ArmChair General
Well-Known Member
Obama is a...
the magic negro
Obama is a...
I don't think it's that at all. I think it's always been a matter of the more you have the more you can afford to give. It's really a lot like tything. I don't see anybody being drug down to the poverty level because of taxes. And least we forget that much of what taxes go to helps every single person at some point... not just the poor.
There was a time when people helped out their neighbors and their communities at the level required. If a road needed built... the community got together and built it. If someone was sick the doctor took care of it whether the family could pay or not. As time passed things changed and at the same time the country grew and spread out tremendously. Some critically important social programs had to be implemented.
Bottom line is it's just plain math. It is not unreasonable for a person making $60,000 per year to pay $6000 in taxes and the person making $30,000 per year to pay only $3000. They make twice a much. There's twice as much income to tax. There is nothing unfair about that and often the more you make the more tax shelters you actually learn to utilize. And if you earn at the poverty level or below you shouldn't have to pay taxes... you're already in poverty.
Well I'm not advocating that we shouldn't have any social programs. Certainly there are those who genuinely need help, either permanent due to illness or injury, or temporary due to a lay off or stint in the hospitol. That being said, I don't see why someone that studied hard, invested wisely, and worked their ass off should be responsible for the living conditions of someone that has birthed 3 babies out of wedlock before the age of 20, or waste their money on superfluous items like big screen tv's or 20" rims instead of saving/ investing, or has an addiction to drugs, or ...... the list goes on. When you are taking money from people that work hard and spend/save wisely and giving it to people tht are not responsible you are punishing that hard work and diminishing the incentive to succeed and keep our economy going.
While I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying I have to ask what do we do to stop these things from happening? Unless we abandon the very freedoms and principles that make our country what it is I don't see how you can stop it. It's part of the price we pay for having freedoms and rights.
Income taxes are ILLEGAL
I honestly don't know what we should do. My answer for most everything is personal responsibility, but with the way things are going I don't see people becoming more responsible. I definately wouldn't give up rights to "ensure" that people started acting more responsibly. I guess it is a catch 22. I definately wouldn't trade capitolism for anything else, but to me it seems to have had a detrimental effect on some of our values, like personal responsibility. When I see irresponsible lifestyles being marketed to people it upsets me quite a bit. It is not like the old days where we simply marketed and sold goods and services. I think that marketing has gone from "defining a target audience and addressing their needs and how -insert company- can fullfill them" to "creating a target audience and giving them a need that -insert company- can fullfill" at least to a certain extent. I've never really verbalized my thought process on this so bear with me. Take MTV. When I watch MTV I see shows that glorify sexual permiscuity ( highschool pregnancies), absurd materialism (bling, rims, etc.), vapid personalities and so on. These show are marketed towards people my own age, 25, but also towards teenagers. Since the marketing of these ideals has become so widespread I believe that children, and adults sadly, become enthralled with notions that sex is consequence free, it is wiser to waste money on "the new cell phone (even though you just bought one 6 months ago) or this brand of "whatever" than to save and invest. I think that the ideas of "keeping up with the Jones'" and "gotta do this to be cool" have subverted much more important principles like not starting a family until your financially capable and focusing your efforts as a parent towards making sure your child is prepared for the world instead of making sure that your daughter is dressed as slutty as the other girls so she will be popular. The reason we have these cultures in our society is because someone is making money on them. That is what I don't get about the whole "evil rich" argument. They are making money because we are buying their stupid ****. We perpetuate the existence of these lifestyles and ideals because we buy clothes that dress our children up like hookers, we buy music that objectifies women and glorifies violence/drug use, and we pay for, via the commercials we view, TV shows that do the same. I guess it comes back to personal responsibility. If we could pull our heads out of our asses and start supporting decent values again, maybe there wouldn't be as much nonsensical drivel to take our minds off of working hard, being proud that we work hard, education, and being responsible.
Sorry for the rant.
Well I'm not advocating that we shouldn't have any social programs. Certainly there are those who genuinely need help, either permanent due to illness or injury, or temporary due to a lay off or stint in the hospitol. That being said, I don't see why someone that studied hard, invested wisely, and worked their ass off should be responsible for the living conditions of someone that has birthed 3 babies out of wedlock before the age of 20, or waste their money on superfluous items like big screen tv's or 20" rims instead of saving/ investing, or has an addiction to drugs, or ...... the list goes on. When you are taking money from people that work hard and spend/save wisely and giving it to people tht are not responsible you are punishing that hard work and diminishing the incentive to succeed and keep our economy going.
