Obama to cut military health care.

[Andy]

if you wanted to treat them well, not reelecting Bush would haev been a smart idea...

republicans love the troops so much they will lie to send them to die.

There were no lies. The Rockefeller report proved conclusively that Bush did not lie when making his case for Iraq. A smart idea here would be to know something about which you speak.

 

[Andy]

Yeah you know how those Democrats are always trying to stop heathcare for the elderly. Just like how they fought against and have ever since tried to scuttle Social Security & Medicare for American senior citizens...........


Oh wait.............. It's the REPUBLICANT PARTY that has always done all that obstructionist & attempted scuttling stuff. My bad!!!

More empty claims you have never once been able to prove, are even provide supporting evidence for.

I've asked you over and over for any evidence of these lame accusations, and you have consistently acted like a small child putting your hands over your ears saying "la la la la". You should either put up, or shut up. Better yet, grow up.

Children go based on feelings. Adults look at evidence and facts, and make informed opinions. You have not chosen and adult path to understanding.

 

[Popeye]

There were no lies. The Rockefeller report proved conclusively that Bush did not lie when making his case for Iraq. A smart idea here would be to know something about which you speak.

Find those WMDs yet? What about the yellow cake?

I'm sure you've got an excuse for Everything..It's the fault of the intelligence, right? The American people were gullible but they only put up with Republican lies for so long.....enjoy being in the minority, a product of all those lies you claim never happened.

 

[top gun]

My dad is a vet and he loves the VA hospitals. He could go on for hours telling you all the great things they have done for him and are still currently doing for him. All the vets I know have good things to say about them. I do hear negative stuff too but only on TV and usually by vets who are Dems. I would assume the vet hospitals vary in quality? My dad used the vet’s office in Tulsa and now in Omaha and loves them both.

I think there is much more to it than "The Obama administration is one that listens and considers many ideas " It was obama who presented this plan to change the health care and his reason was to save money. The vets met with him and expressed to him it was a bad idea, at the end of the meetings obama did not seemed to have been swayed, only after outcry did he agree to drop the idea. So its not exactly like you are saying.

My question to you is this...

My dad is a vet and he loves the VA hospitals. He could go on for hours telling you all the great things they have done for him and are still currently doing for him. All the vets I know have good things to say about them. I do hear negative stuff too but only on TV and usually by vets who are Dems. I would assume the vet hospitals vary in quality? My dad used the vet’s office in Tulsa and now in Omaha and loves them both.

I think there is much more to it than "The Obama administration is one that listens and considers many ideas " It was obama who presented this plan to change the health care and his reason was to save money. The vets met with him and expressed to him it was a bad idea, at the end of the meetings obama did not seemed to have been swayed, only after outcry did he agree to drop the idea. So its not exactly like you are saying.

My question to you is this...

Do you think that it was the right program to cut to save money or do you think he should focus on other programs to cut to save money?

I think you and I agree (at least I hope) that we do need to cut something to save some money, but the question is...... was the vets the place to start? Hell for that matter, should the vets be in the list at all no matter how far down.

The things I always heard from my uncle and his friends (WW2 Vets) and my Dad (Korean War Vet) was that they were of course glad they had the free VA Hospital services. But they always complained that the VA wasn't of the quality of care & service they would receive when they went to a regular hospital.

As far as the talk of various possible ideas to address healthcare it really has to do with the overall picture.

My guess would be President Obama envisioning National Healthcare on the horizon was looking for savings while not sacrificing quality care.

The other thing I'd point out is that this "idea" was really more about insurance companies picking up the tab than it was anything else.

When a person has private health insurance and goes off to the service as in the Reserves the insurance company is not having to pay for any care to their client. If that were to be modified then the government would save a lot of money. As far as the possibility of co-pays we have no idea how the details would have been worked out. Maybe there would have been a pay increase... or reimbursement... or tax credit. We don't know because the plan was never remotely close to a point to being finalized.

It's called "floating an idea". It's fine to keep it separate but we then can't complain about the costs. President Obama is looking to see what the AMERICAN PEOPLE want. It's not like he rammed anything through.

Let's face it the Bush administration ran this cost up through the roof by lying us into Iraq and leaving us stuck there for all these years.

Like I've said many times before my first cuts would be to the money given to other countries and I think the military can be ran more efficiently along with troop levels winding back eventually to Clinton era levels. There's a lot of smaller thing I'd also cut that all put together would add up as well.

I'm very much looking forward to the next few years. I think we are going to get a lot of good & important things done!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

This is all just talk.

The Obama administration is one that listens and considers many ideas and points of view. It seems unfair to not wait until there's and actual policy decision... look at the pros & cons of that... and then form an informed opinion about the actual proposal.

I do go back to a few fundamental broad spectrum points though:

Heathcare in America on all levels needs repair and I believe it's reasonable to look at National Healthcare because it not only covers everybody but it also makes US businesses more competitive due to the fact many of our international competitors have some form of subsidized heathcare.

