Is homosexuality a choice or is it genetic?

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Are ideological, religious, and political leanings genetic, or are they a choice? Are we pre-disposed to view the world a certain way? Is there any proof that such things are a choice, or any way such an idea could be proven or disproven??

People sometimes change their political views just as they sometimes change their sexual orientation. The former is common while the latter is more rare.

But the fact that they CAN be changed demonstrates that they are not 100% genetic, like a drive or an instinct that cannot be changed.
 
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People sometimes change their political views just as they sometimes change their sexual orientation. The former is common while the latter is more rare.

But the fact that they CAN be changed demonstrates that they are not 100% genetic, like a drive or an instinct that cannot be changed.

Unless, of course, one is 100% genetically bi-sexual.
 
My original posting elsewhere:

"Heterosexuals have made such a mess of both religious and civil marriages that gays couldn’t do worse."
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Wrong. In fact, statistics bear out that gay relationships have as much if not more incidents of domestic violence and "divorce" than heteros. Add to that one more negative dimension [and I've seen the fallout of this more times than once or ten] the utter confusion of sexual roles the children experience. Case in point I know of identical twins born to a woman who was married to a man and then seduced by a man-woman [butch dyke] who looked, dressed, acted and swaggered more like a man than most men I know. These twins mother divorced their father, went with the aggressive man-lesbian and raised these girls. The twins became disturbed, they would alternate roles between male and female. One twin would shave her hair short, wear boys clothes and talk in a deep voice. The other identical twin would dress up ultra feminine and talk in a high voice. Then they would switch roles every couple of months. It was heartwrenching. And because in our area [soon coming your way] homosexuality is "normal", not a soul could reach out to these girls without the danger of being called a bigot. So they are, today, adult women who moved to the Bay Area [go figure] and one is a butch and the other a fem. I forget which is which and which one settled on which role.

Needless to say, there goes the "innate" argument for homosexuality. These girls were identical twins. One now is a lesbian and one hetero. They were friends of my daughter before they started acting out strangely and the friendship grew distant.

By tiny increments this scenario will reach your town. The perverse will become normal. The confusion will tap the young. Those who cannot vote to determine their very own destinies. Those destinies are in the hands of the very adults who are duct-taped down by political-correctness and the constant drumming of the gay agenda...

I've spoken of these identical twins before here at "HOP" and apparently someone at another site thought it was the result of some tall tale or chain-story...Another insisted I had no backup for my reporting that domestic violence statistics are more grim for homosexuals even than heteros..

I responded thusly:

No, it's not a chain email story. It is the factual truth. We knew these girls. The lesbian couple raised these twins, another younger girl and then the mother [fem] one split from the butch one and hooked up with another man since and has had, I believe if memory serves, a boy who is much younger still.

A footnote is that that mother remains with her new husband, works with my daughter [under her actually, my daughter is her boss] and still openly lusts after women. She has hit on my daughter who grew up with her kids, is 20 years her JR. and openly lusts after very young, just barely "legal" women. I get to hear about her antics almost daily. Her perversion is causing issues at the workplace and my daughter vents about what was done to her twin friends by this woman and the "man-woman" [her name for the butch this woman was seduced by in the first place]. These girls were her friends after all. She used to spend the night over there once [yes, I allowed my daughter to stay over at a lesbian couple's house!]. Oh what a fun conversation it was explaining to an 8-year old why two women slept in the same bed, had [apparently from her accounts of a great racket at night coming from their bedroom] noisy sex with visiting children around, and why, when the two women professed to not be interested in men, one of them looked, dressed, walked, talked and acted more like a man than many my daughter had seen...

I had no answers then for her, nor do I today that would suffice for her "yes, but.." retorts and further questioning. The only conclusion I could offer her is that they were insane. That sanity had escaped them in the form of some unusual sexual fetish. What else could I tell her?

The account of the identical twins, I swear on my Grandmother's grave is totally and utterly true. One twin [the mother gleefully reports to my daughter] is a lesbian, butch and the other is straight and living with her boyfriend.

[as to domestic violence]

"Domestic violence in the GLBT community is a serious issue. The rates of domestic violence in same-gender relationships is roughly the same as domestic violence against heterosexual women. As in opposite-gendered couples, the problem is likely underreported. Facing a system which is often oppressive and hostile towards those who identify as anything other than "straight", those involved in same-gender battering frequently report being afraid of revealing their sexual orientation or the nature of their relationship.

