Implementation of Obamacare

If im recollecting properly it was that program that had half a trillion taken from it to be redirected to obamacare. Of course nobody seemed to care at the time but like so many other aspects of this wretched mess its being felt in the form of a pitbull sttached to the arse of so very many. But at least illegals will get free care and silly girls can abort their worries away on our dime.
 
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The TP will do more damage in the long and short run.

In the short run they are paralyzing congress; forcing Boehner's hand in creating fiscal damage to the global image of the US.

If, in the long run, the TP had their wishes, the US could possibly turn into a dystopia for the majority of the population. I have not seen them give a rational alternative to climate change, abortion issues, gun issues, poverty, and the growing distance between the top 1% and the 99% etc.

I find all this hysteria over the Tea Party almost funny. I bet you can't even tell me who they are, who their leaders are or what their membership is.
 
I'm impressed that you grasp that aspect of the gravity of the situation, which is ordinarily a concern of liberals. The TP has not put focus on the oligarchs.


I am intrigued. What is your idea on fixing the economy and still keep the social programs. I already told you mine. End subsidies of any sort. Cut the military expenses. Cut out foreign aid, etc.

Also the TP consistently push for lower taxation. That's insane. That does nothing to combat the wealthy oligarchs you mentioned unless we eliminate loopholes, increase the capital gains tax, etc. We do not need to tax corporations any further. We just need to close the loopholes. I'm sure you heard the Buffet/receptionist tax story.

We let financial institutions get away with larceny. Even if this story is half true, it is still idiocy
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20130221/OPINION04/702219911/0/SEARCH
In 2010, Bank of America set up more than 200 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands (which has a corporate tax rate of 0.0 percent) to avoid paying U.S. taxes. It worked. Not only did Bank of America pay nothing in federal income taxes, but it received a rebate from the IRS worth $1.9 billion that year. It is not alone. That same year, JP Morgan Chase operated 83 subsidiaries incorporated in offshore tax havens to avoid paying some $4.9 billion in U.S. taxes. Goldman Sachs operated 39 subsidiaries in offshore tax havens to avoid an estimated $3.3 billion in U.S. taxes. Citigroup has paid no federal income taxes for the last four years after receiving a total of $2.5 trillion in financial assistance from the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis. On and on it goes.

If the TP would concentrate on tax and subsidy problems, and eliminate their social platform distractions, I seriously would join the TP. They are currently heading in the wrong direction and shooting themselves in the foot as far as public opinion (ie, MSM).

I can agree with much of what you stated, but not all.

You think only liberals see the corruption of our economic system...really? I do not agree. It seems to me most liberals love the current situation and those same liberals, like you, condemn the TP.

I can agree with the cuts you listed, but it must go much deeper. It is time for the federal government to file for bankruptcy and eliminate all it's debts, as is done in the private sector and public sector. Time for the governmet to sell off it's numerous assets and pay off it's debts as is done in bankruptcy court.

This spells it out clearly...from the Great Murray Rothbard...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/murray-n-rothbard/repudiate-the-national-debt-3/
 
You think only liberals see the corruption of our economic system...really? I do not agree. It seems to me most liberals love the current situation and those same liberals, like you, condemn the TP.
I was referring to the oligarchy, not corruption. However, it does seems to me most liberals are ignorant of the ramifications of the fiscal crisis.
I can agree with the cuts you listed, but it must go much deeper. It is time for the federal government to file for bankruptcy and eliminate all it's debts, as is done in the private sector and public sector. Time for the governmet to sell off it's numerous assets and pay off it's debts as is done in bankruptcy court.

This spells it out clearly...from the Great Murray Rothbard...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/murray-n-rothbard/repudiate-the-national-debt-3/
A very impressive article, except for the last couple of paragraphs. Like any radical change, what are the hidden consequences? He glibly says, “let the chips fall where they may”. Maybe Rothbard covers it elsewhere, but it seems tongue-in-cheek to sell CIA Langly for condos in a government garage sale.

I think a safer approach (remember I'm a fiscal conservative) would be to construct a budget and tax system such that revenue always exceeds spending by X% and gradually reduce the debt. That would show the world that the US is moving in the right direction and give more confidence in the dollar. Meanwhile the US has a large debt, but it would eventually disappear. Yes I know: that approach would be very difficult in today's political clime. But it would be necessary whether we had a garage sale or not and it would be more palatable to politicians than a gov. garage sale.
 
I was referring to the oligarchy, not corruption. However, it does seems to me most liberals are ignorant of the ramifications of the fiscal crisis.

A very impressive article, except for the last couple of paragraphs. Like any radical change, what are the hidden consequences? He glibly says, “let the chips fall where they may”. Maybe Rothbard covers it elsewhere, but it seems tongue-in-cheek to sell CIA Langly for condos in a government garage sale.

