Not another Republican caught in a bathroom stall story!

[vyo476]

If Bill Clinton was a father, friend or relative to me I would much prefer hearing that he banged the secretary than that he was crusing public bathroom stalls to have sex with men!

Oh, sigh.

I suppose it's inevitable. Getting people to look at heterosexual and homosexual transgressions on a level playing field is just never going to happen, is it?

What Bill Clinton did was wrong. What Larry Craig did was also wrong. Both were offenses related to sexuality. One was an offense related to heterosexuality and one was an offense related to homosexuality. If we condemn one and not the other - what does that say?

Then again, why bother digging up the Clinton debacle at all?

Does anyone wonder why Mr. Craig keeps stalwartly insisting that he isn't gay? In one corner, you have his own Republican Party, which is already painting him in honey and tossing him to the wolves (and would probably attach a few raw steaks to his arms if he actually admitted he was gay), and in the other corner you have Top Gun and the Democrats, who would sing "hypocrisy!" for ages. Come on, people. Give the guy a break.

 

[berreal]

Oh, sigh.

I suppose it's inevitable. Getting people to look at heterosexual and homosexual transgressions on a level playing field is just never going to happen, is it?

What Bill Clinton did was wrong. What Larry Craig did was also wrong. Both were offenses related to sexuality. One was an offense related to heterosexuality and one was an offense related to homosexuality. If we condemn one and not the other - what does that say?

Then again, why bother digging up the Clinton debacle at all?

Does anyone wonder why Mr. Craig keeps stalwartly insisting that he isn't gay? In one corner, you have his own Republican Party, which is already painting him in honey and tossing him to the wolves (and would probably attach a few raw steaks to his arms if he actually admitted he was gay), and in the other corner you have Top Gun and the Democrats, who would sing "hypocrisy!" for ages. Come on, people. Give the guy a break.

First let me address the right-wing-spin on all this. They are trying as usual to look hollier-than-thou ..by saying they moved swiftly to discipline Craig and call for his resignation. Thats a lie!
Republicans knew about this for years with Craig and did absolutely nothing.
Story about his prior toilet escapades are well documented but never really proven. So, this amazing coincidence of being accused of a certain crime ...being caught committing the same crime ...and pleading guilty to it ...makes one just understand the arrogance of him now trying to deny it!! Gee ...I wonder where that came from?

And in fact ...think about what would have happened had Craig not plead guilty!!

We would have had a US republican senator's word ...against some lowly cop's word regarding what transpired in a bathroom stall. Had that been the case ..I'm betting that Craig's ..."WIDE-STANCE" ...argument would have stood up! And we would just add that to yet another such series of accusations regarding Craig that would have gone nowhere and republicans would have done nothing about.

In addition, republicans could not defend his guilty plea!! That would have been like Michael Vick now saying .."you know what I didn't fight dogs" my guilty-plea was a mistake and I want to change my mind! Its too late for that.

But more importantly for republicans ..Craig is expendable ...he's from a red state not really contested by democrats! They did the math!!

We've seen this before...when Foley was exposed ...republicans were well aware of what he was doing well before the story broke! After it broke they started to scatter and hand him over to the wolves.

And don't forget when Vitters confessed to having a mistress ...republicans cheered him on! Their shout of .."look we are calling for his resignation" ...only adds to the hypocrisy in my mind! Because as usual these people consistently treat their base like idiots...dispite the glaring facts ..the image is all that matters!!



Second.... let me now talk about my views on homsexuality. I'm an independent ..and an Atheist..and as far as I'm concerned its your right and your business to be gay. And you should be able to do so without any reprisal.

But for me personally, the act of being a homosexual ..is a nasty act! Wallowing in feases in my mind is intolerable ...and oh BTW I find it equally disgusting with hetrosexual couples as well. Its long been very clear to me what that hole was made for.

