those who believe the conspiracy also fail to calculate the factor of pressure from the weight above the point of impact upon the temperature necessary to cause the framework to collapse.

There's no point arguing it endlessly, I'm not aware of large quantities of liquid oxygen in the mix--where did that come from? Magnesium in the plane would not be nearly enough, and neither would the fuel, to pulverize the concrete footings of the buildings into powder. Nothing pulverizes concrete that way except high explosives. I think that there are many unanswered questions.

 

[Richard Savage]

BREAKING NEWS -

OBAMA: CLONE OF KENYA FINANCE MINISTER AMOS KIMUNYA
read more . . .
OBAMA: TEST-TUBE BABY NOT "NATURAL BORN" CITIZEN
read more . . .
OBAMA: SPACE ALIEN FROM PLANET REMULAC

Enqiring Minds Want To Know

 

[palerider]

Well what if there was asteroid that hit an atomic power plant? I mean we can pose dilemas forever, maybe it would be better to deal with the real issues instead of making up imaginary scenarios.

A possibly foriegn born president who can not be forced to prove precisely where he was born is a problem.

There's no point arguing it endlessly, I'm not aware of large quantities of liquid oxygen in the mix--where did that come from?

Airliners carry liquid oxygen on board to supply the cabin with oxygen when they go above a certain altitude. The burning temperature of jetfuel increases signifigantly in the presence of such a quanity of pure oxygen.

Magnesium in the plane would not be nearly enough, and neither would the fuel, to pulverize the concrete footings of the buildings into powder. Nothing pulverizes concrete that way except high explosives. I think that there are many unanswered questions.

I take it you have never seen the sort of violent exposion liquid oxygen is capable of. And how much magnesium burning at nearly 6000 degrees in the presence of liquid oxygen do you suppose it would take to melt steel under that sort of pressure?

 

[top gun]

Asking me to prove a negative? Good one. All I need do is ask the question. You were the one claiming that he has proved his american birth and yet, you can produce no evidence of it, nor will you ever be able to because obama has effectively sealed his past to an unprecedented level; and strangely enough, you do not even question that.

There's no tricky can't prove a negative about it.

Here's the President of the United States of America in office.

It's against the law for a person to hold that office if not American born.

Because anyone can make any insane claim... just like any other prosecution the burden of proof is on the one who wants to prosecute.

Prosecute away...

And yet again... Still the President!

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

A possibly foriegn born president who can not be forced to prove precisely where he was born is a problem.

Well, as soon as we have a problem with this we'll have to deal with it, so far there has been nothing to prove or even credibly suggest that Obie is foreign-born.

Airliners carry liquid oxygen on board to supply the cabin with oxygen when they go above a certain altitude. The burning temperature of jetfuel increases signifigantly in the presence of such a quanity of pure oxygen.
I take it you have never seen the sort of violent exposion liquid oxygen is capable of. And how much magnesium burning at nearly 6000 degrees in the presence of liquid oxygen do you suppose it would take to melt steel under that sort of pressure?

It would take more than an airliner--even if it was packed full of O2--to pulverize the foundations 5 stories underground.

 

[palerider]

There's no tricky can't prove a negative about it.

Here's the President of the United States of America in office.

It's against the law for a person to hold that office if not American born.

Because anyone can make any insane claim... just like any other prosecution the burden of proof is on the one who wants to prosecute.

Prosecute away...

And yet again... Still the President!

It is against the law for the president to do any number of things and yet, we have seen them break the law. If they will break the law while in office, what is to suggest that someone wouldn't break the law to get into office.

The fact is that he hasn't proved his american birth as you claimed and by now it should be evident to you that you are not going to be able to offer up any evidence of it. So as I said, your belief is an article of your faith, not based on any factual evidence. That was my point all along. Thanks for playing.

 

[palerider]

Well, as soon as we have a problem with this we'll have to deal with it, so far there has been nothing to prove or even credibly suggest that Obie is foreign-born.

The lack of a birth certificate indicating the hospital where he was born and the attending physician and the fact that he has spent more than a million dollars locking up his past from anyone who might want to check is a problem.

It would take more than an airliner--even if it was packed full of O2--to pulverize the foundations 5 stories underground.

Maybe you should investigate the physics of 110 floors and over 500,00 tons of steel and concrete falling straight down at roughly 124 miles per hour.

 

[top gun]

It is against the law for the president to do any number of things and yet, we have seen them break the law. If they will break the law while in office, what is to suggest that someone wouldn't break the law to get into office.

The fact is that he hasn't proved his american birth as you claimed and by now it should be evident to you that you are not going to be able to offer up any evidence of it. So as I said, your belief is an article of your faith, not based on any factual evidence. That was my point all along. Thanks for playing.

So like I said this is no secret... the accusation has been made... everyone knows that the law is being broken... prosecute away. Any proof whatsoever just present it.

OOPS... Yep... He's still the President.

 

[palerider]

So like I said this is no secret... the accusation has been made... everyone knows that the law is being broken... prosecute away. Any proof whatsoever just present it.

OOPS... Yep... He's still the President.

Ergo, a terrible problem with the system when a citizen doesn't have standing in the court on a constititonal question of such magnitude.

 

[Richard Savage]

It is doubtful that the Supreme Court will reverse its decision in Lujan v. National Wildlife Federation any time soon. (John Roberts, who argued the case for the government while serving in the Solicitor General's office, hasn't changed his view on "citizen standing" since becoming Chief Justice.) You'll find the doors to the courthouse rather narrow on this issue.

 

[top gun]

Ergo, a terrible problem with the system when a citizen doesn't have standing in the court on a constititonal question of such magnitude.

Any proof... any proof whatsoever that any crime has been committed?

Anything at all?

Nope... not a drop.

Still President of the United States of America.

 

[palerider]

Any proof... any proof whatsoever that any crime has been committed?

Anything at all?

Nope... not a drop.

Still President of the United States of America.

Maybe you should actually learn something about our legal system. Proof is not necessary to investigate a crime. Suspiciion is all that is required for an investigation. Proof comes out during the course of the investigation and trial.