I think a safer approach (remember I'm a fiscal conservative) would be to construct a budget and tax system such that revenue always exceeds spending by X% and gradually reduce the debt. That would show the world that the US is moving in the right direction and give more confidence in the dollar. Meanwhile the US has a large debt, but it would eventually disappear. Yes I know: that approach would be very difficult in today's political clime. But it would be necessary whether we had a garage sale or not and it would be more palatable to politicians than a gov. garage sale.

Agreed...America is controlled by an oligarchy who own the political class and the bureacracy entirely...exceptions for the few TP Rs, who you hate. There is little difference between the leadership of the Ds and Rs. One wants to continue and even expand government and deficit spending and the other wants to do the same, albeit more slowly.

Again I think you fail to comprehend the size of the problem. America has a debt of $17 trillion and unfunded liabilities of $60-$200 trillion, depending on who you talk to. As such, drastic measures are needed. Rothbard says the America government should default and liquidate it's assets (keep in mind, he wrote that decades ago). Then pay off the debt as best it can. Essentially eliminating the debt altogether and thus free up the American people from this disaster and enslavement. This can be done without implementing drastic cuts to social programs.

But...who says the sky is falling whenever someone says America should default? Of course, it is those in the Establishment, who want the status quo to continue.
 
Agreed...America is controlled by an oligarchy who own the political class and the bureacracy entirely...exceptions for the few TP Rs, who you hate. There is little difference between the leadership of the Ds and Rs. One wants to continue and even expand government and deficit spending and the other wants to do the same, albeit more slowly.

Again I think you fail to comprehend the size of the problem. America has a debt of $17 trillion and unfunded liabilities of $60-$200 trillion, depending on who you talk to. As such, drastic measures are needed. Rothbard says the America government should default and liquidate it's assets (keep in mind, he wrote that decades ago). Then pay off the debt as best it can. Essentially eliminating the debt altogether and thus free up the American people from this disaster and enslavement. This can be done without implementing drastic cuts to social programs.

But...who says the sky is falling whenever someone says America should default? Of course, it is those in the Establishment, who want the status quo to continue.
You are preaching to the choir. Oh yes, I comprehend the situation. I once wrote a mini-article about the national debt for a foundation:
If $1000 dollar bills still existed, a million dollars would be a pile just several inches tall. Daily expenditures were as tall as the Washington monument. I calculated the national debt would be a pile 916 miles tall at that time (a few years ago). Or roughly the distance from Orlando to Washington DC. Of course that has no economic significance, but it does illustrate to the ignorant just how much spending and debt we had at that time.

I'm more of a pragmatist than you. Rothbard's Libertarian utopia would have a 1 in a billion chance in selling it to congress. As I said, the idea of forcing a balanced budget with an X% excess is still necessary in any case and has only a 1 in a thousand chance. Maybe.
 
You are preaching to the choir. Oh yes, I comprehend the situation. I once wrote a mini-article about the national debt for a foundation:
If $1000 dollar bills still existed, a million dollars would be a pile just several inches tall. Daily expenditures were as tall as the Washington monument. I calculated the national debt would be a pile 916 miles tall at that time (a few years ago). Or roughly the distance from Orlando to Washington DC. Of course that has no economic significance, but it does illustrate to the ignorant just how much spending and debt we had at that time.

I'm more of a pragmatist than you. Rothbard's Libertarian utopia would have a 1 in a billion chance in selling it to congress. As I said, the idea of forcing a balanced budget with an X% excess is still necessary in any case and has only a 1 in a thousand chance. Maybe.

Rothbard was about as far from being utopian as anyone could be. He laid out the plan for repudiating the national debt. He never thought the oligarchs running the nation today would ever accept it.

There in lays the rub. The Oligarchy needs to be removed from power. That is the only way America will survive as a nation of laws with individual liberties and with free market captialism. But, few Americans know or accept this.

Our government, big business, Wall Street, banks, unions, pharma, big nonprofits, are all corrupt and all part of the crony capitalist system the oligarchs have put in place. The corruption exceeds all other nations in history. And when it falls, which it will, the damage will likely exceed anything ever known before. And your beloved social welfare programs will be a thing of the past.

The USA and the rest of the world are rapidly descinding back to the historic norm of two classes....one, the elites with all the wealth and power...and the other being the vast majority of people as serfs.

But you keep on hating the TP...even though it is the only organization demanding change...real change...not Big Ear's kind of change.
 
But you keep on hating the TP...even though it is the only organization demanding change...real change...not Big Ear's kind of change.
I am pretty sure the sheeple will continue to parrot whatever the messiah, via the MSM tells them. The sheeple are faithful without the ability to question why. Hasn't this already been proven with all the numerous non-sense postings here?
 