Now add to that having any kind of sex in a public bathroom while some guy is next door emptying his bowels ...dude ...don't touch my door-knob ...please!!

I couldn't have sex with a playboy pinup under those circumstances ...just not the right ambiance dude.
Man ..I'm forever in a hurry at public rest rooms just taking a leak ...thats no place I want to stay longer than I have to!!!

But thats just me!!



The fact is ...for the past 10 years there has been more inpropriety regarding sexual escapades for republicans than for democrats. But you wouldn't guess that ..why? Because Bill Clinton is always the reason why any republican screw up!!

What Bill did was wrong. But it was nothing powerfull men havn't been doing for centuries. And while the rest of the world understood this ...the hypocrites on the right were here acting as if he just publicly beheaded a baby and filmed it!

You could at least say they worked together ... you can't say this in Craig's case.

 

[top gun]

Oh, sigh.

I suppose it's inevitable. Getting people to look at heterosexual and homosexual transgressions on a level playing field is just never going to happen, is it?

What Bill Clinton did was wrong. What Larry Craig did was also wrong. Both were offenses related to sexuality. One was an offense related to heterosexuality and one was an offense related to homosexuality. If we condemn one and not the other - what does that say?

Then again, why bother digging up the Clinton debacle at all?

Does anyone wonder why Mr. Craig keeps stalwartly insisting that he isn't gay? In one corner, you have his own Republican Party, which is already painting him in honey and tossing him to the wolves (and would probably attach a few raw steaks to his arms if he actually admitted he was gay), and in the other corner you have Top Gun and the Democrats, who would sing "hypocrisy!" for ages. Come on, people. Give the guy a break.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA...

You see no difference at all in the type of transgression my friend? Seriously?

President Clinton had a consensual adult affair which is not at all illegal in itself in any way, and always claiming to be straight he of course had it with a woman.

Congressman Craig was out trolling in a public airport restroom for gay stall sex and was busted by an undercover police officer for doing so. He then pled guilty to the facts of the case. He's faked being straight to get elected... was arrested and pled guilty to a gay related act... and now says Oh, he's straight again.

There's nothing even remotely similar in these two cases.

The Democrats are not the ones jumping on Craig's back. The Democrats are doing exactly what they should do. Highlighting the hypocrisy of the Republican Party and their highly self touted righteousness over everyone else.

The fact is if the guy had been a Democrat he would have had a lot better chance of being able to tell the truth all along and not have to play the Republican "smoke & mirrors" game to get elected in the first place.

 

[berreal]

The hypocrisy from the right was always evident to many of us. They never fooled many people, in fact all they did was fooled themselves.

And in this case it would have been best to dismiss Craig ..and shut up!!
But by coming out and trying to announce to the world ... " look we're getting rid of him quickly" ... and by trying to drag Bill Clinton into it to somehow absolve Craig .... only re-afirm by beliefs!!

It clearly says yet again ...that they live by the "smoke-and-mirror" rule!

The bed-rock of right-wing politics is hypocrisy ..period!!

 

[vyo476]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA...

You see no difference at all in the type of transgression my friend? Seriously?

Seriously. I don't.

President Clinton had a consensual adult affair which is not at all illegal in itself in any way, and always claiming to be straight he of course had it with a woman.

It isn't illegal. Immoral, though? When you're taking advantage of a position of power to solicit sexual activity...but of course, Monica was blowing Bill because of his good looks.

And yay, Mr. Clinton's not a closeted homosexual. That's better for him than for us, though - what he went through had nothing to do with confusion over sexual identity, like what Mr. Craig is probably experiencing right now.

Congressman Craig was out trolling in a public airport restroom for gay stall sex and was busted by an undercover police officer for doing so. He then pled guilty to the facts of the case. He's faked being straight to get elected... was arrested and pled guilty to a gay related act... and now says Oh, he's straight again.

