Religion of Peace At It Again

[Castle]

For all the Christians here, if someone killed another (innocent) person in the name of God, in a barbaric fashion etc. would you condemn his actions? Would you call him a Christian?

So why is it any different when a Muslim does it, why do you attack Islam as a whole and not the fundamentalist himself or the organization he is from?

Of course I would condemn his/her actions. Lets take it a step further. If he or she was a member of a global Christian organization whose purpose was to kill or convert all non Christians I would call on all true Christians to unite against this cancer before it grew to the point that it could not be stopped. I do not see this happening in present day Christianity. What I do see is a very well organized and funded group of extremist Muslims on a global scale that continues to grow and infiltrate western society with one purpose. To destroy it. So when a few Muslim extremists commit acts of terror one can no longer look upon these acts as isolated incidents as the events of the last decade prove they are not.

The overwhelming majority of moderate Muslims and their governments have done very little to combat these extremists, instead it is left up to the infidels (that would be us) to foot the bill and take the heat for our troubles. How convenient.

This is where the "bad rap" for moderate Muslims comes in. Is it fair? no. However, while responsibility for all the bad things happening in the Muslim world is being handed out, Muslims should be willing to accept their share.

-Castle

 

[9sublime]

The overwhelming majority of moderate Muslims and their governments have done very little to combat these extremists, instead it is left up to the infidels (that would be us) to foot the bill and take the heat for our troubles. How convenient.

This is because most Islamic countries are very poor, with corrupt governments with many inside supporters of terrorism. However, these governments, once again, don't represent the every day Muslim who has never committed a terror attack in his life.

This is where the "bad rap" for moderate Muslims comes in. Is it fair? no. However, while responsibility for all the bad things happening in the Muslim world is being handed out, Muslims should be willing to accept their share.

So one minute you complain that your country is the one who has to deal with terrorism and how unfair it is, but then the next minute fairness goes out of the window for Muslims? At least you agree that its not fair at all that ordinary Muslims take the blame.

However, you are still missing my point. Islamic extremism is not the same religion as normal Islam. Just like you do not follow Rev. Phelps and his crew, and I doubt you regard them as true Christians. However, if Phelps and co. started killing people, and gathering huge support while they did it, would you be out on the street, on the TVs all the time, denouncing what he had done?

No, you would probably sit back and decide that every levelheaded person knows what Phelps is doing is wrong and that you dont need to speak out yourself. You would let a few organizations do it for you in the most critical of times, just like the Muslim Council of Britain and various other organizations denounce attacks when they happen. However, you choose to convinenetly close your ears whenever Muslims denounce terror.

Normal Muslims shouldn't have to take the blame for the terrorists, just like you would not take the blame for Phelps killing people in the name of Christianity.

Do you take the blame for every child American forces kill in Afghanistan and Iraq? Well you should do, if normal Muslims have to take the blame for every innocent person killed by terrorists.

Its pure hypocrisy, just because your religion isn't getting tarred by such a huge brush, you feel you have the right to take a stab at Muslims all the time.

 

[jb_1430]

This is because most Islamic countries are very poor, with corrupt governments with many inside supporters of terrorism. However, these governments, once again, don't represent the every day Muslim who has never committed a terror attack in his life.

There is poverty and government corruption all around the world, and yet it is Muslims comitting the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks against civilians.

However, you are still missing my point. Islamic extremism is not the same religion as normal Islam. Just like you do not follow Rev. Phelps and his crew, and I doubt you regard them as true Christians.

???? Usually its refered to as Islamic Fundamentalism, because of their strict adherence to the written doctrine. And we could only be so lucky if Islam compelled Muslims to shout from the street corner that Allah hates fags.
The difference you apologist for Islam seem to be missing is that Islam dictates the form of government and law to be applied. The Islamic Caliphate. Christians "render unto ceasar, that which is ceasar's"

 

[Coyote]

Christians "render unto ceasar, that which is ceasar's"

No they don't. Look up Christian Dominionists. Look at how Christians are trying to influence politics and law in this country. They are no different. The only thing that protects us from them is that we have a secular constitution and a secular system of law put in place by some very wise people.