"What happened," said Roger, "is that investment banks and hedge funds created ever more arcane instruments which they could flog to one another in a completely false market. Because it was over the counter, in private, the regulators couldn’t see it. Then they could sell an inverted iceberg of bets on the likelihood of the original instruments defaulting. They were able to account a notional profit on the balance sheet on all this Alice in Wonderland crap and so pay themselves gargantuan bonuses."

Other conversations along the table were dying out as people began to sense drama or blood.

Veals smiled thinly. "I’m afraid it’s rather more complicated than that."

"Do you know what?" said Roger. "It really isn’t. It’s a fraud as old as markets themselves. The only difference is that it’s been done on a titanic scale. At the invitation of the politicians. Behind the backs of the regulators and with the dumb connivance of the auditors. And with the fatal misunderstanding of the ratings agencies."

"That’s a cute story," said Veals. "But financial life is more - "

"No, it isn’t," said Roger, his voice growing louder. "Do you know how high a million dollars in $100 bills would come up off the table tightly packed" I’ll tell you. Four and a half inches. And do you know how far a trillion reaches?"

"Yes. I can work it out." John Veals paused only for a moment. The whole table was now watching and listening as his fabled mental arithmetic went to work. "Seventy-one miles."

"Correct," said Roger. "That’s how much has been misappropriated or mislaid. And all of it will have to be paid back before the world can move on. Every inch of the tightly packed seventy-one miles. Over a period of - how long would you say? Five years? Ten? And it won’t be paid back by people like you, John, you or the bankers, because I don’t suppose you pay tax, do you?"

"I pay what I’m legally required to pay."

"I think we can take that as a no," said Roger. "And the misdemeanors of the bankers will be paid for by millions of people in the real economy losing their jobs. And in paper money, the trillion will be repaid in higher tax on people who have no responsibility for its disappearance. And the little tossers in the investment banks who’ve put away their two and three and four million in bonuses each year over ten years . . . They’ll hang it on to it all.. And they of course will be the only ones who won’t pay back a coin. Which is bloody odd when you come to think of it. Because really they ought to be in prison."

- Sebastian Faulks, A Week in December (2009)
 
Rothbard was about as far from being utopian as anyone could be. He laid out the plan for repudiating the national debt. He never thought the oligarchs running the nation today would ever accept it.

There in lays the rub. The Oligarchy needs to be removed from power. That is the only way America will survive as a nation of laws with individual liberties and with free market captialism. But, few Americans know or accept this.

Our government, big business, Wall Street, banks, unions, pharma, big nonprofits, are all corrupt and all part of the crony capitalist system the oligarchs have put in place. The corruption exceeds all other nations in history. And when it falls, which it will, the damage will likely exceed anything ever known before. And your beloved social welfare programs will be a thing of the past.

The USA and the rest of the world are rapidly descinding back to the historic norm of two classes....one, the elites with all the wealth and power...and the other being the vast majority of people as serfs.
Yes, yes, I agree. We already went through all that before.
But you keep on hating the TP...even though it is the only organization demanding change...real change...not Big Ear's kind of change.

We went through that before too. There is no point to keep going around in circles.

I don't hate the TP. I just want them to stick to the fiscal issues they are supposed to represent. If they want to endear liberals more, they will have to keep to that most important fiscal goal and leave abortion, religion, etc out of their speeches, and stop idolizing idiots such as Palin, Bachmann, etc.

I don't like a lot of the aspects of Obamacare either, but rather than tying that to the budget bill, and cause a fiscal panic, they should, for example, attach tighter campaign contribution laws to the budget bill and cause panic in the oligarchs as well. That will start limiting the staying power of the oligarchs and bring more sanity to congress. Fat chance of them doing that.
 
"What happened," said Roger, "is that investment banks and hedge funds created ever more arcane instruments which they could flog to one another in a completely false market. Because it was over the counter, in private, the regulators couldn’t see it. Then they could sell an inverted iceberg of bets on the likelihood of the original instruments defaulting. They were able to account a notional profit on the balance sheet on all this Alice in Wonderland crap and so pay themselves gargantuan bonuses."

Other conversations along the table were dying out as people began to sense drama or blood.

Veals smiled thinly. "I’m afraid it’s rather more complicated than that."

"Do you know what?" said Roger. "It really isn’t. It’s a fraud as old as markets themselves. The only difference is that it’s been done on a titanic scale. At the invitation of the politicians. Behind the backs of the regulators and with the dumb connivance of the auditors. And with the fatal misunderstanding of the ratings agencies."

