Patraeus Predictable

[USMC the Almighty]

Stop ...its pointless now to argue or debate with anybody still willing to defend bush!! Even the blind could see this man lies at will!

Bush puts his pions in charge and then quotes them ...its easy to see!! Thats what general BETRAY-US was all about!!

The fact is ...this man is crowing over success when over 1,800 Iraqis were killed last month!!

Like one person said ...bush is such liar he would take credit for .."gravity"!!

Well now that you've left no doubt as to where you recite your talking points from (moveon.org). Do you think saying General "Betray-Us" makes you look like you have any clue you're talking about? Do you think that calling a U.S. Army General and commander of the MNF-I a traitor is going to help convince people that you are right?

Berreal (and popeye as well), what's the point of coming here if you aren't going to try to have a civil discussion or semi-intelligent exchange of ideas? I mean, you to don't even pretend to have an open mind. It's just straight partisanship right down the line with you guys. Nothing new. Nothing substantial. Nothing intelligent. Just spewing the tired old "Bush lied, people died" lines over and over again.

 

[Coyote]

Is that anything like algore claiming to have invented the internet?

He didn't. That was another quote that was taken entirely out of context and gained a life of it's own.

 

[berreal]

Well now that you've left no doubt as to where you recite your talking points from (moveon.org). Do you think saying General "Betray-Us" makes you look like you have any clue you're talking about? Do you think that calling a U.S. Army General and commander of the MNF-I a traitor is going to help convince people that you are right?

Berreal (and popeye as well), what's the point of coming here if you aren't going to try to have a civil discussion or semi-intelligent exchange of ideas? I mean, you to don't even pretend to have an open mind. It's just straight partisanship right down the line with you guys. Nothing new. Nothing substantial. Nothing intelligent. Just spewing the tired old "Bush lied, people died" lines over and over again.

Oh please .... what news media or news outlet didn't have that pharse on their front page a few days ago? The fact is ...you ...a blathering right wing kook ..know more about moveon than I do.

General Betray-us comes back with a well predicted gift wrapped talking point for bush. And bush who now has no credibility ... hides behind it with his ...gee ...look what I found speech!!

This isn't 2002/2003 when people weren't quite sure who bush is!!

We went into Iraq based on a series of the same ..."look what I found" lies!

But given that the failure that now prevails there ...the fact that we even need a "surge" ...is that the fault of the generals?

Must be you kook ..because bush takes responsibility for nothing bad!

Last time I remember you freaks had no problem berating a solidier yourself.... berating a man who put his life on the line for America ...his name is John Kerry!!

Debating is pointless with kooks and rampant hypocrites like you people!

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Debating is pointless with kooks and rampant hypocrites like you people!

Then why don't you help yourself to the door. The established members here actually enjoy debating and discussing politics. We have a good mix of established liberals (Coyote, 9sublime, vyo and others) and a handful of conservatives (myself, palerider, etc.) who usually prefer to actually discuss politics and philosophies than just call people "kooks and rampant hypocrites like you people" and call the debate over.

If you aren't interested in debate and would rather just copy and paste your leftist slogans, then I'm sure there are plenty of other places that would accept you with open arms.

 

[palerider]

We went into Iraq based on a series of the same ..."look what I found" lies!

I asked for you to provide some of the "lies" and to date, you haven't done so. As with everything else you say, you simply aren't able to defend your statements on an intellectual level. If bush told lies, it should be quite easy to produce them and yet, you haven't.

But given that the failure that now prevails there ...the fact that we even need a "surge" ...is that the fault of the generals?

Who says it is a failure? You? Based on what. 90% of the fighting in iraq is within a 75 mile radius of baghdad. That doesn't constitute a nation at war to a thinking person.

Last time I remember you freaks had no problem berating a solidier yourself.... berating a man who put his life on the line for America ...his name is John Kerry!!

you are kidding. Right?

Debating is pointless with kooks and rampant hypocrites like you people!

It is pointless for you to debate since you get your ass handed to you every time you try and push forward an invalid point. Name calling is as good as you have, and frankly, it isn't good enough.

I will give you an opportunity to redeem yourself though. Point out some hypocritical statements by anyone here who is conservative. Perhaps you should review what the word means, however, because as you use it, it seems that you don't fully understand at this time.

