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Obama calls for increase in Federal Gas Tax
- Thread starter Little-Acorn
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GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
And there's clearly no shortage of people who are willing to lie about the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit.
steveox
Well-Known Member
If he raises the GAS TAX then He broke his campaign promise.
Remember George Bushs daddy promised you this?
If Obama raises the tax,,Then its only gonna lead me steal even bigger items at Wal Mart.
Remember George Bushs daddy promised you this?
If Obama raises the tax,,Then its only gonna lead me steal even bigger items at Wal Mart.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
You mean he broke ANOTHER promise
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
Again...when Obama extended the Bush tax cuts...do you say Obama cut my taxes for that? NO
But when he extends a tax...its raising taxes...even if what you pay in taxes will be that same today as it was a year ago as it will be in 2 years...Yet thats a raise..
Be consistent or quit crying about it.
again, republicans right now I trying to not extend a tax cut that republicans are in favor of letting expire...yet the right chirps like crickets about it.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
I am not crying about anything.
Why would I say he cut my taxes when he just extended the existing tax rates?
And I personally would not say he raised taxes by letting them expire. Only if he actually changed the tax rates to make it higher or lower would I say he raised or cut taxes.
Are you trying to say obama has not broken any campaign promises?
Dr.Who
Well-Known Member
If he allows something to happen that was already scheduled to happen then he get none of the credit or blame.
If he extends a cut then the gets the credit and if he extends a tax then he gets the blame.
Unless...
It would seem that he gave me a tax rebate of about $400 yet my total paid in taxes went up by a very considerable amount under Obama. If he made changes elsewhere that resulted in me paying more then all that matters to me is that I got an increase in my taxes - it does not matter to me if the rate changed or the rebate changed or the exemptions changed or the allowances or the formulas or whatever.
Does anyone have any data on personal income taxes and whether people are paying more or less, and this is important, all other things being equal. I am sure that as a nation we are paying less because people are working less and earning less. But if we adjust for that, or if we look at people who did not lose their jobs, then are people actually paying more or less on the last line (well the line that is near the end anyway)?
Are you saying that people who pay no federal income taxes still got to keep $400 from money that they didn't have to pay in the first place? Did the government send them a check for that amount free for nothing? (I don't know, am not trying to argue the point, just wondering).
Since I do pay federal taxes, I got $400 for me, another $400 for my wife for a total of $800 that I didn't have to pay to the government. That's a tax cut of $800, albeit a temporary one. I didn't save that much from the so called "Bush tax cuts."
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Even people who make zero income can file and when they do they can get that credit
I have money taken out every month for federal taxes but after I file I get it all back and I also get another 2-3 thousand dollars for earned income credit but this time I got the extra tax credit as did anyone else who filed for earned income credit even though it means we pay zero taxes. So If its a tax cut I am trying to figure out how much of a cut i got
in your last post you called it a credit and in this post you call it a cut
what is it?
A credit? That is how it is worded on the IRS form or is it a cut
Now if it's a cut , does this mean if we don't get it this year we all got our taxes raised by 400?
Even people who make zero income can file and when they do they can get that credit
I have money taken out every month for federal taxes but after I file I get it all back and I also get another 2-3 thousand dollars for earned income credit but this time I got the extra tax credit as did anyone else who filed for earned income credit even though it means we pay zero taxes. So If its a tax cut I am trying to figure out how much of a cut i got
in your last post you called it a credit and in this post you call it a cut
what is it?
A credit? That is how it is worded on the IRS form or is it a cut
Now if it's a cut , does this mean if we don't get it this year we all got our taxes raised by 400?
From my point of view, it's a cut. I paid $800 less in income taxes than I would have, so my tax bill was cut by that amount.
If you're getting back money that you didn't pay in, then that's a redistribution of income, which is quite another matter.
If we're going to have a redistribution of income, then I'd rather see it being redistributed to the poor as opposed to the wealthy, as is far too often the case.
But, it would be much better to simply eliminate the subsidies, bail outs, and assorted give-aways and balance the budget.
Now, the original point: If I, and every other taxpayer in the country, got a $400 tax cut (which is what it was from the POV of the taxpayers) on top of the "Bush tax cuts", and if tax cuts are the path to prosperity, then we should be seeing bull markets, low unemployment, and general happiness by now.
If, that is, tax cuts are the path to prosperity.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
ok so when you dont get the credit that you call a cut this year will you feel that obama raised your taxes by 800 dollars?
OK well so now I didnt get a cut or a credit, i got a redistribution of wealth
I feel dirty~!
OMG obama kept at least one of his premisses! He said he would redistribute wealth and he did it, i am living proof!
OK well so now I didnt get a cut or a credit, i got a redistribution of wealth
I feel dirty~!
OMG obama kept at least one of his premisses! He said he would redistribute wealth and he did it, i am living proof!
ok so when you dont get the credit that you call a cut this year will you feel that obama raised your taxes by 800 dollars?
OK well so now I didnt get a cut or a credit, i got a redistribution of wealth
I feel dirty~!
OMG obama kept at least one of his premisses! He said he would redistribute wealth and he did it, i am living proof!
True enough. Of course, what you got was peanuts compared with the CEOs of the mortgage banks, the oil companies, big agriculture, and big pharma, so, enjoy it and don't feel so dirty.
And no, I don't think Obama raised my taxes by ending the credits. I think he signed into law a temporary tax cut, just like the temporary tax cuts that Bush signed into law, and Obama extended.
When the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire, should we feel that taxes were raised? I know a lot of people will.
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
That's because your rates remain unchanged, therefore no tax increase, only an end to the tax credit (rebate).
Do you really not understand the difference between a tax CUT and a tax CREDIT? Or do you see it as a difference without a distinction?
It is a difference, but the end result, from my POV and that of most middle class Americans, was the same.
My taxes went down by $800. That is no different from a tax cut, at least for me.
For the very rich, who benefit more from a percent decrease, and the very poor, who get money back that they didn't pay in, it is an important distinction.
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GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
A tax cut would mean that you paid in $800 less because your tax rate went down. A tax credit means that you get back $800 of the money that was taxed out of your check without a change in your tax rate.
They aren't the same thing. It's fallacious to refer to one in terms of the other, the terms are not interchangeable. Another example of this are the budget "cuts", where we didn't actually CUT any money from the budget, we just reduced the rate of growth from 13% to 12% and people like you call that a budget "cut". It would be funny if it weren't so Orwellian.