 

[jb_1430]

No they don't. Look up Christian Dominionists. Look at how Christians are trying to influence politics and law in this country. They are no different. The only thing that protects us from them is that we have a secular constitution and a secular system of law put in place by some very wise people.

If we had any Christian Dominionist commiting terrorist attacks you might have an arguement. We do not and you do not. As well the Dominionist advocate electing Christians into government offices whereas Islam advocates violent jihad to establish the caliphate.

 

[jb_1430]

You have the "see no evil" "hear no evil" bit down pretty good.

Ibn Khaldoon in the 14th century defined it as:

A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/Belief/Khilafah/one.html

Hassan al-Banna in 1928, it has spawned several offshoot organizations in the Middle East, dedicated to the credo:

"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

[2][3] The MB seeks to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state",[4] and ultimately to reestablish a Caliphate or unified Muslim state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

This religion is really a universal declaration of the freedom of man from servitude to other men and from servitude to his own desires, which is also a form of human servitude; it is a declaration that sovereignty belongs to God alone and that He is the Lord of all the worlds. It means a challenge to all kinds and forms of systems which are based on the concept of the sovereignty of man; in other words, where man has usurped the Divine attribute. Any system in which the final decisions are referred to human beings, and in which the sources of all authority are human, deifies human beings by designating others than God as lords over men. This declaration means that the usurped authority of God be returned to Him and the usurpers be thrown out-those who by themselves devise laws for others to follow, thus elevating themselves to the status of lords and reducing others to the status of slaves. In short, to proclaim the authority and sovereignty of God means to eliminate all human kingship and to announce the rule of the Sustainer of the universe over the entire earth.
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp

June 22, 2007
"One day my dear Muslims," shouted Anjem Choudary, "Islam will govern Britain!"...
"Brothers and sisters, make no mistake. Make no mistake. The British government, the queen, the MPs in this country, they are enemies to you, enemies to Allah and enemies to the Muslims."...
"Of course," he replied, "we want Islam to be a source of governance for all of mankind. And we also believe that one day America will be ruled by Islam."
Abu Saif is a member of the group Hizb ut-Tahrir, the Party of Liberation, which states its aim is to unify Muslims and establish the rule of Islamic law over the world.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56503

 

[jb_1430]

No they don't. Look up Christian Dominionists. Look at how Christians are trying to influence politics and law in this country. They are no different. The only thing that protects us from them is that we have a secular constitution and a secular system of law put in place by some very wise people.

I've read some on Christian dominionist and Ive NEVER seen anything to indicate that they dont believe they are to render to Ceasar, that which is Ceasars.

 

[9sublime]

There is poverty and government corruption all around the world, and yet it is Muslims comitting the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks against civilians.

In Africa, it is usually not under the name of Islam, and that is where most of the corrupt governments are. Sure, many of them are Muslims, but they are not holy wars like the insurgents from Iraq and Afghanistan. In south america all the governments are corrupt, and in Eastern Europe, and many countries in the Far East.
Don't spout rubbish.

???? Usually its refered to as Islamic Fundamentalism, because of their strict adherence to the written doctrine. And we could only be so lucky if Islam compelled Muslims to shout from the street corner that Allah hates fags.
The difference you apologist for Islam seem to be missing is that Islam dictates the form of government and law to be applied. The Islamic Caliphate. Christians "render unto ceasar, that which is ceasar's"

I am not an apoloigist for Islam. I hate organized religion, I just hate ignorance more. Can't you see that Islam and 'Islamic Fundamentalism' are two different religions in practice.

I love it how as soon as anyone tries to say that not every Muslim is a terrorist, Castle and Mark come running out of the bushes and call everyone an apologist.