Secondly... For as long as I can remember I've heard really nothing much but negative comments about the VA Hospital system. And I've heard that from friends & family that have actually used it. And we've all seen pictures of and investigations of some really bad VA facilities.

Bottom line: Let's see what actual proposal comes forward for legislative action and how this is all tied together with our overall heathcare reform before we make judgments.

If I think it's not going to be better... I will of course say so.

whats funny ( not realy) is that they are all pissed about making health care private it sounds like...if you said the same thing about any other group of people they would be for it.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

There were no lies. The Rockefeller report proved conclusively that Bush did not lie when making his case for Iraq. A smart idea here would be to know something about which you speak.

many other reports suggest otherwise...unless you just contend they where all idots who did not know anything about the intel they where talking about. But like a talking to well, you will never listen .

 

[top gun]

More empty claims you have never once been able to prove, are even provide supporting evidence for.

I've asked you over and over for any evidence of these lame accusations, and you have consistently acted like a small child putting your hands over your ears saying "la la la la". You should either put up, or shut up. Better yet, grow up.

Children go based on feelings. Adults look at evidence and facts, and make informed opinions. You have not chosen and adult path to understanding.

Was that one of your tantrums again Andy?

It was the Democrats that pushed for Social Security & Medicare...

Creation: The Social Security Act

President Roosevelt signs the Social Security Act, at approximately 3:30 pm EST on August 14, 1935[9]. Standing with Roosevelt are Rep. Robert Doughton (D-NC); unknown person in shadow; Sen. Robert Wagner (D-NY); Rep. John Dingell (D-MI); unknown man in bowtie; the Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins; Sen. Pat Harrison (D-MS); and Rep. David Lewis (D-MD).The Social Security Act was drafted by President Roosevelt's committee on economic security, under Edwin Witte, and passed by Congress as part of the New Deal. The act was an attempt to limit what were seen as dangers in the modern American life, including old age, poverty, unemployment, and the burdens of widows and fatherless children. By passing this act, President Roosevelt became the first president to advocate the protection of the elderly.

The Republicants have been trying to dismantle it ever since.


Economist Paul Krugman explains Bush’s latest con—social security
By ERIC BATES
January 13, 2005

To hear George Bush tell it, Social Security is about to go broke. Since his re-election, the president has launched a full-scale campaign to convince the public that the retirement system will run out of money starting in 2018. “The system goes into the red,” Bush told reporters on December 20th at a rare press conference. “Many times, legislative bodies will not react unless the crisis is apparent, crisis is upon them. I believe that crisis is.” Social Security, he concluded, “can’t sustain that which has been promised to the workers.”
To save Social Security, Bush wants to destroy it—replacing government-guaranteed retirement benefits with private accounts that will be subject to the whims of the stock market. It’s an expensive plan. Allowing workers to divert even a small portion of their payroll taxes into private investments, as Bush is proposing, would require the government to borrow at least $2 trillion to make up the immediate shortfall. It’s also completely unnecessary, according to Paul Krugman, a prize-winning professor of economics at Princeton University. In a blistering series of columns in the New York Times, Krugman has marshaled the economic data to show that Social Security is not only solvent, it’s in much better financial shape than the rest of the federal government. “The people who hustled America into a tax cut to eliminate an imaginary budget surplus and a war to eliminate imaginary weapons,” Krugman wrote recently, “are now trying another bum’s rush.”
At his tree-shaded home in Princeton, New Jersey, Krugman took a break from working on a new economics textbook to explain why the crisis is phony—and what’s wrong with Bush’s plan “to convert Social Security into a giant 401(k).”

I know you like wasting my time documenting what everyone already knows... but these things are really pretty common knowledge there Andy!

 

[asur]

Obama tried to cut the benefits for veterans, but I believe many people
were outraged. Obama is the problem now. He needs to go.
He wants to give AIG buddies bonuses, but cut benefits to military folks.
He is just bad news.

 

[Andy]

many other reports suggest otherwise...unless you just contend they where all idots who did not know anything about the intel they where talking about. But like a talking to well, you will never listen .

Not that the Senate intelligence committee would know for certain whether or not the intelligence existed to substantiate Bush's claims... right? I'm sure some retired general, or low ranking DNC operative, or some opinion article writers at the NYTimes, of course knows a great deal more than the Senate Intelligence committee, right Pocket?

I'm going to wager that regardless on whether or not the politically motivated reports claiming he lied, were spread throughout the media, are nonetheless irrelevant. That facts of the case are well documented in the Rockefeller report, which was by far, a hostile anti-Bush, partisan report. Yet even there, the Senate intel committee had to admit that for almost everything said, there was substantial intelligence supporting the assertions.

What's worse is, Clinton, before Bush, used the exact same evidence to support attack Iraq back in 1998. Not to mention that the entire congress roundly supported attacking Iraq, before, during, and after 2002 when the war began, based specifically on this same evidence.

So in order for you to claim Bush lied, you also must accept that your entire fr***kin party lied, your prior presidents lied, most of your stupid candidates lied, the prior administration lied, and most of our allies around the world lied.