I know tons of people who, when put under heavy social pressure, renounced their homosexuality. That kind of social pressure is absolutely terrible...but I guess Mr. Craig wasn't under any pressure at all to say he wasn't actually gay, right?

You're convicting him for lying about his sexuality. That just doesn't fly with me.

The Democrats are not the ones jumping on Craig's back. The Democrats are doing exactly what they should do. Highlighting the hypocrisy of the Republican Party and their highly self touted righteousness over everyone else.

You're jumping on his back. Or else "He's faked being straight to get elected... was arrested and pled guilty to a gay related act... and now says Oh, he's straight again. " isn't a personal attack.

With all the pressure the guy's under...is it any wonder he's lying about being gay? And don't dump this all on the Republicans. Do you suppose John Edwards, with all of his religious North Carolinian constituents, would have made it to the Senate if it had come out that he was gay - or, as you're claiming is possible for Democrats but not Republicans, if he'd admitted as much from the start?

My biggest problem with the Frank Rule is that it treats homosexuality as purely choice. The whole idea behind it is that it is hypocritical for Republicans to decry homosexuality and then go home and practice it themselves. If we were taking about doing drugs or drinking, then yes, I'd be all for revealing the hypocrisy. Gay Republicans who both practice homosexuality and decry it in public aren't evil hypocrites who want all the "good stuff" for themselves while denying it to others; that's not how homosexuality works. They're probably highly conflicted individuals with a confused sexual identity that they mask for reasons of societal acceptance.

Would it be easier for their homosexuality to be accepted by the Democratic Party? Maybe. Would all of their other policies, like Craig's support of the PATRIOT Act, be accepted by the Democratic Party? Certainly not, and we don't need another Zell Miller.

Personally, I don't think anything short of a capital offense by a member of our government, or cases of governmental misconduct, ought to be made public. So what if Larry Craig is gay? All the fact that Larry Craig went looking for gay sex in a bathroom means is that the mudslingers have more ammunition, which is antithetical to what we really need right now - actual cooperation and a recognition that we're not really all that different and we all have the same goal. Making a better America.

I apologize for the tirade.

 

[top gun]

vyo476;21100]

Seriously. I don't.

I'm just saying one thing was legal and one thing wasn't. In another example I don't equate having a girlfriend on the side as the same as paying for a prostitute. Ones a illegal financhal transaction. Ones a personal relationship.

We can have our personal opinions I guess but what Craig was planning to do in public in that restroom stall really does seem much worse to me than a guy having a girlfriend.

It isn't illegal. Immoral, though? When you're taking advantage of a position of power to solicit sexual activity...but of course, Monica was blowing Bill because of his good looks.

Now that's the kind of statement that is totally unfair. No one "took advantage" of anyone. Bill Clinton was the one with everything to lose... not Monica. Monica wasn't doing favors for Clinton to keep her job or anything even remotely close to that. She was enamored, and she was a willing participant in a fling that I have no doubt she thought was the coolest thing going at the time. She even made comments to that effect. And yes women found Clinton to be very appealing... even my mother always raved about how good looking he was. I'm a guy... I'm not the one to judge but the ladies really did like him.

And yay, Mr. Clinton's not a closeted homosexual. That's better for him than for us, though - what he went through had nothing to do with confusion over sexual identity, like what Mr. Craig is probably experiencing right now.

I don't disagree. I think Clinton was just being a guy with a wondering eye for the ladies. I'm sure he hated the political fallout and the embarrassment to his family... but you are absolutely right... Craig has much bigger fish to fry.

I know tons of people who, when put under heavy social pressure, renounced their homosexuality. That kind of social pressure is absolutely terrible...but I guess Mr. Craig wasn't under any pressure at all to say he wasn't actually gay, right?

I have know idea. I know there were accusation in his past with pages etc. but I don't really know. What I do know is he at the very least did want to experiment with gay public restroom sex. That's all I think we really know for sure.

You're convicting him for lying about his sexuality. That just doesn't fly with me.