 

[jb_1430]

In Africa, it is usually not under the name of Islam, and that is where most of the corrupt governments are. Sure, many of them are Muslims, but they are not holy wars like the insurgents from Iraq and Afghanistan. In south america all the governments are corrupt, and in Eastern Europe, and many countries in the Far East.
Don't spout rubbish.

???? You are making my point for me.

I am not an apoloigist for Islam. I hate organized religion, I just hate ignorance more. Can't you see that Islam and 'Islamic Fundamentalism' are two different religions in practice.

???? Well, two different versions of the same thing. Not sure of your point as I have not said they are the same.

I love it how as soon as anyone tries to say that not every Muslim is a terrorist, Castle and Mark come running out of the bushes and call everyone an apologist.

???? Thats not what you said.

 

[9sublime]

Sorry I misread a lot of your post. I agree with your first point, there is no denying that the majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims, but that the reason their governments do not speak out against it is because they are corrupt etc.

However, there are two different types of Islam, peaceful and fundamental. This is my point, that the RELIGION OF PEACE IS NOT AT IT AGAIN, but the fundamentalist are.

I dont understand what you mean by 'thats not what you said'. I am a sympathiser with Muslims who have done nothing wrong but get abuse for their terrorist counterparts, but I hate fundamentalists with a passion.

However, I do not apologise for Islam at any point. If you are part of an organized religion this **** is going to happen to you, and while its not fair at all, people like you are going to give them abuse for something they havent done.

 

[jb_1430]

The title of the thread was not Muslims at it again. He is criticizing the religion. You seem to interpret that as criticism of all muslims.

Sorry I misread a lot of your post. I agree with your first point, there is no denying that the majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims, but that the reason their governments do not speak out against it is because they are corrupt etc.

However, there are two different types of Islam, peaceful and fundamental. This is my point, that the RELIGION OF PEACE IS NOT AT IT AGAIN, but the fundamentalist are.

I dont understand what you mean by 'thats not what you said'. I am a sympathiser with Muslims who have done nothing wrong but get abuse for their terrorist counterparts, but I hate fundamentalists with a passion.

However, I do not apologise for Islam at any point. If you are part of an organized religion this **** is going to happen to you, and while its not fair at all, people like you are going to give them abuse for something they havent done.

 

[9sublime]

NO, my point is that the 'religion of peace' is not at it again. A religion cloaked under the same name is 'at it again', and this religion is Islamic extremism. They are in practice two totally different religions.

 

[palerider]

NO, my point is that the 'religion of peace' is not at it again. A religion cloaked under the same name is 'at it again', and this religion is Islamic extremism. They are in practice two totally different religions.

One group of muslims is following the orders of their prophet to the letter. The other group is ignoring the orders of their prophet. Which group is more extreme?

Radical islam is islam.

 

[Coyote]

One group of muslims is following the orders of their prophet to the letter. The other group is ignoring the orders of their prophet. Which group is more extreme?

Radical islam is islam.

What is true Christianity then?

You have the following extortions from Jesus:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (ie all non-Christians) must be killed. Acts 3:23

That doesn't even begin to touch upon all the bloody mayhem and extortions throughtout the OT and all the bloody plans God has for you in the NT if you fall short of any number of things.

Both the Quran and the Bible are bloody awful, violent books with a lot in it to satisfy the most rabid radical. They are easily perverted. What's forgotten are the many passages on compassion and charity that are there as well. Each person picks what they want to believe.

 

[Castle]

I love it how as soon as anyone tries to say that not every Muslim is a terrorist, Castle and Mark come running out of the bushes and call everyone an apologist.

Pardon me?! I never said that every Muslim is a terrorist nor did I accuse you of being an apologist for them. I was simply attempting to explain why I think Muslims in general get a bad rap as a result of the actions of their extremist counterparts. In my opinion, some of it is well deserved while the rest is not. I'll give you an example. Remember the Denmark cartoons that brought the Muslim world to a violent frenzy? CARTOONS caused riots in the streets and death threats. If the Muslim world brought to bare HALF this venom against the radical organizations that gave them this reputation we would probably be having a very different debate right now.

-Castle