Iran test-fires missiles in Persian Gulf

[pocketfullofshells]

I generally agree with you, but the "holding their hand" phraseology is slightly disturbing. The US wants make sure the new iraqi democracy is stabilized enough to stand on its own for the good of the iraqi people. But there are OTHER reasons: to keep it from falling under the control of the Iranian theocracy to form a powerful new Mega-Iran which controls a huge percentage of world oil reserves, to keep it from becoming a new islamofascist base of operations, and to provide a successful model of democracy for the people trapped in the medieval backward states of the middle east.

only way to not have it get some major Iran power in Iraq, was to not Invade. its going to happen now, but I think you also overlook the fact that Iran and Iraqi shia have the same Religion, but they are also very different and there is a historic backlash against shia viewed to close to Iran, even with the Shia population at times in large part from the Iran Iraq war and Iraqi nationalism,

 

[BigRob]

so you dont want to bomb

you dont want to Tallk

you dont want Sanctions....

what is your great idea then?

just say it, you want to bomb Iran

We should talk, but not to Iran, to Europe, Russia and China.

Look at it this way. We have nothing that Iran wants, other than legitimacy for their President, which he gets by head of state talks (which Obama is all for). That is all we have that they want, what good does it do us to lose our only bargaining tool before anything even happens?

If we hold out and refuse to talk to them, their president will probably lose power as it. He is unpopular domestically because they have high inflation on food. He is attacked in the state run media as well. Much of the youth is pro Western, if we can get him to lose power, a more pro-western regime may emerge, or one that does not want the bomb.

Of course talking to them directly only prolongs his stay in power.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

We should talk, but not to Iran, to Europe, Russia and China.

Look at it this way. We have nothing that Iran wants, other than legitimacy for their President, which he gets by head of state talks (which Obama is all for). That is all we have that they want, what good does it do us to lose our only bargaining tool before anything even happens?

If we hold out and refuse to talk to them, their president will probably lose power as it. He is unpopular domestically because they have high inflation on food. He is attacked in the state run media as well. Much of the youth is pro Western, if we can get him to lose power, a more pro-western regime may emerge, or one that does not want the bomb.

Of course talking to them directly only prolongs his stay in power.

we have many things Iran wants, our money and we can often security as well if we made a non aggression pact or something.

 

[Libsmasher]

only way to not have it get some major Iran power in Iraq, was to not Invade.

The amnesia of the simple minded appeaser - that would have left Saddam in power.

its going to happen now, but I think you also overlook the fact that Iran and Iraqi shia have the same Religion, but they are also very different and there is a historic backlash against shia viewed to close to Iran, even with the Shia population at times in large part from the Iran Iraq war and Iraqi nationalism,

What you don't get is Iran doesn't give a rat's ass about those differences. With the US out of the picture, Iran, not at all constrained by the politics that had Bush fighting a PC war, will swallow them in one gulp.

 

[BigRob]

we have many things Iran wants, our money and we can often security as well if we made a non aggression pact or something.

Iran does not need our money with their massive oil reserves and the price of oil being what it is. We cannot assure Iran a security deal because any deal would have to involve Israel. Iran is not going to be able to make any deals with Israel if it wants any shot of being the regional hegemon.

Added to that, I do not think Israel is going to go for a deal, and even if we forced them into one, Iran would have to make the same deal with Israel, which their President is not going to be able to pull off domestically.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The amnesia of the simple minded appeaser - that would have left Saddam in power.



What you don't get is Iran doesn't give a rat's ass about those differences. With the US out of the picture, Iran, not at all constrained by the politics that had Bush fighting a PC war, will swallow them in one gulp.

Yea it would have, and Saddam was what it took to keep Iran from any power in Iraq. Sorry truth hurts.

And what you dont get is that it does nto matter what Iran cares about, if the people of Iraq don't want to be run buy Iran.