"That’s a cute story," said Veals. "But financial life is more - "

"No, it isn’t," said Roger, his voice growing louder. "Do you know how high a million dollars in $100 bills would come up off the table tightly packed" I’ll tell you. Four and a half inches. And do you know how far a trillion reaches?"

"Yes. I can work it out." John Veals paused only for a moment. The whole table was now watching and listening as his fabled mental arithmetic went to work. "Seventy-one miles."

"Correct," said Roger. "That’s how much has been misappropriated or mislaid. And all of it will have to be paid back before the world can move on. Every inch of the tightly packed seventy-one miles. Over a period of - how long would you say? Five years? Ten? And it won’t be paid back by people like you, John, you or the bankers, because I don’t suppose you pay tax, do you?"

"I pay what I’m legally required to pay."

"I think we can take that as a no," said Roger. "And the misdemeanors of the bankers will be paid for by millions of people in the real economy losing their jobs. And in paper money, the trillion will be repaid in higher tax on people who have no responsibility for its disappearance. And the little tossers in the investment banks who’ve put away their two and three and four million in bonuses each year over ten years . . . They’ll hang it on to it all.. And they of course will be the only ones who won’t pay back a coin. Which is bloody odd when you come to think of it. Because really they ought to be in prison."

- Sebastian Faulks, A Week in December (2009)
Sounds like an interesting book. One reviewer didn't like it because there was too much digression into financial discussions. That however is the only reason I would read the book. I saw the “pile of cash” representation of debt about 2 yrs before the book. I wonder if Faulks got the idea from the same source.
 
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Things that will make Lag say DAMN!

With voting just days away in NJ Senate race, Tea Party arrives to lend support

Tea Party star Sarah Palin is lending her support to the Republican candidate in the final days of the tightening race in New Jersey for Senate seat, telling voters this weekend the "eyes of America" are on the state.

The race between front-running Democratic candidate Cory Booker, the Newark mayor, and Republican Steve Lonegan has narrowed ahead of Wednesday's voting, with Booker’s lead shrinking from as much as 27 percentage points in June to just 13 points, according to an averaging of polls by the website RealClearPolitics.

The race is for the open seat of Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg, who died in June. And its outcome will help decide whether Democrats can retain control of the Senate in 2014.



 
Want really happened Mr. Lagboltz was a failure of the government to exercise proper regulatory control over mortgage banking and securities. Between 2004 and 2006, banks and mortgage lenders made millions of high-risk, subprime loans (i.e., 100% "piggyback" loans with adjustable interest rates "ARMs", etc.) to borrowers that were unqualified for conventional financing and without due-diligence requirements for collateralization on the assumption that the real estate market could only go up and no one could lose. These loans were then packaged and sold as debt securities on the financial markets worldwide.

Then, predictably, things took a downturn. The interest rates on these loans went up, and borrowers started defaulting on their loans, precipitating a rash of foreclosures across the country. By August 2007, Countrywide Home Loans, the largest mortgage lender on the planet, was on the verge of bankruptcy; but was bought out by Bank of America in an effort to prevent its own equity position in the company from being extinguished. (Not a good move as it turned out, for in taking over Countrywide, it had to assume a large portfolio of very bad loans.) The disintegration, however, continued with millions of defaults followed by foreclosures as real estate values plummeted. This in turn precipitated bank failures, including Indymac Bank (the largest since the crash of 1929), which was followed by the collapse of some of the biggest investment firms like Bear Sterns, Morgan Stanley, and Lehman Brothers (the biggest bankruptcy in history), the federal "conservatorship" of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and finally the outright takeover of AIG. It had a cascading effect necessitating a government bailout with taxpayer funds just to stabilize the financial markets and prevent widespread, systemic economic chaos.

It was the fault of deregulation. The FDIC, FSLIC, HUD and FTC failed in regulating the banks and mortgage lenders, and the SEC had failed to exercise proper oversight of the sale of mortgage-backed securities. (Even Alan Greenspan was forced to admit that he was wrong in thinking that the market could be left to its own devices.) And, it will happen again because the Congress lacks the political will to establish regulatory control over banking and financial markets. Dodd-Frank - which the banking lobby is working night and day to have Congress repeal - is not the answer. Regulation must be measured, but effective; and not so heavy-handed as to stifle economic growth. To work, there must at least be a level playing field, which requires more transparency that will promote value over speculation. Also, there needs to be accountability: if there are no penalties for failure - if executives are rewarded for running their companies aground - there is no incentive to exercise restraint over irresponsible action.
 
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Want really happened Mr. Lagboltz was a failure of the government to exercise proper regulatory control over mortgage banking and securities.
......
Agreed. An interesting book on that subject is "Greenspan's Fraud, How Two Decades of His Policies Have Undermined the Global Economy" by Ravi Batra. (2005)
 
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