 

[Coyote]

I asked for you to provide some of the "lies" and to date, you haven't done so. As with everything else you say, you simply aren't able to defend your statements on an intellectual level. If bush told lies, it should be quite easy to produce them and yet, you haven't.



Who says it is a failure? You? Based on what. 90% of the fighting in iraq is within a 75 mile radius of baghdad. That doesn't constitute a nation at war to a thinking person.



you are kidding. Right?



It is pointless for you to debate since you get your ass handed to you every time you try and push forward an invalid point. Name calling is as good as you have, and frankly, it isn't good enough.

I will give you an opportunity to redeem yourself though. Point out some hypocritical statements by anyone here who is conservative. Perhaps you should review what the word means, however, because as you use it, it seems that you don't fully understand at this time.

errr...not my quotes Pale...and I don't get my ass handled either.

 

[ArmChair General]

errr...not my quotes Pale...and I don't get my ass handled either.

goochy goochy goo

 

[Coyote]

goochy goochy goo

*SLAP*


Perv...

 

[ArmChair General]

*SLAP*


Perv...

chika chika bow wow...

 

[berreal]

I asked for you to provide some of the "lies" and to date, you haven't done so. As with everything else you say, you simply aren't able to defend your statements on an intellectual level. If bush told lies, it should be quite easy to produce them and yet, you haven't.

NUKULEER explosions on the streets of America .... how much duct tape and plastic did you buy bud!! The cherry picking of intelligence to distort the reality is ..... now an historical fact!!

Who says it is a failure? You? Based on what. 90% of the fighting in iraq is within a 75 mile radius of baghdad. That doesn't constitute a nation at war to a thinking person.

I would love to send you into one of those ..."safe" areas to drink the gutter water and live with out electricity!! Anywhere in Iraq that has any measure of safety today ..is as a result of no one left to kill!! The refugee camps are something you'd like to see remain a secrect ...not to mention the more fortunate Iraqis who could migrate to neighboring countries!!
One more time ..IRAQ is a HELL-HOLE ...thanks to comrade bush!!

you are kidding. Right?

No I'm not!! You kooks attacked a veteran's millitary (John Kerry) who placed his life on the line for his country ...for a RAT COWARD who served in Alabama ...and another RAT COWARD who saw himself through deferment after deferment! OH ..and look ...your on the cusp of trying to get yet another RAT COWARD (Guilliani) elected!! A man who talks about waging war in Iraq...profited immensly from that war ..and have never ...never been to Iraq ( last time I checked) once!!
It seems the best people to fight wars for the right ...are people who have never fought ..and have no experience what-so-ever in war fare!! Maybe its because the right has so few who actually fight .....like I'm sure ..your just another CHICKEN HAWK!!

As far as I am concern ... general ..BETRAY-US ...is great slogan for a man who thinks using GI's for cannon fodder to protect bush political reputation ...is a traitor!!

It is pointless for you to debate since you get your ass handed to you every time you try and push forward an invalid point. Name calling is as good as you have, and frankly, it isn't good enough.

Your just another chicken-hawk ..who feels by splicing people's statement..your somehow making a point!! Your not ...and like I said ...only idiots hooked on ideology would defend bush today!

I say that as I watch more and more people jump off the fear-and-scare band-wagon used frighten you with over the past 6 years ....and watch kooks like you becoming more and more isolated with the Rush Limbaugh gibberish!!

 

[palerider]

NUKULEER explosions on the streets of America .... how much duct tape and plastic did you buy bud!! The cherry picking of intelligence to distort the reality is ..... now an historical fact!!

Democrats voted for the war based on exactly the same intelligence. If you are complaining about bush and the intelligence while not complaining about the democrats and the same intellegence, then you are at least as big a hypocrite as I thought you were.

I would love to send you into one of those ..."safe" areas to drink the gutter water and live with out electricity!! Anywhere in Iraq that has any measure of safety today ..is as a result of no one left to kill!! The refugee camps are something you'd like to see remain a secrect ...not to mention the more fortunate Iraqis who could migrate to neighboring countries!!

It isn't possible for anyone to send me to a worse place than I have already been. No one is drinking gutter water, and only baghdad is having electrical problems. Your argument is indefensible spew.

As far as I am concern ... general ..BETRAY-US ...is great slogan for a man who thinks using GI's for cannon fodder to protect bush political reputation ...is a traitor!!