In order for you to hold on to the stupidity that Bush lied, you have to assume that only you, and those conspiracy nuts with you, are the only ones on the planet that know the truth.

 

[Andy]

Was that one of your tantrums again Andy?

Just pointing out the truth. You never have, nor ever will, show one shred of evidence supporting the idiotic claim that somehow Republicans obstructed the perfect wonderful policies that would have fixed the world.

It was the Democrats that pushed for Social Security & Medicare...

Yeah, Social Security costs the poor more than any other social program in our economy, and leaves more people in poverty since they expect government to take care of them and thus don't provide for themselves. A program that violates the principals of the founding of our country, namely freedom from oppressive government programs, and the right to keep the income they legally earned.

A program that has ever decreasing benefits, and ever increasing cost, that has caused recessions with every tax increased passed for it's benefit.

That's your great defense of democrats? A program that's going broke by 2014? A program that has all of it's money tied to the general fund, when there's almost no chance the money will be there when needed?

The Republicants have been trying to dismantle it ever since.

Idiocy. If the Republicans really were trying to dismantle it, I'd be a member of the republican party, and giving them donations for once in my life.

If you knew anything about what you speak, you'd know the last time social security was 'saved', it was a republican that wrote the bill.

You'd also know that Carter was the one who allied immigrants who never paid into social security, is part of what accelerated its unavoidable decline.

And Medicare? Don't make me laugh. Medicare is the biggest cause of the increasing medical prices we face today. Not to mention the billions in wasted money every year, not including medicare fraud that is rampant.

All your so-called supports, don't even support the claims you have made, and at the same time fail to even make a case for democrats. Our government is printing billions of dollars, which will cause massive inflation, and economic turmoils in the coming year, and all you can do is sing the praises of our failing policies? You don't even see the very policies you support, are exactly what's causing our problems.

John Adams was right. Business people are the most ignorant people there are. Funny how the left always claims Capitalist think so highly of business people. Not so. Business people are stupid at level nearly on par with government itself.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Not that the Senate intelligence committee would know for certain whether or not the intelligence existed to substantiate Bush's claims... right? I'm sure some retired general, or low ranking DNC operative, or some opinion article writers at the NYTimes, of course knows a great deal more than the Senate Intelligence committee, right Pocket?

I'm going to wager that regardless on whether or not the politically motivated reports claiming he lied, were spread throughout the media, are nonetheless irrelevant. That facts of the case are well documented in the Rockefeller report, which was by far, a hostile anti-Bush, partisan report. Yet even there, the Senate intel committee had to admit that for almost everything said, there was substantial intelligence supporting the assertions.

What's worse is, Clinton, before Bush, used the exact same evidence to support attack Iraq back in 1998. Not to mention that the entire congress roundly supported attacking Iraq, before, during, and after 2002 when the war began, based specifically on this same evidence.

So in order for you to claim Bush lied, you also must accept that your entire fr***kin party lied, your prior presidents lied, most of your stupid candidates lied, the prior administration lied, and most of our allies around the world lied.

In order for you to hold on to the stupidity that Bush lied, you have to assume that only you, and those conspiracy nuts with you, are the only ones on the planet that know the truth.

realy ? my party? I forget when did I become a Dem, becuse I must have missed that...or when I supported Clinton...

again baseless worthless nothing.

Was there evidence of yellow cake sales from Niger in the document he stated? NO, was it known to be false and untrue? Yes...did he use it anyway? Yes...what do you call that? I call it a lie.

Meetings of Al Qaeda and Iraqi Intel...that never happened,,,( even if it had would not mean anything)

The Tubes that where proof of plans for WMD...of course not proof, in fact not even believed to be, or found to be able to be used for what stated,,,but used as clear proof anyway,,,


Also the attacks in 1998 where do to Saddam not doing what was needed to show he had no nukes, and for the attempt on Bush HW. Not becuse we claimed to have real intel showing he had WMD.

 

[PLC1]

There were no lies. The Rockefeller report proved conclusively that Bush did not lie when making his case for Iraq. A smart idea here would be to know something about which you speak.

No, he didn't lie, and yes, it would have been far better had he actually known what he was talking about when it came to Iraq and WMD. We could have saved a whole lot of money and trouble, not to mention lives.

 

[PLC1]

Find those WMDs yet? What about the yellow cake?

Yellow cake, aaaahhhhgggg!!

What, no yellow cake??!! Doh!

 

[Pandora]

Yellow cake, aaaahhhhgggg!!

What, no yellow cake??!! Doh!

550 metric tons of yellowcake was found last year in Iraq and sent to Canada
what do you mean no yellowcake?

 

[PLC1]

550 metric tons of yellowcake was found last year in Iraq and sent to Canada
what do you mean no yellowcake?

Are you referring to this yellowcake?

Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.

Hardly sounds like a viable attempt to create WMDs, does it?

I was referring to the story about Saddam trying to buy more yellowcake from Niger, since proven false.