Additionally, even those who attempt to report violence in their alterative relationship run into obsticles. Police officers, prosecutors, judges and others to whom a GLBT victim may turn to for help may have difficulty in providing the same level of service as to a heterosexual victim. Not only might personal attitudes towards the GLBT community come into play, but these providers may have inadequate levels of experience and training to work with GLBT victims and flimsy or non-existant laws to enforce on behalf of the victim.

Although much advancement has been made in the provision of services, the enforcement of the law, and the equality of protections available to those in GLBT relationships over the last decade, it is important for you to be aware of your rights and options as they relate to your attempt to escape an abusive relationship."
Source:http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/gay.shtml
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Given that the statistics bear reported cases of domestic violence as equal to hetero, and the expectation that homosexuals underreport due to fears of "outing", one can conclude the incidents of battery in homosexual relationships exceeds that of hetero. On top of the normal fears and shame of reporting you can add fear of outing.

And speaking of that, one of the forms of psychological battery amongst gays is the threat of forcible outing of the partner being battered against their will...

Hmmm....That reminds me of the film "Do Ask, Do Tell".

You don't need study upon study to ascertain if homosexuality is genetic. All you need is one set of identical twins. The AI industry supports that sexual preference not only is learned, but can be taught, crosswired onto other objects or genders. This falls directly in line with our observation of the lesbian couple and the twins they raised..

If genetic, both twins would either be gay or both straight. With one gay and one straight, we can, emphatically, conclude that homosexuality is not wholly innate if at all. And if it was innate, we could conclude, with these twins, that their original sexual preference can be miswired, conditioned or otherwise "trained" out of their natural preference. So, the behavioral theory wins in either case. In other words, the sexual preference of someone even if innate can be trumped by the environment.

And gays are seeking to normalize homosexuality via marriage...giving it a passing mark of normalcy in the social mileu...Monkey see, monkey do..

Now...

Do the math.. [or play Bridge, whichever..]
 
My original posting elsewhere:



I've spoken of these identical twins before here at "HOP" and apparently someone at another site thought it was the result of some tall tale or chain-story...Another insisted I had no backup for my reporting that domestic violence statistics are more grim for homosexuals even than heteros..

I responded thusly:



You don't need study upon study to ascertain if homosexuality is genetic. All you need is one set of identical twins. The AI industry supports that sexual preference not only is learned, but can be taught, crosswired onto other objects or genders. This falls directly in line with our observation of the lesbian couple and the twins they raised..

If genetic, both twins would either be gay or both straight. With one gay and one straight, we can, emphatically, conclude that homosexuality is not wholly innate if at all. And if it was innate, we could conclude, with these twins, that their original sexual preference can be miswired, conditioned or otherwise "trained" out of their natural preference. So, the behavioral theory wins in either case. In other words, the sexual preference of someone even if innate can be trumped by the environment.

And gays are seeking to normalize homosexuality via marriage...giving it a passing mark of normalcy in the social mileu...Monkey see, monkey do..

Now...

Do the math.. [or play Bridge, whichever..]

An anecdote involving only two subjects is hardly scientific proof of anything.
 
My original posting elsewhere:
I've spoken of these identical twins before here at "HOP" and apparently someone at another site thought it was the result of some tall tale or chain-story...Another insisted I had no backup for my reporting that domestic violence statistics are more grim for homosexuals even than heteros..
I responded thusly:
You don't need study upon study to ascertain if homosexuality is genetic. All you need is one set of identical twins. The AI industry supports that sexual preference not only is learned, but can be taught, crosswired onto other objects or genders. This falls directly in line with our observation of the lesbian couple and the twins they raised..
If genetic, both twins would either be gay or both straight. With one gay and one straight, we can, emphatically, conclude that homosexuality is not wholly innate if at all. And if it was innate, we could conclude, with these twins, that their original sexual preference can be miswired, conditioned or otherwise "trained" out of their natural preference. So, the behavioral theory wins in either case. In other words, the sexual preference of someone even if innate can be trumped by the environment.
And gays are seeking to normalize homosexuality via marriage...giving it a passing mark of normalcy in the social mileu...Monkey see, monkey do..
Now...Do the math.. [or play Bridge, whichever..]

The unfortunate thing is that with no scientific education you interpret the data to suit your opinion. This is what you have done all along quoting just one field of research and now you are doing it with the twin studies. The truth is that there is a correlation in excess of 2/3, 69% I think was the actual figure, and this is well within the parameters for a genetic trait. Had you actually watched the video that I posted you would have heard a researcher dealing with this very argument. But it's more important for you to remain ignorant and self-sure than it is to know the truth.

