Religion of Peace At It Again

[Coyote]

What you dont understand is that while Christianity calls upon its followers to

"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men"

Islam calls for the destruction of every authority instituted among men. While Christians are told to render unto ceasar that which is ceasars, Muslims are insructed

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, .... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

While Christianity dictates no particuliar form of government, Islam calls for the Islamic Caliphate applying the Shariah as the only source of law AND fighting to instill its authority over the whole of the earth.

Thats why with Christian Fundamentalism you primarily end up with self righteous, judgemental, blue haired old ladies who vacation in Israel. With Islamic fundamentalism you end up with a violent, worldwide Islamic campaign of jihad in the ways of allah. THE WORDS IN THE DOCTRINE!

While you post what God commanded the Jews to do to the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, thousands of years ago, I post what allah commands all his followers to do today, [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them...!!!!

Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. This is ridiculous. You are taking selected passages completely out of context in order to support what ever argument you wish to make. I can do the same thing with the bible - Sublime has provided many quotes. If you stripped them of context - you'd have the perfect reciepe for evil.

Just look at Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens. (note: many American preachers used this as a justification for slavery)

Context is important and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read within their context. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for violence, bloodshed and crualty - as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095.

Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history.

 

[Coyote]

Face it guy. You can't get through to apologists. If islamists killed off their entire families, they would not condemn islam. They are very quick to condemn Christianity for any and all reasons but not islam for any reason.

Almost every major religion in the world today has been hijacked by extremists and used to justify violence, war, murder and other religiously sanctioned horrors. History shows the truth of this.

I do not condemn Christianity any more then any other religion - I just refuse to allow it's particular horrors to go ignored.

 

[Coyote]

Notice theres not one telling Christians to "kill" or "fight" against the unbelievers.

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ

 

[vyo476]

Face it guy. You can't get through to apologists. If islamists killed off their entire families, they would not condemn islam.

If a black man killed my family I would not condemn all African Americans. Would you?

They are very quick to condemn Christianity for any and all reasons but not islam for any reason.

We're very quick to hold Christianity to the same standard you hold Islam to.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Face it guy. You can't get through to apologists. If islamists killed off their entire families, they would not condemn islam. They are very quick to condemn Christianity for any and all reasons but not islam for any reason.

Palerider!!! I have a question concerning your post.
Do you know personally that (US) Muslims are quick
to condemn Christianity? and I have a statement to
make.

Before there was the Oil control war in the Middle East.
There have always been Holy Wars going on for thousands
and thousands of years. These wars are waged by religious
partisans to propagate or defend their faith (including their
form of government).

This is why there is so many people with NO religion or
faith. Because its to much BS going on in these so-called
religious movements.

If islamists killed
off their entire families

IF is a big and a also incorrect word when giving an
example. Chris Benoit killed off his entire family, do
that make him a islamist? So should his remaining family
be condemned?, and as a Muslim I can't picture a Muslim
killing any member of his or her family members.

There will always be conflicts when it comes to religion.

 

[9sublime]

Face it guy. You can't get through to apologists. If islamists killed off their entire families, they would not condemn islam. They are very quick to condemn Christianity for any and all reasons but not islam for any reason.

No, I would not condemn Islam. I would condemn Islamic Extremism, but not all of Islam. Because it wasnt the peaceful Muslims who did it to my family.

And remember Palerider, I am not an apologist. I do not defend in any way what the bad guys of Islam are doing, I just try to defend the Muslims who have done nothing wrong.

 

[jb_1430]

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ

Seems that one is...

Thats the parable of ten Minas-

While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

Its a story about a King. Not a commandment to "kill them where you find them". You are only demonstrating my point.

Christianity has certainly had its bloody periods. Or does no one remember the Inquisition? How about the Age of Religious Warfare? How about what Christians did to the Western Hemisphere in the name of their faith?

If they could point to Christian doctrine that justified their actions, I would blame the doctrine. They couldnt, I dont. As well the present has much more of an impact on our daily lives than history from centuries ago.

Are you honestly naive enough to believe that this is because Islamic doctrine is "more" violent? Are you honestly naive enough to believe that Islam is the only cause (or even the biggest cause) of the violent jihad of the last few decades?

Have you read the koran and Haddiths? My views of Islam are based upon the reading of the doctrine. You have not.

 

[jb_1430]

Why don't you shut the hell up sometimes, and because you
don't listen is why nobody addresses your interpretations.
They are from far out left field, and nobody have to give you
a reply on something that you don't understand yourself.

How do you know that the so-called written documents is
by Muslims? In closing

I usually find I know
more about Islamic doctrine than the average muslim I run
into on the internet. jb-1430, in that quote you admitted
what you know is from the internet.

I am a Muslim jb, and you are a non-Muslim. Which means you
will NEVER know more about my religion & faith then I do.
So get out of being in denial. Stop faking like you know every
thing, and learn how to get out into reality to get real answers.

Formulate an arguement if you can,. That is one that addresses my points you feel compelled to respond to. This emotional response void of any content only demonstrates my point.
And I said the average Muslim I run into on the internet. I didnt say anything about where my knowledge came from other than it was the Koran, Haddiths and the writings of Islamic scholars. I simply have more discussions with muslims about religion on the internet, than I do here in Central Texas.
And I said I know more about the doctrine. YOUR "religion & faith" couldnt be more irrelevent to the discussion if you tried. Point to some doctrine that you base your beliefs upon and you might have a point, all though I doubt it.
And the only one in denial is you. In denial of the written word in the Koran and Haddiths. I'd probably do the same thing if I was a Muslim.

 

[Coyote]

Thats the parable of ten Minas-

While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

Its a story about a King. Not a commandment to "kill them where you find them". You are only demonstrating my point.



If they could point to Christian doctrine that justified their actions, I would blame the doctrine. They couldnt, I dont. As well the present has much more of an impact on our daily lives than history from centuries ago.



Have you read the koran and Haddiths? My views of Islam are based upon the reading of the doctrine. You have not.

Sorry, you are not allowed to put it into context in this game.

 

[jb_1430]

And once again you are ignoring the only point I am trying to prove. I am NOT trying to prove Islam does not have violent commands in it about infidels etc. My point is that IT DEPENDS ON WETHER OR NOT YOU INTERPET IT AS SUCH.

I understand just fine. Different interpretations of the doctrine are not an inherent part of the doctrine. The doctrine is what it is. An inherent component of Islam. Because some muslims choose not to follow the literal word of the doctrine doesnt negate its existance. There were people who identified themselves as Nazis, but that did not adopt Nazi doctrine of a totalitarian state, bent on expansion of the reich and extermination of all undesireables. That doesnt turn evil doctrine into anything other than what it is.

 

[9sublime]

But you accept that some Muslims lead a peaceful way of life, while others obviously do not?

 

[jb_1430]

Sorry, you are not allowed to put it into context in this game.

Context is always important. People always complain that my verses from the Koran are out of context, and yet they never have any context to point to.

 

[jb_1430]

But you accept that some Muslims lead a peaceful way of life, while others obviously do not?

Why do you continue with this arguement everytime I am critical of Islam. A criticism of the doctrine is not a criticism of the billions of Muslims. The doctrine remains the same whether it is followed or not.

 

[9sublime]

Oh ok I think we've been trying to prove two different points all along! Of course the doctrine has got a load of horrible violent stuff in it, but I was critising the thread title, because the peaceful followers of Islam are not 'at it again.'

 

[Coyote]

Context is always important. People always complain that my verses from the Koran are out of context, and yet they never have any context to point to.

It's the responsibility of the author to provide context. It is not the responsibility of the reader to go out and find it.