Exactly who is shooting cannons over there?

Your just another chicken-hawk ..who feels by splicing people's statement..your somehow making a point!! Your not ...and like I said ...only idiots hooked on ideology would defend bush today!

You don't have a clue. A chicken hawk is one who supports a war but has never been in a war. I don't qualify.

I say that as I watch more and more people jump off the fear-and-scare band-wagon used frighten you with over the past 6 years ....and watch kooks like you becoming more and more isolated with the Rush Limbaugh gibberish!!

I don't listen to rush, so once again, you don't have a clue. You talk and talk and talk and say nothing and are completely unable to defend any of it.

 

[palerider]

errr...not my quotes Pale...and I don't get my ass handled either.

Sorry. I can understand how upsetting it might be to be confused with someone like that.

And of course you get it handed to you. Just a small piece at a time rather than all at once like bereal.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Berreal, are you ever going to try to make a point or just kick and scream about "chickenhawks" and calling a decorated war hero with over 30 years spent serving his country a "traitor"?

There are plenty of good arguments that can be made against the war -- I've heard Ron Paul put forth some convincing ones, George Will of the Washington Post, and various others. But reciting your silly moveon.org/daily kos slogans isn't really going to convince anyone.

Let's calm down a little bit and try to have a respectful, intelligent discussion here (and no, putting a picture of a sheep watching fox news doesn't count).

 

[berreal]

Democrats voted for the war based on exactly the same intelligence. If you are complaining about bush and the intelligence while not complaining about the democrats and the same intellegence, then you are at least as big a hypocrite as I thought you were.

So lets keep killing people..including Americans ..because democrats made a mistake!! The fact is ...many democrats awcknoledge their mistake ...we saw all 9 white male republican candidate said during their debate that knowing what we now know ...thye would still go to war!! And worse we see the republican congress refusing to do the right thing and instead elect to close ranks and continue with the mistake!

It isn't possible for anyone to send me to a worse place than I have already been. No one is drinking gutter water, and only baghdad is having electrical problems. Your argument is indefensible spew.

so said yee ...as you sit back in your air conditioned ..well heated humble abode in the US!! You ..like all the rest still on the yee haww kick are nothing but chicken hawks!! Just one day ..one day in Iraq drinking the contaminated guuter water, with no electricity and you would start screaming murder like a whiney little cur!!

Exactly who is shooting cannons over there?

Wanna use guns ....that make you feel better...that clarify things for you?

Again ...more signs I dealing with a whiney little play station chicken hawk!

You don't have a clue. A chicken hawk is one who supports a war but has never been in a war. I don't qualify.

This is the internet buddy ...where chicken hawks come to live out their fantasy!! The common thread in many supporting war ..is that they have never been in a war...Guilliani, Dick Cheney ...bush.... ..i.e. chicken-hawk!!

I don't listen to rush, so once again, you don't have a clue. You talk and talk and talk and say nothing and are completely unable to defend any of it.

They all say this ...until they start quoting Rush Limbaugh word for word!! Yeah bud ...you got logic ...lol!!
Rush Limbaugh ..Shawn Hannity, Bill Oreilly Ann Coutier .....all the same ..I'm sure your a disciple of one ..if not all of the above!

 

[Hard Driver]

Just to be clear

Democrats voted for the war based on exactly the same intelligence. If you are complaining about bush and the intelligence while not complaining about the democrats and the same intellegence, then you are at least as big a hypocrite as I thought you were.

The "war resolution" was not an authorization to go to war under the situation that the war was started. This resolution was passed BEFORE Saddam allowed UN inspectors back into the country.

See the resolution:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS

The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to--

(a) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and

(b) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to


(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

Notice that this resolution says quite clearly that the diplomatic effort to have Iraq comply with the UN resolutions is the first choice.

This is the threat that got the UN inspectors back into Iraq and forced Saddam to allow unfettered access. This bill accomplished exactly what it was supposed to do... Therefore, because of this "war resolution" the war was not needed.

Read the last UN Report from the weapon inspectors:
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm

This UN report clearly states that because of international pressure, Saddam was complying, even using words like "proactive" for Iraq.

So the democrats and republicans who voted for this bill acheived their goals with establishing compliance with UN resolutions. It was the WAR that therefore was actually not authorized by the terms of this bill.