Well I don't know. If I had to bet... I'd say he's been lying about his gay tendencies all along. People don't usually just start in a public restroom let alone get caught their first time out the gate. And I think if he is gay then he's done a terrible thing being so outspoken and hard line against exactly what he is.

You're jumping on his back. Or else "He's faked being straight to get elected... was arrested and pled guilty to a gay related act... and now says Oh, he's straight again" isn't a personal attack.

I... don't think so. Isn't that what happened. He ran for office as an anti-gay crusader... he WAS caught trying to solicit gay restroom sex and he chose to pled guilty to the reduced charge for that... now after the plea goes public he drags his wife out and has one press conference after another saying I'm not gay, never was gay.

I don't know what else to make of it. It's contradictory from stem to stern.

With all the pressure the guy's under...is it any wonder he's lying about being gay? And don't dump this all on the Republicans. Do you suppose John Edwards, with all of his religious North Carolinian constituents, would have made it to the Senate if it had come out that he was gay - or, as you're claiming is possible for Democrats but not Republicans, if he'd admitted as much from the start?

Hey I'm with you the guys under pressure.

Would it be easier for their homosexuality to be accepted by the Democratic Party?

Yes.

Personally, I don't think anything short of a capital offense by a member of our government, or cases of governmental misconduct, ought to be made public. So what if Larry Craig is gay? All the fact that Larry Craig went looking for gay sex in a bathroom means is that the mudslingers have more ammunition, which is antithetical to what we really need right now - actual cooperation and a recognition that we're not really all that different and we all have the same goal. Making a better America.

I mostly don't disagree. The problem is that the Republicans CHOSE to ride that holier than thou horse into the political game for their own power. It's the "don't throw the first stone" rule to some extent... isn't it?

I apologize for the tirade.

No apology needed... I appreciate hearing your position.

 

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[top gun]

Seriously... What is the new deal with Larry Craig?

He's in... he's out. He's uses gay bathroom sex solicitations signals that are well known to the police... proclaims I'm not gay. He pleads guilty so some of the charges would be dropped others reduced... months later he hires an attorney to try and turn back time???????????????

I mean seriously unless he can also become Superman (I would say something about the tights but not goin' there) in the episode where he flies around the world backwards so fast that he turns back time... The case is OVER when you plead guilty.

If not can ya imagine the court backlog if after every conviction the criminal said... Hey I don't want that punishment, I want a do over.

COME ON LARRY... you're just making things worse for yourself, your family and your political party (because all the original charges would be back on the table + all the publicity. Let it go and fade away.

 

[Reliant]

Seriously... What is the new deal with Larry Craig?

He's in... he's out. He's uses gay bathroom sex solicitations signals that are well known to the police... proclaims I'm not gay. He pleads guilty so some of the charges would be dropped others reduced... months later he hires an attorney to try and turn back time???????????????

I mean seriously unless he can also become Superman (I would say something about the tights but not goin' there) in the episode where he flies around the world backwards so fast that he turns back time... The case is OVER when you plead guilty.

If not can ya imagine the court backlog if after every conviction the criminal said... Hey I don't want that punishment, I want a do over.

COME ON LARRY... you're just making things worse for yourself, your family and your political party (because all the original charges would be back on the table + all the publicity. Let it go and fade away.

These folks are not noted as being the sharpest tools in the shed (not to be construed as calling anyone a pedophile), but he seems bent on making even more trouble for himself. Too bad Bush can only give a Presidential Pardon for Federal offenses or Larry would have nothing to worry about.

 

[top gun]

These folks are not noted as being the sharpest tools in the shed (not to be construed as calling anyone a pedophile), but he seems bent on making even more trouble for himself. Too bad Bush can only give a Presidential Pardon for Federal offenses or Larry would have nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately truer words have probably never been spoken my friend. I still can't believed Libby walked without a day in jail.