I certainly wonder what drives this vendetta. You have earned yourself the Rev. Fred Phelps Science and Humanities Award here at House of Politics, congratulations!
 
People sometimes change their political views just as they sometimes change their sexual orientation. The former is common while the latter is more rare.

But the fact that they CAN be changed demonstrates that they are not 100% genetic, like a drive or an instinct that cannot be changed.

I can guarantee you that if most American homosexuals lived in an Islamic culture, much fewer of them would ever show even the slightest signs of homosexuality. That shows it CAN be changed - through FEAR. Do we want that kind of situation in America? That is what existed in America 50-75 years ago, FEAR, in small towns like the one I grew up in. Most homosexuals hid in the closet, because they knew someone would bust their a** if they came out, in those days.
 
I can guarantee you that if most American homosexuals lived in an Islamic culture, much fewer of them would ever show even the slightest signs of homosexuality. That shows it CAN be changed - through FEAR. Do we want that kind of situation in America? That is what existed in America 50-75 years ago, FEAR, in small towns like the one I grew up in. Most homosexuals hid in the closet, because they knew someone would bust their a** if they came out, in those days.

What that shows is that it can be repressed. With enough fear you can force people to stop eating--that doesn't mean that they have changed into non-eating people.
 
I can guarantee you that if most American homosexuals lived in an Islamic culture, much fewer of them would ever show even the slightest signs of homosexuality. That shows it CAN be changed - through FEAR. Do we want that kind of situation in America? That is what existed in America 50-75 years ago, FEAR, in small towns like the one I grew up in. Most homosexuals hid in the closet, because they knew someone would bust their a** if they came out, in those days.

I would not want people to be making these kinds of decisions based on fear either. If anyone makes decisions like this they should make them based on what they think is most functional for themselves and others.

When I look at homosexuality I do not see black and white: gay and straight. There are bisexuals, asexuals, and people who cross over the lines all the time.

I have no doubt at all that there are people who would have great difficulty changing their thoughts and feelings about sex (like all those married guys who want to be monogamous) and also that there are a few who would have no difficulty at all giving up certain behaviors because they had good reasons.
 
Unless, of course, one is 100% genetically bi-sexual.

If they were bi then what change happened? Did they change from liking men and women to liking woman and men?

Or did they change from being bi and liking only men to being bi and liking only women? If that is the case then how do you know they were bi to begin with since they liked only one gender?
 
Excellent points Dr. Who.

Yes, the malleability of sexuality is seen every single day, everywhere you look. Factually everyone is a blank slate in flux when it comes to sexuality. Within one person, different influences in their life can cause their sexuality to change many times over the course of a lifetime.

Therefore, sexuality is malleable and is the product of an innate drive being affected by environment.

The identical twins, who factually exist, and who each have a different adult sexual-preference are all you need to know this is true against the "innate" argument. Just one set of identical twins having a different sexual-preference is proof. All you need is one account and the "totally innate" argument flies out the window.
 
If they were bi then what change happened? Did they change from liking men and women to liking woman and men?

Or did they change from being bi and liking only men to being bi and liking only women? If that is the case then how do you know they were bi to begin with since they liked only one gender?

The fact that one's appetite changes at different times in their life is a well-known fact. Do you always eat the same foods? If you could eat one kind of food that supplied all the nutrients you need, would that satisfy you? I bet not. You know as well as I do that sexual appetites change over time, do you and your wife always do the same thing?

You and Siho are laboring under the weight of a "morality" issue around homosexuality which skews your perceptions.
 
Excellent points Dr. Who.

Yes, the malleability of sexuality is seen every single day, everywhere you look. Factually everyone is a blank slate in flux when it comes to sexuality. Within one person, different influences in their life can cause their sexuality to change many times over the course of a lifetime.

Therefore, sexuality is malleable and is the product of an innate drive being affected by environment.

The identical twins, who factually exist, and who each have a different adult sexual-preference are all you need to know this is true against the "innate" argument. Just one set of identical twins having a different sexual-preference is proof. All you need is one account and the "totally innate" argument flies out the window.

A falsehood told often enough soon gains the substance of truth--or at least that's the hope, right?
 
I don't think that it is genetic but it might be behavioral, possibly psychological, and in many cases too, a choice. I think each individual is different in that respect.
 
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Depends on whether you're talking about the orientation before or after birth.

Since environment trumps the innate in this respect, it doesn't really matter what orientation one is born under. In fact, science does provide evidence that we all are born with generic hormones that cause us to want to copulate... With what or whom may be molded as we fumble around through puberty.

David Carradine learned to "get off" apparently in a very self-destructive way..

And so on..
 
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