Raise Taxes or Granny Gets It

Why? What reason would you have for wanting to do that? America went through those years. We saw the elderly die from starvation and no health care. We saw people dying in the hospital parking lots. We saw children in school who were hungry and unfed.
[]

Just to be clear: I have no desire to go back to the 1940s and 1950s. It was not the happy and cheerful time you think it was, except for a very lucky few.

Links?

Because a google search failed to find any articles at all about the history of starvation in America. Its as if starvation of the weak has never been a problem except for a short period of time during the great depression (when farmers had a surplus but the gov bought it to keep food prices high. Even then I see no evidence that it was the elderly who suffered while the young fed themselves)

So lets skip the great depression and lets skip isolated instances and then lets find out of the starvation of the weak was ever a problem in America while others prospered.

Similarly a search for "hospital dying parking" found only examples of a person dying in 2011.
 
Werbung:
actually you don't know that...have you seen some of the Republican ideas? they would basically shut down every part of the government to fund not defaulting. I doubt the ideas would pass...but thats some of there plans.

A temporary shut down has happened before and if it happened again it would make politicians find the cuts they need to find.

Defaulting is far far worse than a shut down it would be worth it if it came to that. But it never needs to. Obama just needs to make some cuts.

RE: SS. No pub is saying we need to shut it down to fix this problem. They might want to phase it out over time or to temporarily cut the admin budget but that is not the same a just shutting it down as Rengel and others would have you believe.
 
See, I like what you just said: "we realize we do not have unlimited money."

Now that we agree that money is finite. . .
Can you see my point about the fact that, the wealthy getting wealthier at the expense of the middle class and the poor is not sustainable for ANYONE?

Since money is finite. . .any time money accumulates in the top 2% of the population, that money is coming from the bottom 98%. . .mostly the bottom 50% though!

And you still want the "deficit reduction" and "budget balancing" to be done ONLY on the back of the bottom 50%, the elderly, the veterans, and the disable?

Can't you see that, somehow, part of that "great plan" must include some "reduction in wealth" through "additional taxing" among those people who hold an ever increasing amount of the wealth?

Money is finite (except when more is printed) but wealth is not. When the economy is good and the wealthy get wealthier statistically everyone else gets wealthier too. And when the econ is bad and the wealthy get less wealthy everyone else gets less wealthy too. They do it at different rates but that does not mean that it is at the expense of each other at all.

If a wealthy person does get rich at the expense of another person then prosecute him but simply taxing him more is not justice - except for the politician getting the tax money. And for those wealthy who are not doing it at the expense of others ( oprah, obama, etc) then taxing them more because some other wealthy person is a cheat is wrong.
 
Wrong, more jobs are created by small businesses than by big businesses. More jobs are loss because of big business wanting their stock to go up.
I trust middle class people starting a business a lot more than big corporations, especially in the U.S.

And how many tax breaks can you take for starting one of those businesses? You seem to be arguing against all these "loopholes."

I guess I should ask you, what is your definition of "middle class"?

And you are wrong again about the poor not creating jobs: Have you ever heard of the "grey economy?" That is a huge part of the economy that deals and is basically kept alive by poor people, or lower middle class people. It includes all the second hand stores, the second hand cars, the cheap fast food, the "trailer home" industry. . .

Where does all that stuff come from? It is produced to sell to people who are "richer" than them, and then sold off in second hand stores. If there was demand for such products from the rich, then there would be no product for the poor at the second hand store.

ONE poor person may not hire 10 people to begin a new business. . . but poor people are CONSUMERS who create a demand. . . which creates jobs. Okay, they won't create a demand for Mercedes or Lexus, they won't create a demand for Broadway shows or for 5 stars hotels or restaurants, but they do create a demand for fast food, for Motel 6 types, for used cars.

They won't create demand for anything unless they can get a job and an income....which doesn't typically come from the lower classes...after all, how many times has a "poor" person given you a job?

You're correct, unfortunately, big businesses prefer to take their investment money abroad. . .where they create jobs for another economy!

I have already commented that I feel, and I think economists would generally agree, that in the long term, all that capital comes back to the United States.

And I never suggested it should be done solely on the back of the "rich," although most of the drama we are facing today is due to the Bush tax cuts and the huge profits made by the defense industry because of Bush's ridiculous, illegal war in Iraq.

1) The war was not "illegal."
2) The Bush tax cuts cost around $250 billion a year. That is what you think caused all our problems?
3) I don't see how a company in the defense industry making profits caused anything.

And, you can't poor juice out of a dry turnip!
And, Obama has volunteered $2.00 (even $3.00) cuts for every $1.00 in tax increase! Not exactly doing it "solely" on the backs of the "rich!"

Great, so we will raise the debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion, and cut the budget by maybe $300 billion or so a year...leaving us with about a trillion more dollars to find to balance the budget. Where do you suggest that comes from? The "rich"?

And why is it that Republicans think that it is blasphemy to go back to a level of taxation that PROVED to be beneficial for every one and for the economy?

If you can provide evidence that higher tax rates were the cause of a good economy then I am all ears.

It is simply not logical to state, "In 1995 we have X tax rates and good economy, therefore tax rates are the cause of the good economy."
 
most of the drama we are facing today is due to the Bush tax cuts

And why is it that Republicans think that it is blasphemy to go back to a level of taxation that PROVED to be beneficial for every one and for the economy?

Contrary to what you have heard the Bush tax cuts left more money in the hands of the poor and increased government revenue from the rich.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/lying_about_bushs_tax_cuts.html

They were also more progressive. They lowered taxes for all but lowered them more for the poor.

http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2010/07/under-bush-tax-cuts-rich-paid-more-in.html

http://www.american.com/archive/200...zine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/bush-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-actually-had-the-rich-paying-more-taxes/

The level of taxation that proves itself to be best is the one that burdens people the least.
 
Because balanced budgets limit government and both dems and pubs want more power when they are in power and less power for the others when they are not.

That does explain a lot of things, doesn't it? Yet, we have partisans on both sides who really believe that their party will solve the problems that beset this nation.
 
That does explain a lot of things, doesn't it? Yet, we have partisans on both sides who really believe that their party will solve the problems that beset this nation.

Sometimes I am not so sure that either party thinks it will solve problems.

Maybe they know that many problems are made up problems so they don't think there are problems to solve. Maybe they don't think problems are solvable. Maybe they don't actually care about solving problems as long as they can line their pockets. Maybe they know that they can't solve a problem unless they are first elected so they make a bargain with the devil to get elected thinking they will solve the problem later but later never comes. Maybe they think they could just solve the problem if the other party would just stay out of the way but that too never happens.

Pragmatically, has congress ever really solved any problem?
 
Werbung:
Sometimes I am not so sure that either party thinks it will solve problems.

The leaders may not. Many voters seem to think so.

Maybe they know that many problems are made up problems so they don't think there are problems to solve.

Made up problems are a lot easier to solve, and doing so does help meet the real goal: Getting/keeping power.

Maybe they don't think problems are solvable.

some of them probably aren't, but they make for good talking points.
Maybe they don't actually care about solving problems as long as they can line their pockets.

That one is plausible.
Maybe they know that they can't solve a problem unless they are first elected so they make a bargain with the devil to get elected thinking they will solve the problem later but later never comes.

Or, perhaps that well heeled devil doesn't want the problem solved.

Maybe they think they could just solve the problem if the other party would just stay out of the way but that too never happens.

Or, at least, want the constituency to think do.

Pragmatically, has congress ever really solved any problem?


There must be some examples.
 
Back
Top