People can't afford to help their neighbors and their community anymore, because of taxes. Your example above is an example of a flat tax, in your scenario both incomes are paying 10%, that however is not the reality in existence today. I am middle income, and I pay 50% of my income to the government in one manner or another. Here is a partial list. Federal income tax, social security, medicare, state income tax, sales tax on virtually everything I purchase, property tax on my house, property tax on my vehicles, registration tax(fees) for my vehicles, mandatory annual inspections for my vehicles, I smoke and tobacco is taxed heavily, I drink and alcohol is taxed heavily, gasoline taxes, misc taxes on the phone service (between me and my daughters, that is 3 phones I am getting taxed on), there is a special tax on my internet service, there is more, but you get the point. When I did the math a few months ago, it really did come out to 50%. Don't you think that is an extreme tax rate for middle income? I certainly do.I don't think it's that at all. I think it's always been a matter of the more you have the more you can afford to give. It's really a lot like tything. I don't see anybody being drug down to the poverty level because of taxes. And least we forget that much of what taxes go to helps every single person at some point... not just the poor.
There was a time when people helped out their neighbors and their communities at the level required. If a road needed built... the community got together and built it. If someone was sick the doctor took care of it whether the family could pay or not. As time passed things changed and at the same time the country grew and spread out tremendously. Some critically important social programs had to be implemented.
Bottom line is it's just plain math. It is not unreasonable for a person making $60,000 per year to pay $6000 in taxes and the person making $30,000 per year to pay only $3000. They make twice a much. There's twice as much income to tax. There is nothing unfair about that and often the more you make the more tax shelters you actually learn to utilize. And if you earn at the poverty level or below you shouldn't have to pay taxes... you're already in poverty.
People can't afford to help their neighbors and their community anymore, because of taxes. Your example above is an example of a flat tax, in your scenario both incomes are paying 10%, that however is not the reality in existence today. I am middle income, and I pay 50% of my income to the government in one manner or another. Here is a partial list. Federal income tax, social security, medicare, state income tax, sales tax on virtually everything I purchase, property tax on my house, property tax on my vehicles, registration tax(fees) for my vehicles, mandatory annual inspections for my vehicles, I smoke and tobacco is taxed heavily, I drink and alcohol is taxed heavily, gasoline taxes, misc taxes on the phone service (between me and my daughters, that is 3 phones I am getting taxed on), there is a special tax on my internet service, there is more, but you get the point. When I did the math a few months ago, it really did come out to 50%. Don't you think that is an extreme tax rate for middle income? I certainly do.
People can't afford to help their neighbors and their community anymore, because of taxes. Your example above is an example of a flat tax, in your scenario both incomes are paying 10%, that however is not the reality in existence today. I am middle income, and I pay 50% of my income to the government in one manner or another. Here is a partial list. Federal income tax, social security, medicare, state income tax, sales tax on virtually everything I purchase, property tax on my house, property tax on my vehicles, registration tax(fees) for my vehicles, mandatory annual inspections for my vehicles, I smoke and tobacco is taxed heavily, I drink and alcohol is taxed heavily, gasoline taxes, misc taxes on the phone service (between me and my daughters, that is 3 phones I am getting taxed on), there is a special tax on my internet service, there is more, but you get the point. When I did the math a few months ago, it really did come out to 50%. Don't you think that is an extreme tax rate for middle income? I certainly do.
I wonder what you would consider a businesses "fair share" to be?I agree taxes are too high but I'm tired of using my tax dollars to subsidize professional sports teams to build new stadiums. I'm tired of giving tax breaks to Walmart, Home Depot and other large businesses to build a new store a few miles down the road because the tax breaks they used to build their current store is about to run out. I could go on and on if you catch my drift. My taxes wouldn't need to be so high if I wasn't subsidizing the rich and businesses so they don't have to pay their fair share.
I wonder what you would consider a businesses "fair share" to be?
Now that I have asked that question, let me explain to you how businesses don't pay tax.
Businesses only collect taxes from the consumer, this is an economic fact. If the government were to raise taxes on business, there are only two possible outcomes of this action. One would be for the business to stop doing business, the other would be for them to raise prices to offset the tax. In other words they pass on that increased tax to the consumer. By raising taxes on a business, the government is only forcing the business to act as a tax collector for them. You and I ultimately pay that tax, unfortunately, that is the economic reality of taxing a business.